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Junior

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  1. I was planning on attaching a video of me ping testing the fake silver coins and a real silver coin. The forum only allows like 9.7 MB and the 19 second video I took was like 24 MB. I would upload a video if someone knows how to lessen the video quality so the video file is not so big.
  2. Quick question for you Lawrence, have you ever come across a coin (collectors or bullion) that turned out to be fake, but it was such a good fake that it passed multiple tests with ease?
  3. You are absolutely right. Something like a large bar could have a fake centre to it and the XRF will only do the surface. Multiple tests are required to determine authenticity of different sized products. On large bars specifically, some dealers will drill into the them in multiple spots and check the core. Obviously not something to do on a kilo coin, but other tests can be done for collector products.
  4. This is very true! An XRF is out the window expensive! That’s why I’m a really good customer of my local bullion dealer. 😆
  5. Spotting Counterfeit Silver Coins By: Jordan Graveline When I first got into coin collecting, I was nervous about whether I would have trouble spotting genuine silver coins from fake coins. Of course everyone tells you to buy from a reputable seller such as a certified dealer, but what if a particular coin you require for the completion of a set is for sale by someone unknown to you? Your options are either buy it or do not buy it. If you decide to risk dealing with someone unknown, it pays to have a little knowledge on how to spot a fake so you don’t get taken advantage of. For this post, I will be using the Morgan silver dollar as this is one of my favourite coins. If you are collecting a different silver coin however, these tests are still useful for them as well. The major difference is you will have to know the specific specifications of whichever silver coin you are dealing with in order to assist you in determining the genuine coins from the fakes. The following tests can be used in a wide variety of scenarios to help determine a genuine silver coin from a fake. In any case, it is recommended to use multiple tests because many test results can point to a coin being legit, but it only takes one test to prove a fake. 1). The magnet test - Silver is not magnetic and therefore will not stick to a magnet. The composition of the Morgan dollar is 90% silver and 10% copper. A genuine Morgan will not stick to a magnet. 2). The dimensions test - This is coin specific. The specifications for a Morgan dollar are: Diameter: 38.1 mm Thickness: 2.4 mm 3). The weight test - This is coin specific. The Morgan dollar weighs 26.73 grams (Uncirculated). *** Note *** With both the dimensions and weight tests, coins will have slight variance depending on the amount of wear (circulation). Certain tolerances are allowed and should be individually referenced depending on the coin. 4). The ping test - Silver has a very distinct and consistent sound when lightly struck and allowed to ring. Some people flip the coin as if to do a coin toss and listen closely to the sound of the ringing it makes. Others may softly balance the coin on their finger and tap the side of the coin lightly using another coin. Be careful not to scratch a coin that might be a collectible. Some people might opt out from doing this test until they have trained their ear to recognize the sound of silver ringing. 5). Discrepancies and/or surface remarks - Here you are scrutinizing any irregularities that seem out of place or consistencies that seem legit. You may want to note the circulated or uncirculated condition of the coin. This can assist you in explaining variances in the dimensions and/or weight of the coin. 6). Precious Metals Analyzer - There are several devices that coin dealers will use to assist in determining whether a coin/bar contains the correct amount of precious metal content and consistency all the way through the coin/bar. One such device is a Sigma Metalytics Verifier and another is an XRF (X-ray fluorescence) Analyzer. I am not too familiar with how these two devices differ (other than price), but essentially both are able to deduce the metal content (purity) of a coin or bar. Usually these devices are too expensive for the common person, but coin dealers invest in them so they do not lose money when buying coins/bullion from customers. 7). The acid test - When nitric acid is applied to genuine silver, the resulting chemical reaction will change the acid solution to red or brown reddish. When applied to a fake silver coin, the acid solution typically turns blue since there is very little silver content in the coin. This test is done on silver bullion as bullion is priced using the spot price of silver and does not typically carry any collector’s value. A silver coin that may have collector’s value can be damaged by this test and is not typically done. There are other tests that can assist in determining genuine silver coins. This was just a sample of what is at your disposal as a silver coin collector or silver stacker. Below I have composed a table containing data from an experiment. Many of the tests mentioned above were used on several coins. 1878-CC 1887-O 1893-CC 1894-S 1895 1896 1899-S 1900-O Magnetic Test (Does it stick) No No No No No No No No Dimensions Genuine Morgan Diameter = 38.1 mm Thickness = 2.4 mm 38.0 mm 2.7 mm 37.9 mm 2.2 mm 38.0 mm 2.5 mm 38.1 mm 3.0 mm 37.9 mm 2.4 mm 37.9 mm 2.4 mm 38.0 mm 2.4 mm 37.9 mm 2.4 mm Weight Genuine Morgan = 26.73 grams 25.4 grams 24.8 grams 23.8 grams 26.2 grams 22.3 grams 26.6 grams 23.4 grams 26.7 grams The Ping Test High pitch with weak/dull resonance. Short vibration. High pitch with strong/clear resonance. Long vibration. High pitch with weak/dull resonance. Short vibration. High pitch with weak/dull resonance. Short vibration. High pitch with weak/dull resonance. Short vibration. High pitch with strong/clear resonance. Long vibration. High pitch with weak/dull resonance. Short vibration. High pitch with strong/clear resonance. Long vibration. Discrepancies Or Surface Remarks 1) Wider than normal spacing in the reeding. 2) Spatter on five stars near the chin. 1) Heavily circulated. 2) Surface very smooth. 3) Details consistent with FR02 Grade (Fair). 1) Wider than normal spacing in the reeding. 2) Mid-upper section of the right wing is incomplete. 3) Feels very light weight. 1) Wider than normal spacing in the reeding. 2) The ‘1’ in 1894 looks exceptionally wide. 3) Looks noticeably thicker than most Morgan dollars. 1) Wider than normal spacing in the reeding. 2) Slight copper hue near the date. 3) Double headed (Not a known mint error). 4) The font size on the date is smaller than normal. 5) Feels very light weight. 1) AU Details 2) Even wear 1) Wider than normal spacing on the reeding. 2) Green copper corrosion on the reeding. 3) Spatter near ‘U’ & ‘I’ in ‘UNITED’ 4) Feels very light weight. 1) XF/AU details 2) The coin is nearly the original weight despite obvious wear. 3) At 31.5x magnification, a double linear depression can be seen ahead of the ‘D’ in ‘DOLLAR’. XRF Analyzer Ag = 6.72% Ag = 90.11% Ag = 6.16% Ag = 5.89% Ag = 4.32% Ag = 89.97% Ag = 5.22% Ag = 90.36% Conclusions Fake Genuine Fake Fake Fake Genuine Fake Vintage Counterfeit? Using the data from the chart above, discrepancies can be found among the fake Morgan Dollars that make them stand out from the genuine Morgan Dollars. One such discrepancy is the weight of the coin vs. the dimensions of the coin. As seen with the 1895 and the 1899-S fakes, when the dimensions are within specification, the weight of the coin comes in underweight. On the other hand, looking at the 1878-CC and the 1894-S fakes, the weight of the coins are almost on spec (given the circulation). However, the dimensions of these two fakes, specifically their thicknesses, are grossly over what a genuine Morgan Dollar measures. The last remark I want to make is on the final coin in the chart; the 1900-O. This coin showed wear equivalent to the higher end of extremely fine (XF) or possibly the lower end of almost uncirculated (AU). With this type of wear in mind, the coin still weighed a miraculous 26.7 grams. This is only 0.03 grams away from the weight of a newly minted Morgan Dollar. While I am not an expert on the subject, there is an explanation for a coin such as this. I believe this coin could be a Vintage Counterfeit dating back to between the early 1900s and World War I. It is around this time that the free-market cost of the silver content in a Morgan Dollar was around 45 cents. In theory, one could have spent a dollar and purchased enough silver to create two dollars. With the low cost of silver during that time period, it would have been possible to mint a Morgan Dollar containing the correct amount of silver without losing money. This would have been accomplished through a counterfeit die which would have been cast using a genuine Morgan Dollar. The now counterfeit die can be used to make very close replica Morgan Dollars, which can be passed along through circulation and no one is the wiser. The very last picture posted shows a double linear depression on the 1900-O just before the ‘D’ in ‘DOLLAR’. Depressions such as these are the result of raised lumps on the die and not from circulation or from contacting other coins. Pictures:
  6. Not sure if this will show up the same as on an iPhone, but my hope (not prediction) is… One 🏠 per 🪙 😆
  7. Junior

    Best silver memes

    The Canadian government got rid of our penny almost ten years ago. They said it costed 1.6 pennies worth of energy to make one penny. And our pennies weren’t even copper back then! They were steel with 3% copper coating! Anyway, got a bunch of older Canadian pennies pre-1996 which are 98% copper. Probably worth several ‘pennies’ per penny for the copper content alone.
  8. @sixgun You are right on several things. I am not ready for a USD collapse, but that doesn't mean I'm not ready for a silver price rise into true value. Do I have enough to sustain me and my family for a duration of civil unrest and a period of transition? Well that could very well depend on the length of such transition, but the short answer is probably no. I have had the pleasure of seeing one 50% increase from when I first got into stacking silver and I guess I just can't stand to see everything else go up throughout the decades faster than silver responds to the rise. But everyone I talk to seems to have the same cool/laid back trust with silver. Patience they say. I guess we're all on the same train and I'm the annoying kid saying, "are we there yet?" a hundred different times LOL 😂
  9. Might of even been thinking about silver contacts that were gold plated 🤔
  10. You are correct. I think I was thinking back to an old university lecture. Thought I recalled silver as being second, but after a quick double check, you are right. Silver actually is the top conductor.
  11. Would I like the price to remain low so I can hoard away as much as I thought I needed? Sure. Who wouldn’t? But on the flip side, what if silver remained where it’s at indefinitely? Shouldn’t we want the price to rise? Look at the 1980 high, $50 USD! Considering inflation, shouldn’t silver be higher? Certainly! It’s currently cheap! Considering all the new advancements in technology and the fact that we need more and more silver to make those advancements more efficient, shouldn’t silver be higher? Yes! So while I see that it is advantageous for us stackers to have the lowest prices imaginable on such a hot and useful commodity, when does the price realization mechanism come into play? Not attacking any opposition on the joy of low prices being a Godsend, more just inquiring on when true value of such a useful element is realized.
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