NEW St. George and the Dragon coin with Garter inscription

[Britannia47]

Time for another look at the real McCoy…….Perfection?!

 

[GoldDiggerDave]

28 minutes ago, tpcob303 said:

That is a long wait for delivery. Buy now, then the company will have to wait for these coins to arrive in HK where LPM is based and then wait for them to be dispatched from HK to you, plus the added bonus of VAT on arrival. 

Good things come to those who wait.  Or they can get them bigger silvers off me from the UK. 

28 minutes ago, tpcob303 said:

That is a long wait for delivery. Buy now, then the company will have to wait for these coins to arrive in HK where LPM is based and then wait for them to be dispatched from HK to you, plus the added bonus of VAT on arrival. 

Good things come to those who wait.  Or they can get them bigger silvers off me from the UK. 

[Agaupl]

1 hour ago, Britannia47 said:

Time for another look at the real McCoy…….Perfection?!

 

Look a bit too Italian for me tbh. 🤣

[SovereignBull]

1 hour ago, Britannia47 said:

Time for another look at the real McCoy…….Perfection?!

 

How much would a reasonable condition (fine, very fine) set me back

[Britannia47]

1 hour ago, SovereignBull said:

How much would a reasonable condition (fine, very fine) set me back

https://www.allcoinvalues.com/united-kingdom/1818-uk-crown-value2c-george-iii2c-lix.html
 

[Petra]

3 hours ago, Britannia47 said:

Time for another look at the real McCoy…….Perfection?!

 

😮great bit of toning! A lot of these around, however, finding one in a decent grade is a different matter! But hey … a circulating coin…. and now rather old🤔🤔

[Petra]

1 hour ago, SovereignBull said:

How much would a reasonable condition (fine, very fine) set me back

Try auction sites. Decent condition ones went this week for £65 to £80 hammer price🤔

[dvl]

Thanks @Britannia47 for sharing the link above.
 

I am curious to find out whether mintages are playing major role for the crowns value from that period?
 

e.g. 1820 (448k) being more valuable than 1819 (683k) because of the mintage figures or let’s say both 1820 and 1819 in EF condition, but the first one being with higher value because of the mintages?

I guess 1818 will be always with the highest value simply because it was the first year with Pistrucci’s masterpiece and lowest mintage (depends on condition).

Is £360 or more a good price for 1820 crown in EF condition? I have quickly checked around inc Ebay, but cannot find one for £318 as per the link above. 
 

Many thanks in advance

[Petra]

2 minutes ago, dvl said:

Thanks @Britannia47 for sharing the link above.
 

I am curious to find out whether mintages are playing major role for the crowns value from that period?
 

e.g. 1820 (448k) being more valuable than 1819 (683k) because of the mintage figures or let’s say both 1820 and 1819 in EF condition, but the first one being with higher value because of the mintages?

I guess 1818 will be always with the highest value simply because it was the first year with Pistrucci’s masterpiece and lowest mintage (depends on condition).

Is £360 or more a good price for 1820 crown in EF condition? I have quickly checked around inc Ebay, but cannot find one for £318 as per the link above. 
 

Many thanks in advance

There is lots for sale, just have a trawl around. Like when collecting antiques, if you can’t find or currently afford a top class version, then just go for the best you can find/afford. As long as you can still see detail on the coin they’re great.🤔

[westminstrel]

With buying old coins online, it’s hard to trust images unless you’re seeing them from a variety of different angles, and ideally, can also see a video of the coin.

Grades like EF / VF / whatever can be subjective, so if you’re paying a good amount of money, then always be prepared for disappointment.

This is all imo based on my limited experience.

[Petra]

7 minutes ago, westminstrel said:

With buying old coins online, it’s hard to trust images unless you’re seeing them from a variety of different angles, and ideally, can also see a video of the coin.

Grades like EF / VF / whatever can be subjective, so if you’re paying a good amount of money, then always be prepared for disappointment.

This is all imo based on my limited experience.

Unfortunately very true.🤔some auction site photos are awful and often they can’t be bothered to show both sides. This particular coin gets a lot of wear on the figure/horse and dragon🤔🤔

[paulmerton]

1 hour ago, Petra said:

Try auction sites. Decent condition ones went this week for £65 to £80 hammer price🤔

Decent condition is subjective - some people might expect that to cost several hundred quid.

Meanwhile I would have been very happy to win the £40 one I missed last week 🤣

[Wampum]

The George III Crowns are brilliant to collect you have the main;

1818 LVIII

1818 LIX

1919 LIX

1919 LX

2020 LX

Then within the series there is varieties such as star stop, Cinguefoil, or none, the "excuse😆" lettering can be different too, there are large LVIII and small LVIII (different LIX and LV also), and because the edge lettering was made up of parts for the closed collar, they are also mixed within the years. 

The 1819 over 20 seems to sell for more however this is one of the more common coins you can get, and within this there are at least four 19/20's that are easily found.

The below are just three of the 1818 LVIII coins that can be found (if you forget about the collars);

The first is 1818 over 8 , where you can see the broken tail of the original 8 just at the top.( Reverse is also different however the 8/8 is the easiest spot).

The Second and Third are the tail under and the tail over the Q of QUI, these can only be seen on a better quality coin, however you can still find out on a worn coin by other small differences.

1919 seem to have the most differences, the last picture shows the re-working of the small tail from a 1818 Reverse die. I had a whole series of the GIII Crown and these were only four of the varieties I had   

(These are only my opinions through collecting them, so you can use it as a reference only, as I'm not the sharpest tool in the box. Then like a fool selling the whole collection and  regretting it ever since.              

 

1818/8

 

 

1818 Over Tail

 

1818 Under Tail

 

1819 Double Tail

Edited February 22 by Wampum

[Wampum]

1 hour ago, dvl said:

Thanks @Britannia47 for sharing the link above.
 

I am curious to find out whether mintages are playing major role for the crowns value from that period?
 

e.g. 1820 (448k) being more valuable than 1819 (683k) because of the mintage figures or let’s say both 1820 and 1819 in EF condition, but the first one being with higher value because of the mintages?

I guess 1818 will be always with the highest value simply because it was the first year with Pistrucci’s masterpiece and lowest mintage (depends on condition).

Is £360 or more a good price for 1820 crown in EF condition? I have quickly checked around inc Ebay, but cannot find one for £318 as per the link above. 
 

Many thanks in advance

I would start just by buying the absolute best one you can buy first, however don't get pulled in the the 1819 over 1820 as there are quite a few off these, there are thicker ruled Garters than sell for a premium too however these also are not that hard to find.  

By the best you can and study it, then look for differences of the same coin.

[Petra]

20 minutes ago, Wampum said:

The George III Crowns are brilliant to collect you have the main;

1818 LVIII

1818 LIX

1919 LIX

1919 LX

2020 LX

Then within the series there is varieties such as star stop, Cinguefoil, or none, the "excuse😆" lettering can be different too, there are large LVIII and small LVIII (different LIX and LV also), and because the edge lettering was made up of parts for the closed collar, they are also mixed within the years. 

The 1819 over 20 seems to sell for more however this is one of the more common coins you can get, and within this there are at least four 19/20's that are easily found.

The below are just three of the 1818 LVIII coins that can be found (if you forget about the collars);

The first is 1818 over 8 , where you can see the broken tail of the original 8 just at the top.( Reverse is also different however the 8/8 is the easiest spot).

The Second and Third are the tail under and the tail over the Q of QUI, these can only be seen on a better quality coin, however you can still find out on a worn coin by other small differences.

1919 seem to have the most differences, the last picture shows the re-working of the small tail from a 1818 Reverse die. I had a whole series of the GIII Crown and these were only four of the varieties I had   

(These are only my opinions through collecting them, so you can use it as a reference only, as I'm not the sharpest tool in the box. Then like a fool selling the whole collection and  regretting it ever since.              

 

 

🤔nice coin, what grade is it?🤔

[MrStacker]

Looks like 2oz gold version all sold out on multiple dealer sites now. 
 

I’m sure the eBay prices are vertically appreciating now. 

[paulmerton]

1 hour ago, Wampum said:

The George III Crowns are brilliant to collect you have the main;

1818 LVIII

1818 LIX

1919 LIX

1919 LX

2020 LX

Then within the series there is varieties such as star stop, Cinguefoil, or none, the "excuse😆" lettering can be different too, there are large LVIII and small LVIII (different LIX and LV also), and because the edge lettering was made up of parts for the closed collar, they are also mixed within the years. 

The 1819 over 20 seems to sell for more however this is one of the more common coins you can get, and within this there are at least four 19/20's that are easily found.

The below are just three of the 1818 LVIII coins that can be found (if you forget about the collars);

The first is 1818 over 8 , where you can see the broken tail of the original 8 just at the top.( Reverse is also different however the 8/8 is the easiest spot).

The Second and Third are the tail under and the tail over the Q of QUI, these can only be seen on a better quality coin, however you can still find out on a worn coin by other small differences.

1919 seem to have the most differences, the last picture shows the re-working of the small tail from a 1818 Reverse die. I had a whole series of the GIII Crown and these were only four of the varieties I had   

(These are only my opinions through collecting them, so you can use it as a reference only, as I'm not the sharpest tool in the box. Then like a fool selling the whole collection and  regretting it ever since.              

 

1818/8

 

 

1818 Over Tail

 

1818 Under Tail

 

1819 Double Tail

This is brilliant and you clearly know your way around these coins.

Which leads me to ask something I've been wondering - are the edge inscriptions always the same way up on these coins?

It's a bit of a joke in circulating £2 coin land that people try and sell coins that have "upside-down edge inscriptions" on eBay for hundreds of pounds without realising that there is a 50/50 chance of it being either way up. The edge inscriptions are added during the rimming of the blanks, so the orientation depends purely on which side up they are when they fall out of the hopper that feeds the striking machine. I have no idea how there came to be such a widespread misconception that the text must be upright when looking at the obverse, but that's what most of these eBay listings seem to claim.

Due to the way these new 2024 St George and the Dragon coins are made, I would expect every edge inscription to be the same way up, thus there would actually be a "correct way up" and it would be impossible for any to be upside down. (I could be wrong, but that's my understanding)

Is there a correct way up for edge inscriptions on the 1818-1820 coins, or could the special collars have been used either way up? If you have enough of these coins floating around, it would be interesting to see some stats  

[Wampum]

1 hour ago, Petra said:

🤔nice coin, what grade is it?🤔

Hi the images are for four different coins, just showing the differences of each coin that can be found and the range I think was MS62 to MS64.

[Wampum]

40 minutes ago, paulmerton said:

This is brilliant and you clearly know your way around these coins.

Which leads me to ask something I've been wondering - are the edge inscriptions always the same way up on these coins?

It's a bit of a joke in circulating £2 coin land that people try and sell coins that have "upside-down edge inscriptions" on eBay for hundreds of pounds without realising that there is a 50/50 chance of it being either way up. The edge inscriptions are added during the rimming of the blanks, so the orientation depends purely on which side up they are when they fall out of the hopper that feeds the striking machine. I have no idea how there came to be such a widespread misconception that the text must be upright when looking at the obverse, but that's what most of these eBay listings seem to claim.

Due to the way these new 2024 St George and the Dragon coins are made, I would expect every edge inscription to be the same way up, thus there would actually be a "correct way up" and it would be impossible for any to be upside down. (I could be wrong, but that's my understanding)

Is there a correct way up for edge inscriptions on the 1818-1820 coins, or could the special collars have been used either way up? If you have enough of these coins floating around, it would be interesting to see some stats  

I sold the whole collection a few years ago, however from what I can recall the inscription read from the obverse side so looking at the Kings'  head you could read the inscription.

Can't wait now for the first one to appear the other way!!😁  

Edit; just thinking out aloud I think that even G IV and Victoria where the same, not entirely sure.

Edited February 22 by Wampum

[westminstrel]

@paulmerton - Thanks for asking the question that’s been on my mind for a long time. 🙂

@Wampum - You’re my hero 🦸🏻‍♂️ Looking forward to your reply @paulmerton.

[paulmerton]

8 minutes ago, westminstrel said:

@paulmerton - Thanks for asking the question that’s been on my mind for a long time. 🙂

@Wampum - You’re my hero 🦸🏻‍♂️ Looking forward to your reply @paulmerton.

I only have some bashed up ones where you can barely see the edge inscription, let alone make out which was up it goes 🤣

[Wampum]

I know this was for the new GE series, however the G III Crowns are linked.

When the original Pattern for the Crown came out they had a small dot in the centre so that the hub could be centred, I think there is a Pattern Crown earlier in the thread that you can see the Dot on.

There are Crowns for 1820 with a Dot on them however the Dot is off centre, so not entirely sure what the reason for this was, it could possibly be for something similar. the coin itself can't be a Proof as the edge lettering has been re-worked,  

especially around the Q of QUI, these coins however in my view are Proof like.   

The Dot should be directly below the thigh, however in the picture below you see it further down. Pistrucci worked some of the dies in a scored grid pattern to make sure everything fitted ,so a possible reason is that this Dot is the corner, of the centre grid square, however that is merely supposition on my part. I did have a picture of a grid die that he worked on however can not find it...... or it could just be a die fault ,and am talking through a crevice.    

 

       

 

Edited February 22 by Wampum

[westminstrel]

6 minutes ago, Wampum said:

I know this was for the new GE series, however the G III Crowns are linked.

When the original Pattern for the Crown came out they had a small dot in the centre so that the hub could be centred, I think there is a Pattern Crown earlier in the thread that you can see the Dot on.

There are Crowns for 1820 with a Dot on them however the Dot is off centre, so not entirely sure what the reason for this was, it could possibly be for something similar. the coin itself can't be a Proof as the edge lettering has been re-worked,  

especially around the Q of QUI, these coins however in my view are Proof like.   

The Dot should be directly below the thigh, however in the picture below you see it further down. Pistrucci worked some of the dies in a scored grid pattern to make sure everything fitted ,so a possible reason is that this Dot is the corner, of the centre

grid square, however that is merely supposition on my part. I did have a picture of a grid die that he worked on however can not find it.       

 

       

 

I am so fascinated by this. 😎

I’m going to have to save these messages and cross reference with images. (Because I’m a Hobbit).

——

Hobbits delighted in such things, if they were accurate; they liked to have books filled with things that they already knew, set out fair and square with no contradictions.

J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring, The Lord of the Rings

 

[Paul]

https://www.sovr.co.uk/products/george-iii-1819-crown-lix-edge-engraved-by-pistrucci-ms62-hm31786

If anyone's feeling flush MS62 original Crown available - £3500 

 I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the prices of the very best MS examples will rise over the next year 

Happened with the GE Gothic Crown 

Folk owning the gold may very well appreciate having an original to compliment it  

There's also an MS60 for £1950

https://www.sovr.co.uk/products/george-iii-1819-crown-lix-edge-engraved-by-pistrucci-ms60-hm32190

[Petra]

2 hours ago, Wampum said:

Hi the images are for four different coins, just showing the differences of each coin that can be found and the range I think was MS62 to MS64.

Cheers👍