Why do some UK investors prefer Eagles & Maples to Britannias when Eagles & Maples are subject to CGT

[MJ5050]

I'm totally new to this and have been carrying out a fair bit of research into buying silver coins over the weekend. I've come across a few UK investors who favour American Eagles and Canadian Maples over and above Britannias. However, I would have thought that Britannias are a better investment as they are not subject to CGT. Are Eagles and Maples a better investment as they are more desirable and likely to be easier to resell than Britannias?

While I appreciate most investors won't be affected by CGT at the moment I read a few months ago that there are potentially plans to lower CGT to only £1k so if this happens this could affect more sellers of Eagles and Maples.

I guess my best plan is to buy a few of each of the 3 coins but basically I'm quite curious as to why some UK investors place Eagles at the top of their list when as a newbie, the CGT aspect points to Britannias being the best buy.

[Paul]

CGT wont apply to the vast majority of folk 

£12,300 is your annual allowance this tax year

It is not what you sell them for as a whole it is only the profit you make on them

So say for the sake of simple maths you made £1 per oz profit 

How many folk are sat on x12,300oz at home ?

Who would liquidate x12,300oz at once ?

If yo knew CGT is there, you would sell x12,300oz in March on tax year and then x12,300oz the following month in April

If you have a spouse you have allowance then to use

Lastly, if you are sat on x12,300+oz at home you will have paid totally over the odds for physical and the likes of goldmoney, bullionvault or SLV would have been a better deal for you in the first place

[Nugget]

You can also time disposals over tax years if needed. Sell some 4th April and some 7th April for example. 

You can walk into the shop, gift half your stack to wife (husband, etc) and then sell making use of their CGT allowance also.

Ways around it with some planning.  

Edited February 7, 2021 by Nugget

[Pete]

@Paul summed it up nicely.
Currently with an annual CGT allowance of £12,300 you would need to be making one heck of a profit.
Once Covid has been put into the background, many taxes will have to rise and maybe CGT is one that will be hit quite hard but then politicians tend to look after themselves so this is more of a tax on the well heeled folks so might not be so bad - more of a gesture I reckon.

As for stacking Maples and ASE's over Brits I am not so sure there is much to compare.
Some stackers perhaps for historic reasons prefer one bullion coin over another.
Many will simply look for the best prices.
I like ASEs because they tend to be a very high quality strike and don't show up all the scuffs and dings of .999 Brits.
The new Maples look nice with their radial background but what to buy is generally down to price and availability.
Surprising though selling Brits do seem to achieve higher prices perhaps for the reasons you state even if not really applicable to most.

[MJ5050]

Many thanks for the advice, much appreciated. I'm probably over-analysing things too much to be honest! I guess as I'm new to this, I'm afraid of potentially buying the wrong thing but I'm sure I'm needlessly overcomplicating things.

As you say, CGT doesn't really represent a tangible problem. I'm probably best to buy a mixture of Eagles, Maples and Britannias. 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, MJ5050 said:

Many thanks for the advice, much appreciated. I'm probably over-analysing things too much to be honest! I guess as I'm new to this, I'm afraid of potentially buying the wrong thing but I'm sure I'm needlessly overcomplicating things.

As you say, CGT doesn't really represent a tangible problem. I'm probably best to buy a mixture of Eagles, Maples and Britannias. 

Don't limit yourself to just these 3 coins.
Maybe avoid "rounds" for now but any 999 silver coin with a face value is worth consideration.
 

[Alex944]

On 07/02/2021 at 14:19, MJ5050 said:

I'm afraid of potentially buying the wrong thing but I'm sure I'm needlessly overcomplicating things.

Especially if you are just starting with stacking, I really wouldn't worry about buying ''the wrong thing''. If anything, I'd encourage new stackers to buy whatever coins they think are cool, nice, interesting, whatever. Great way to nurture your interest and get exposed to different type of coins / series / collections.

I found that after my first year of buying silver, in which I got about 60oz, I kinda had a feeling of the coins I enjoy and the ones I enjoy less. The things I enjoyed less I was able to sell for close to spot to other members on the forum and used that money to purchase more stuff that I knew I'd enjoy.

Even if you end up buying something you later realize you may not enjoy, it's still silver, it'll still have a value!

The one thing I would advise on is to stay clear from very high premium coins in the early stages. Think about (limited) proof coins or colorized coins, generally 1 or 2oz coins that go for about 5 - 10x their metal value. You may not be knowledgeable enough to know which coins may hold their premiums properly and end up being stuck with something that will be difficult to sell for a good price. 

Enjoy the journey, it's a really cool thing to have all these various designs in your stack when you are starting. Once you get more seasoned, you'll probably find you'll be drawn more to certain designs or series than others and you can just focus on that.

[Guest]

Re: CGT. If you're not a business, how does the HMRC know that you've sold PMs, assuming it's not a massive amount per transaction?

[Paul]

56 minutes ago, savoyard said:

Re: CGT. If you're not a business, how does the HMRC know that you've sold PMs, assuming it's not a massive amount per transaction?

if you are daft enough to tell then  more than one way skin a cat 

[HawkHybrid]

4 hours ago, savoyard said:

Re: CGT. If you're not a business, how does the HMRC know that you've sold PMs, assuming it's not a massive amount per transaction?

 

if it's not a massive amount then hmrc probably won't care as it's likely to be within your

yearly allowance. the problem comes if you need to raise funds for something like a deposit

on a house.

 

HH

[Grampy]

Maybe it has nothing to do with taxes......... maybe it is a matter of quality control and getting the vakue you are paying for. I got a 2021 monster box of silver Brits and 159 were bad to awful....and non returnable.  I never gat a bad Maple, Phil or Eagle in a monster box. See pic of the worst below! How did that one get out? And I was lucky enough to get 2 of these. Well done, RM.

[Paul]

1 minute ago, Grampy said:

Maybe it has nothing to do with taxes......... maybe it is a matter of quality control and getting the vakue you are paying for. I got a 2021 monster box of silver Brits and 159 were bad to awful....and non returnable.  I never gat a bad Maple, Phil or Eagle in a monster box. See pic of the worst below! How did that one get out? And I was lucky enough to get 2 of these. Well done, RM.

you might get a "details" grade, if you sent it off to NGC 

[Grampy]

Hi, Paul. Thanks for that info! I am just a doomsday stacker and not a collector. Can you point me in the right direction to do that? I have no idea of where to start. Thanks for any help you can give me.

[Paul]

17 minutes ago, Grampy said:

Hi, Paul. Thanks for that info! I am just a doomsday stacker and not a collector. Can you point me in the right direction to do that? I have no idea of where to start. Thanks for any help you can give me.

nnooooooo just keep it as it is, it'll only ever be worth melt for it in that state 

[modofantasma]

Appreciate its an older thread. Just bear in mind CGT rules could change too. If I were planning to move abroad and sell in a different country then I might prioritise that countries coin perhaps. 

[365DaysofSilver]

On 05/10/2021 at 16:03, Grampy said:

Maybe it has nothing to do with taxes......... maybe it is a matter of quality control and getting the vakue you are paying for. I got a 2021 monster box of silver Brits and 159 were bad to awful....and non returnable.  I never gat a bad Maple, Phil or Eagle in a monster box. See pic of the worst below! How did that one get out? And I was lucky enough to get 2 of these. Well done, RM.

I got a tube and the last 5 had scuffs on the queens face - looks like they hid them in the bottom of the tube. But they are not as bad as this, like you said crazy that it even lived to see the light! 

[slinkyjynx]

As with any investment I think it’s always good to diversify. Grab some AMEs, maples, kangaroos etc to go along with your staple Britannia’s. At the end of the day an ounce of silver is an ounce of silver but having a variety can’t hurt, especially when some coins demand more of a premium over others. 

[365DaysofSilver]

5 hours ago, slinkyjynx said:

As with any investment I think it’s always good to diversify. Grab some AMEs, maples, kangaroos etc to go along with your staple Britannia’s. At the end of the day an ounce of silver is an ounce of silver but having a variety can’t hurt, especially when some coins demand more of a premium over others. 

100% agree with this. This is my latest order - 100oz nice & diversified. (The unopened tube at the back is ASE’s)

[Crabby]

I love eagles and libertads the quality and design are simply gorgeous, brittanias don’t seem to have the same quality.

happily pay a touch more for that.

my next buy is going to be those fab dragon bars can’t seem to find any stock anywhere tho 

any help with source would be appreciated