Are people running out of money?

[Silverman2U]

I have noticed a recent change in the ride in PMs.
 

1) They tend to be not snapped up as fast. 2) Many tubes of silver Brits dropping into the forum. 3) Royal Mint is issuing 1/40oz proof lunar year of dragon (£99) coins as more of their clients have requested them they advised me.

Are we entering a world of less liquidity? Less spending on PMs? People now need the moment to pay increased mortgages due to 6% hikes? 
 

Is more fractional gold with 1/4oz, sovereigns, 1/10, 1/20 and 1/40oz with their higher premiums going to be increasing more liquid with yet even larger spreads between buy and sell prices?
 

I love a proof 1oz of gold but the market for buyers seems to be an ever decreasing one with small fractional gold bullion increasing? 
 

What is everyone else’s thoughts? 

 

[modofantasma]

Are people running out of money?

Don't think so. 

Just shared this in another thread 

UK credit and lending figures miss forecasts as consumers increase savings

https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-and-announcements--/uk-mortgage-approvalslendingcredit--15997132.html

Consumer confidence is also on the rise if you look at the data from GFK 

https://www.gfk.com/press/consumer-confidence-up-three-points-to-19-in-january

In terms of bullion, dealer spreads have been narrower recently so buying here Vs dealers isn't necessarily saving anything plus the associated risks of dealing with individuals. 

Gold price is relatively high, I'd speculate that some buyers anticipate it will fall and are waiting or overbought in recent times anticipating a larger rise. 

Perhaps stackers who still have personal debt or mortgages are prioritising paying some of this down before their fixed terms end or since they have ended? 

As for silver not sure 

[BLOOMMAN101]

Number of Britons with ZERO spare cash at the end of the month surges

• 21% of households at no cash left over at the end of the month in 2023
• Nationwide says average UK monthly bills have risen by 63% since 2021

By JANE DENTON

 

 

 

The percentage of people with no spare cash at the end of each month nearly doubled between 2022 and 2023, findings from Nationwide Building Society suggest. 

The percentage of households with zero cash left at the end of the month rose from 11 per cent in 2022 to 21 per cent in 2023.

More than one in five, or 22 per cent, of households have less than £100 going spare at the end of the month, compared to just 13 per cent in 2021, Nationwide said.

The data reveals average monthly household energy bills increased by 63 per cent between 2021 and 2023, while monthly food and motor fuel costs have also increased by over 30 per cent.

Since 2021, average monthly mortgage repayments have jumped by 22 per cent, while average monthly rental costs have surged by 26 per cent, according to the research. 

Saddled with sky-high living costs, 69 per cent of households are more worried about their finances and capacity to cope with ever rising costs.

more

 https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-13023063/Number-Britons-ZERO-spare-cash-end-month-surges.html?ico=mol_desktop_home-newtab&molReferrerUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fhome%2Findex.html&_ga=2.128124687.2061082598.1703706283-1369817361.1699541858&_gl=1*3aeghy*_ga*MTM2OTgxNzM2MS4xNjk5NTQxODU4*_ga_XE0XLFFF16*MTcwNjY0MDE4OS43NzAuMC4xNzA2NjQwMTg5LjAuMC4w

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

The guys at the bottom of the pyramid (the bottom 5%) are basically destitute. Their choice is between eating and heating not between gold and silver

The lower middle classes have been squeezed. They have less free income to spend on holidays, new cars, home improvements or gold. I'd guess fractional gold and silver are their preference

The upper middle classes have seen very little change as these folks owned assets and were perhaps debt-free before the pandemic. If you own assets (property, gold, stocks, etc) and have low debt then inflation and rates don't mean a lot to you

The upper classes are richer than ever before

The trend is to add more to the destitute and lower middle class population and destroy the median and upper middle class folks, leaving only the upper class and the peasant, "own nothing and be happy about it"

Here's what the Royal Mint said in Jan 2024:

---------------------------------------------------------------

British Royal Mint sees record bullion demand in 2023 | Kitco News

The British Mint said that a record number of customers invested in precious metals products in 2023, increasing 7% compared to 2022. The Mint said that according to their customers, the need for safe-haven demand was a significant driver behind bullion purchases last year.

“Many global investors continue to move into precious metals investments to weather volatile financial markets,” the mint said in the press release.

Along with safe-haven demand driving markets, the British Mint said another major highlight from last year was an increase in digital gold sales as consumers bought smaller amounts of fractionalized gold.

The mint said 77% of customers bought bullion products smaller than the traditional one-ounce sizes. The 1-gram gold bar and one-tenth-ounce gold Britannia coin proved most popular in 2023.

The mint also said that its gold sovereign coin remained as popular as ever, and the silver Britannia continued to be its flagship bullion product, topping the most popular product list of 2023.

Looking ahead, the British Mint expects bullion demand to remain robust through 2024.

“The potential for central bank rate cuts in 2024 is boosting the gold and precious metals market, as the prospect of lower rates boosts demand for non-yielding assets. Traders and investors are increasingly pricing in a Fed rate cut some time in 2024, which could accelerate the price of gold alongside a weakening of the US dollar. The dual impact of this move could turbocharge gold beyond recent market highs, as recent geopolitical and economic uncertainty, alongside strong central bank gold buying, has kept precious metals markets elevated,” said Stuart O’Reilly, Market Insights Analyst at The Royal Mint.

Along with the shift in global central bank policies, O’Reilly said that geopolitical uncertainty should continue to support safe-haven demand as investors looking for protection from volatile markets.

------------------------------------------------------------

To answer your question it seems 1g, 1/10th Brits and the sovereign are the most popular purchases. 

[Petra]

Anyone on here buying gold/silver of any size and amount either on here or anywhere else hasn’t got too many problems 🤔🤹🏼‍♂️😮

Edited January 30 by Petra
add

[modofantasma]

8 hours ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

The mint said 77% of customers bought bullion products smaller than the traditional one-ounce sizes. The 1-gram gold bar and one-tenth-ounce gold Britannia coin proved most popular in 2023.

The mint also said that its gold sovereign coin remained as popular as ever, and the silver Britannia continued to be its flagship bullion product, topping the most popular product list of 2023.

Curious what the average orders are at RM for the customers buying fractional coins... 

Also

A hypothetical example but could their 1g bar be more popular than any 1 Oz coin due to the following

100 1g bars sell

90 1 Oz gold Brits 2023 sell

90 1 Oz gold Brits 2024 sell

90 1 ox gold king Arthur's sell

Then the 1g bar sold more than any other product but more 1 Oz gold coins sold than 1g bars

 

[Darr3nG]

11 hours ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

The mint said 77% of customers bought bullion products smaller than the traditional one-ounce sizes.

Because Jimmy messed up the pricing on 5g bars on Black Friday!!!

[Petra]

🤔1oz gold isn’t the traditional size coin or bar purchase in this household!🤔😮😁

[flyingveepixie]

23 hours ago, Silverman2U said:

I have noticed a recent change in the ride in PMs.
 

1) They tend to be not snapped up as fast. 2) Many tubes of silver Brits dropping into the forum. 3) Royal Mint is issuing 1/40oz proof lunar year of dragon (£99) coins as more of their clients have requested them they advised me.

Are we entering a world of less liquidity? Less spending on PMs? People now need the moment to pay increased mortgages due to 6% hikes? 
 

Is more fractional gold with 1/4oz, sovereigns, 1/10, 1/20 and 1/40oz with their higher premiums going to be increasing more liquid with yet even larger spreads between buy and sell prices?
 

I love a proof 1oz of gold but the market for buyers seems to be an ever decreasing one with small fractional gold bullion increasing? 
 

What is everyone else’s thoughts? 

 

I"ve been noticing this for quite a long time now. I sold a few coins last year in August and September as I needed the fiat to fund a trip,  sovs, double sovs and Brits, but I found them all very hard to shift, particularly the doubles and one-ouncers, and had to let them all go for only about 1% or less above spot.  I don't know why this should be, other than the increasing costs of everything else in life, or maybe it's just a buyers market with more people needing to sell to make ends meet, and buyers realising they can get better deals just by hanging on and waiting till the right coin comes along at a good price.

I also notice people tightening their belts in other areas too - I hardly get any offers of work these days for my little business, in spite of having a good sized customer base built up over more than 20 years, and I can only conclude that it's because no one has any money to pay me

Edited January 31 by flyingveepixie

[Coverte]

15 minutes ago, flyingveepixie said:

I"ve been noticing this for quite a long time now. I sold a few coins last year in August and September as I needed the fiat to fund a trip,  sovs, double sovs and Brits, but I found them all very hard to shift, particularly the doubles and one-ouncers, and had to let them all go for only about 1% or less above spot.  I don't know why this should be, other than the increasing costs of everything else in life, or maybe it's just a buyers market with more people needing to sell to make ends meet, with buyers realising they can get better deals just by hanging on and waiting till the right coin comes along at a good price.

I also notice people tightening their belts in other areas too - I hardly get any offers of work these days for my little business, in spite of having a customer base built up over more than 20 years, and I can only conclude that it's because no one has any money to pay me

All of the above items will sell, but you now need to choose the most appropriate platform for each category sale, then know how to drive traffic to the particular sales site.

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

9 hours ago, modofantasma said:

Curious what the average orders are at RM for the customers buying fractional coins... 

Also

A hypothetical example but could their 1g bar be more popular than any 1 Oz coin due to the following

100 1g bars sell

90 1 Oz gold Brits 2023 sell

90 1 Oz gold Brits 2024 sell

90 1 ox gold king Arthur's sell

Then the 1g bar sold more than any other product but more 1 Oz gold coins sold than 1g bars

 

They don't give a breakdown but if 77% are buying things smaller than 1oz, it's unlikely more 1oz gold coins were sold than 1g bars. I'd guess the 1g bars have outsold the 1oz coins by a factor of 10+. If 10 of the 1g bars are sold for every 1oz piece, there would still be almost triple the value in the 1oz pieces though. They don't say if those who buy 1oz also buy 1g but I doubt it. 

Are customers buying multiple 1g bars? Maybe but why would you buy five 1g bars at a higher premium than one 5g bar? Folks buy 1g as an entry point, something that's "cheap", so, IMHO it's unlikely those buying 1g bars are buying multiple 1g bars if lower premium products are available, including the 1/10th Brit

My guess is the folks buying 1g bars and 1/10th Brits are new entrants to precious metals and a lot of people have bought 1 or 2 and that's it. In previous years when new gold buyers came to The Royal Mint the inference is they bought larger pieces

The Black Friday pricing may have led to a gluttony on the 1g bars as well as the 5g, it certainly did on TSF 😂

It's great if lots of new people in the UK have started buying precious metals. After buying 1g and 1/10th maybe next time they get 5g, a sovereign, 1/4

I think most agree the trend is towards fractional gold. How much of that is due to new entrants, liquidity and affordability, is an interesting question. 

[Petra]

Trouble I had when I first started buying was having the patience to wait so I could then afford a full sovereign instead of a 1/10th or a 1g bar!🤔🤔

[Roy]

6 hours ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

It's great if lots of new people in the UK have started buying precious metals. After buying 1g and 1/10th maybe next time they get 5g, a sovereign, 1/4

Perhaps. I believe most folk are disappointed in their first purchase, and probably won't dabble again.

I remember being a trifle underwhelmed with my first sovereign, and the half sovereign after it...well I never!

It takes some time to appreciate real money.

😊

[Petra]

6 minutes ago, Roy said:

Perhaps. I believe most folk are disappointed in their first purchase, and probably won't dabble again.

I remember being a trifle underwhelmed with my first sovereign, and the half sovereign after it...well I never!

It takes some time to appreciate real money.

😊

Should have bought the magnifying glass first!🤔😮😁

[SidS]

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

16 hours ago, Roy said:

Perhaps. I believe most folk are disappointed in their first purchase, and probably won't dabble again.

I remember being a trifle underwhelmed with my first sovereign, and the half sovereign after it...well I never!

It takes some time to appreciate real money.

😊

I'm still shocked by how tiny sovs are! 

You're right about first impressions. I remember being distinctly unimpressed by the first cigarette I smoked. I wasn't too keen on beer or coffee either. They grow on you though, a bit like precious metals 😂

The first step is buying something. I waited for months doing research, watching spot price, before I bought my first gold. All pointless as I bought from Royal Mint and BBP, but hey, baby steps. Now I think in PM terms. A steak and a couple drinks is 2 ounces of silver. A couple of weeks in Spain is 5 sovs per person. All started with that first purchase

[Petra]

2 hours ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

I'm still shocked by how tiny sovs are! 

You're right about first impressions. I remember being distinctly unimpressed by the first cigarette I smoked. I wasn't too keen on beer or coffee either. They grow on you though, a bit like precious metals 😂

The first step is buying something. I waited for months doing research, watching spot price, before I bought my first gold. All pointless as I bought from Royal Mint and BBP, but hey, baby steps. Now I think in PM terms. A steak and a couple drinks is 2 ounces of silver. A couple of weeks in Spain is 5 sovs per person. All started with that first purchase

🤔😮look at you leading the high life!😮😮😁

[Roy]

21 hours ago, Roy said:

I remember being a trifle underwhelmed with my first sovereign, and the half sovereign after it...well I never!

This could be why folk stack silver- off the bat, you're dealing in ounces of metal, moving up to multi ounce bars and coins and, ultimately, KGs and 100 ouncers.

'An investment you can hold'

😇

[JamesH]

22 hours ago, Roy said:

Perhaps. I believe most folk are disappointed in their first purchase, and probably won't dabble again.

I remember being a trifle underwhelmed with my first sovereign, and the half sovereign after it...well I never!

It takes some time to appreciate real money.

😊

I remember how excited I was when I received my first purchase from the Royal Mint (yeah, I know. Have learnt since). Was 5 gold sovereigns. I’d thought long and hard about parting with £1,700 at the time. The rest as they say, is history 

[James32]

3 minutes ago, JamesH said:

I remember how excited I was when I received my first purchase from the Royal Mint (yeah, I know. Have learnt since). Was 5 gold sovereigns. I’d thought long and hard about parting with £1,700 at the time. The rest as they say, is history 

Can do £1750 posted...quick profit 📈 

[NGMD]

Simply put- people want to buy below spot and sell 20% above spot.
TSF are shrewd, know dealer prices and not in any hurry. Elsewhere- not so much.

[Sovhead]

1 hour ago, James32 said:

Can do £1750 posted...quick profit 📈 

£1800

[Leonmarsh]

On 01/02/2024 at 21:14, NGMD said:

Simply put- people want to buy below spot and sell 20% above spot.
TSF are shrewd, know dealer prices and not in any hurry. Elsewhere- not so much.

Wouldnt say people are shrewd there is a culture change on here for the worst, limited community, limited exchanges or swapsies just people want the lowest and frankly at time Insulting prices 

I had a message yesterday to sell my graded kroner MS64 at spot, a shrewd buyer would pay above that as the coin is worth over £250 all day long 

So not shrewd just rude never would that have happened on here a year ago 

[Petra]

7 minutes ago, Leonmarsh said:

Wouldnt say people are shrewd there is a culture change on here for the worst, limited community, limited exchanges or swapsies just people want the lowest and frankly at time Insulting prices 

I had a message yesterday to sell my graded kroner MS64 at spot, a shrewd buyer would pay above that as the coin is worth over £250 all day long 

So not shrewd just rude never would that have happened on here a year ago 

Sure you didn’t lose out on your coin, however, you do have a point. The old saying is, ‘if you don’t ask you don’t get..’ but there is a limit to that. I bought something yesterday and literally asked for a possible couple of quid off. Answer, no, no hassle, nice coin bought. I think if sometimes people didn’t go over the top when making offers they may have more success, but at the end of the day you don’t know what someone has paid and everyone is entitled to a bit!🤔😮

[Leonmarsh]

2 minutes ago, Petra said:

Sure you didn’t lose out on your coin, however, you do have a point. The old saying is, ‘if you don’t ask you don’t get..’ but there is a limit to that. I bought something yesterday and literally asked for a possible couple of quid off. Answer, no, no hassle, nice coin bought. I think if sometimes people didn’t go over the top when making offers they may have more success, but at the end of the day you don’t know what someone has paid and everyone is entitled to a bit!🤔😮

Exactly a limit and that is the difference in tsf of old and new people are happy to bum each other for a quid and postage