Silver in a time of crisis, or for retirement.

[Roy]

Borrowed from Yankee Stacking 😇

If your monthly expenses were, say, $4000, you'd need 139 ozt. a month to cover them.

Lose your job for six months, 834 ozt.

If you plan to rely on silver to finance your retirement, you'd need 1667 ozt a year to maintain your current lifestyle.

16,670 ozt (518.5 KG) to last you 10 years, assuming the silver price stays constant.

Keep stacking boys!

😎

p.s. @GoldDiggerDave had nothing to do with this post 😇

Edited August 16, 2023 by Roy

[Scuzzle]

I'd be interested to see how the same living expenses chart works out using gold instead.  Might be a huge difference taking something actually near all time highs rather than something at half it's all time high.  The dream scenario for the gold stacker is a revaluation to match M1 money supply and the dream scenario for the silver stacker is a better silver to gold pricing ratio even just with gold as it is today.

[Roy]

Yes, I agree, but it's something that I'm not clever enough to do!

Maybe @Darr3nG or @HonestMoneyGoldSilver could create such a chart?

It was a fun post, TBH 😄

[Roy]

If your monthly outgoings were $4000, you'd need 2 ozt of gold a month.

24 ozt a year?

 

I'm starting to get worried now! 😲

Edited August 16, 2023 by Roy

[Scuzzle]

5 minutes ago, Roy said:

If your monthly outgoings were $4000, you'd need 2 ozt of gold a month.

24 ozt a year?

 

I'm starting to get worried now! 😲

And here's me thinking a sovereign a month would do the job.

[Roy]

Me too!

[GoldDiggerDave]

1 hour ago, Scuzzle said:

And here's me thinking a sovereign a month would do the job.

I've always looked as a sovereign as 1 weeks stored wages its all about outgoings as you approach retirement.  I retired at 45 3 years ago.

I can just about get by on 1 sovereign per month if I had to so I can live off a tube of sovereigns for 2 years.   2.8oz of gold per year I certainly would not be fine dining on this but its my kind of worst case scenario.  My outgoings are minuscule and depends on the individuals circumstances @Roy is closer with $4000 per month £3,100 outgoings especially if you want to retire early and you still have finical liabilities like mortgages and still supporting offspring.   

Kids today are getting nailed with 40 year student debt and 35 year mortgages so those only getting onto the housing market in their early to mid 30's are going to be paying one until their very late 60's if not into their 70's. This new system is setting a generation up for  total and absolute  lifetime debt.   

@Roy has brought up a very important and sobering point, when do you think you can retire and how much to you need. 

@modofantasma  talks a lot about gold/savings/outgoings.   

[modofantasma]

3 hours ago, Roy said:

16,670 ozt (518.5 KG) to last you 10 years, assuming the silver price stays constant.

Who here thinks prices will be constant for 10 years though?

For eg council tax at £3k odd now going up by 4% a year would be about £4500 annually in 10 years. 

So in silver cheapest I've seen about £23 an Oz here 130 Oz / year now 196 Oz in 10 years.... UNLESS silver trades at £35 an Oz on here in 10 years.

If you prefer to buy and sell via dealers probably need double that 

[CaptCaveMan]

@modofantasmais spot on.

Food, fuel, utilities and taxes (council or otherwise) amongst everything else only go in one direction.

We're aiming to pay off our debt (mortgage) asap as well as continue with the pension pots, then save/invest harder for the remainder of our careers until we reach our tipping point and we can then utilise our pensions keeping the savings/investments for a rainy day.

When the kids have finally flown the nest we will eventually downsize (then move somewhere they can't find us 😂) for a final pot if needed or in part, gift within our lifetimes.

IMHO I don't see PMs as a way to offset expenses in retirement although it could... to an extent, it's too much a moving target.  For me it's the enjoyment of collecting and holding as well as being physical savings to pass on, unless an emergency arises.

[GoldDiggerDave]

£1000 in the bank in 1971 with an average of 7.1% interest over time. Turns into  £39,690.85.

£1000 of silver in 1971 would have bought you around 1200oz (being generous)   allowing for vat and dealer premium  £21,348.00 todays price 

£1000 of gold in 1971 would have bought around 60oz gold allowing for dealer premium  today this is worth £89,700. today price 

Not positive nor negative just fact. 

Cash in the bank has gone up 39X in 52 years  from £1000 to £39,690.85  (with interest) 

Silver has gone up 25.5X in price in 52 years, from £0.70p to £17.85  at spot 

Gold has gone up 94.3x in price in 52 years, from £15.84 to £1,495 at spot 

In real terms how much has the pound lost in 52 years?   I would argue around 95% of its real purchasing  power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GoldDiggerDave]

@COBRASTACKER  ⬆️  

[Darr3nG]

5 hours ago, Roy said:

Maybe @Darr3nG or @HonestMoneyGoldSilver could create such a chart?

Monthly Expenses		Duration of Crisis
GBP £	Silver Ozt*	6 months	1 Year	18 Months	2 Years	3 Years
£500.00	22.22	133.3	266.7	400.0	533.3	800.0
£1,000.00	44.44	266.7	533.3	800.0	1,066.7	1,600.0
£2,000.00	88.89	533.3	1,066.7	1,600.0	2,133.3	3,200.0
£3,000.00	133.33	800.0	1,600.0	2,400.0	3,200.0	4,800.0
£4,000.00	177.78	1,066.7	2,133.3	3,200.0	4,266.7	6,400.0
£5,000.00	222.22	1,333.3	2,666.7	4,000.0	5,333.3	8,000.0
£6,000.00	266.67	1,600.0	3,200.0	4,800.0	6,400.0	9,600.0
£10,000.00	444.44	2,666.7	5,333.3	8,000.0	10,666.7	16,000.0
£15,000.00	666.67	4,000.0	8,000.0	12,000.0	16,000.0	24,000.0
£20,000.00	888.89	5,333.3	10,666.7	16,000.0	21,333.3	32,000.0
*based on 1ozt silver round from TSF:			£22.50
Monthly Expenses		Duration of Crisis
GBP £	Gold Ozt*	6 months	1 Year	18 Months	2 Years	3 Years
£500.00	0.33	2.0	3.9	5.9	7.8	11.7
£1,000.00	0.65	3.9	7.8	11.7	15.6	23.5
£2,000.00	1.30	7.8	15.6	23.5	31.3	46.9
£3,000.00	1.95	11.7	23.5	35.2	46.9	70.4
£4,000.00	2.61	15.6	31.3	46.9	62.5	93.8
£5,000.00	3.26	19.5	39.1	58.6	78.2	117.3
£6,000.00	3.91	23.5	46.9	70.4	93.8	140.7
£10,000.00	6.51	39.1	78.2	117.3	156.4	234.5
£15,000.00	9.77	58.6	117.3	175.9	234.5	351.8
£20,000.00	13.03	78.2	156.4	234.5	312.7	469.1
*based on 1ozt gold round from TSF:			£1,535.00
Monthly Expenses		Duration of Crisis
GBP £	Sovereign*	6 months	1 Year	18 Months	2 Years	3 Years
£500.00	1.35	8.1	16.2	24.3	32.4	48.6
£1,000.00	2.70	16.2	32.4	48.6	64.9	97.3
£2,000.00	5.41	32.4	64.9	97.3	129.7	194.6
£3,000.00	8.11	48.6	97.3	145.9	194.6	291.9
£4,000.00	10.81	64.9	129.7	194.6	259.5	389.2
£5,000.00	13.51	81.1	162.2	243.2	324.3	486.5
£6,000.00	16.22	97.3	194.6	291.9	389.2	583.8
£10,000.00	27.03	162.2	324.3	486.5	648.6	973.0
£15,000.00	40.54	243.2	486.5	729.7	973.0	1,459.5
£20,000.00	54.05	324.3	648.6	973.0	1,297.3	1,945.9
*based on 1 full sovereign from TSF:			£370.00

[Aldebaran]

5 hours ago, Roy said:

If your monthly outgoings were $4000, you'd need 2 ozt of gold a month.

24 ozt a year?

 

I'm starting to get worried now! 😲

One way to look at it is, roughly two and a half or (five for 20 years ) monster boxes of gold Brits are pretty easy to store. Imagine how many many boxes of silver that would be!!

You could build a garden wall, or better still a bomb shelter with them 🌞

[GoldDiggerDave]

1 hour ago, Aldebaran said:

One way to look at it is, roughly two and a half or (five for 20 years ) monster boxes of gold Brits are pretty easy to store. Imagine how many many boxes of silver that would be!!

You could build a garden wall, or better still a bomb shelter with them 🌞

If you use @Darr3nG chart, for 2k a month outgoings it’s 1066 oz per year, god willing we all want 25 years retirement so that’s 26,650 oz or almost 54 monster boxes. You can’t stuff that under the bed it would bring the ceiling down 🤣

 

when you look at silver in these terms it very quickly becomes a cartoon.  Factor in the postage charges you would have  shelled out over the years for the stack …..it’s almost 13.5k in capsules🤣

£18,521 in postage if you bought 10 a time with RMSD 

Edited August 16, 2023 by GoldDiggerDave

[Agaupl]

In a time of crisis, if you are spending more then the basic things that keep body and soul together then you’re doing it wrong. You won’t be paying a mortgage, insurance, car payments etc with silver or gold. 

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

Some interesting maths going on here!

The average Fed Funds Rate 1971-2023 = 4.86%. Let's take interest on bank deposits as a smidge below the FFR, say 4.75%. In that case (calculated using yearly compound):

$1000 in 1971 = $1000*(1.0475)^53 = $11,699 or roughly a quarter of the previously derived figure

Freddie Mac has been keeping records since 1971. Between April 1971 and June 2023, 30-year fixed-rate mortgages averaged 7.74%

Let's compare our $1000 earning interest in the bank (or government bonds) with $1000 in mortgage debt between 1971-2023:

$11699 - ($1000*(1.0774)^53)) = $11699 - $51997 = a net position of minus $40K for every $1000

(1971-2023 is 53 years inclusive, not 52)

Compound Interest Calculator [with Formula] (omnicalculator.com) (A better calculator)

So cash went up 11.7x

Debt went up 52x

How does that compare with holding gold and silver? Well:

 

You need roughly the same amount of gold and silver to buy a house in 2023 as you did in 1971 - roughly 200 ounces of gold and very roughly 15,000 ounces of silver. Gold has maintained its value over those roughly 50 years while silver has maintained most of its value over that same period

GBP has lost 99.654% of its value vs gold since 1751

USD has lost 99% of its value vs gold since 1930

JPY has lost 99.98% of its value vs gold in the last 100 years

Neither gold nor silver are yielding assets. It's illogical to promote gold as an investment while claiming silver is not an investment when over the last 50 years they are roughly equivalent. Currently we have an historically high gold/silver ratio so perhaps if we take another 50 years the relative values of gold, silver and real estate will be even closer than today. For reference the Pearson's coefficient between gold and silver is roughly 0.80 and the coefficient between BTC and ETH is roughly 0.89. Saying gold is an investment and silver is not is akin to saying BTC is an investment while ETH is not. They are strongly correlated, indeed, silver and gold naturally occur together in the same deposits the majority of the time. 

[sixgun]

$4000 a month - that's £3139 at the moment. That's a lot in my book.

i probably potter along with £400 a month expenses and spend the rest on metals and other trinkets. 

i think when you consider how much silver you would need to live, even my frugal existence, you realise that silver is way under priced - way under priced.

Keep stacking.

[Darr3nG]

3 hours ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

54 monster boxes. You can’t stuff that under the bed it would bring the ceiling down

A lot of assumptions there, @GoldDiggerDave...

 

According to [The Royal Mint], a large monster box (20 tubes) has the following dimensions: L:265 x W:218 x D:86 mm

54 is a nice round (literally rectangular) 6 x 9 configuration, so would cover a floor area comprised of approx. 1.59 x 1.96m

Moving over to [Wikipedia], we can see that this would fit comfortably under a standard King-size bed (in most countries, except the UK where there will be a bit poking out)

And only requiring approx. 90mm of floor clearance would leave some space for other storage. This, or just place the mattress directly on top of the monster boxes for a "solid" night's sleep.

Moving said bed to the ground floor would mitigate against any ceiling damage.

 

Check mate!

[Agaupl]

4 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Some interesting maths going on here!

The average Fed Funds Rate 1971-2023 = 4.86%. Let's take interest on bank deposits as a smidge below the FFR, say 4.75%. In that case (calculated using yearly compound):

$1000 in 1971 = $1000*(1.0475)^53 = $11,699 or roughly a quarter of the previously derived figure

Freddie Mac has been keeping records since 1971. Between April 1971 and June 2023, 30-year fixed-rate mortgages averaged 7.74%

Let's compare our $1000 earning interest in the bank (or government bonds) with $1000 in mortgage debt between 1971-2023:

$11699 - ($1000*(1.0774)^53)) = $11699 - $51997 = a net position of minus $40K for every $1000

(1971-2023 is 53 years inclusive, not 52)

Compound Interest Calculator [with Formula] (omnicalculator.com) (A better calculator)

So cash went up 11.7x

Debt went up 52x

How does that compare with holding gold and silver? Well:

 

You need roughly the same amount of gold and silver to buy a house in 2023 as you did in 1971 - roughly 200 ounces of gold and very roughly 15,000 ounces of silver. Gold has maintained its value over those roughly 50 years while silver has maintained most of its value over that same period

GBP has lost 99.654% of its value vs gold since 1751

USD has lost 99% of its value vs gold since 1930

JPY has lost 99.98% of its value vs gold in the last 100 years

Neither gold nor silver are yielding assets. It's illogical to promote gold as an investment while claiming silver is not an investment when over the last 50 years they are roughly equivalent. Currently we have an historically high gold/silver ratio so perhaps if we take another 50 years the relative values of gold, silver and real estate will be even closer than today. For reference the Pearson's coefficient between gold and silver is roughly 0.80 and the coefficient between BTC and ETH is roughly 0.89. Saying gold is an investment and silver is not is akin to saying BTC is an investment while ETH is not. They are strongly correlated, indeed, silver and gold naturally occur together in the same deposits the majority of the time. 

Now do SNP and QQQ. The last shows these are the better option.. but I’m not sure the next 50 years will follow the last 50. 
Compound interest is the key to these ‘long term’ metrics. I’d argue 1971 isn’t long term when looking at PMs (precious metals, Perth mint, private message) but it was obviously a turning point. 
 

As a non yielding asset over the long term pms aren’t a great investment (collectable premium excused). But as a shorter term hedge there’s growth and imvho I see potential in it at the moment. I’ve seen the real estate vs PMs and other collectables before and it works atm on thr trend but obviously not for the majority of the charts and not for real people. Who wanted an inner suburb terrace in londres in 1971? Who wants one now. Same for multiple examples.  For me it’s important to move capital based on circumstances and not stay stuck in one form for ever. 
 

with BTC or ETH there’s not enough history to establish trends imho. For good or bad. 
 

Gold and silver (bullion) are savings not investment 
 

 

8 minutes ago, Darr3nG said:

A lot of assumptions there, @GoldDiggerDave...

 

According to [The Royal Mint], a large monster box (20 tubes) has the following dimensions: L:265 x W:218 x D:86 mm

54 is a nice round (literally rectangular) 6 x 9 configuration, so would cover a floor area comprised of approx. 1.59 x 1.96m

Moving over to [Wikipedia], we can see that this would fit comfortably under a standard King-size bed (in most countries, except the UK where there will be a bit poking out)

And only requiring approx. 90mm of floor clearance would leave some space for other storage. This, or just place the mattress directly on top of the monster boxes for a "solid" night's sleep.

Moving said bed to the ground floor would mitigate against any ceiling damage.

 

Check mate!

You forgot to carry the 1🤣🤣🤣

[sixgun]

This is from the USA / Canada

i haven't noticed, in a large part b/c i don't notice but is this shlt going on in England as well?

 

[Agaupl]

2 minutes ago, sixgun said:

This is from the USA / Canada

i haven't noticed, in a large part b/c i don't notice but is this shlt going on in England as well?

 

On that video there is no actual food. Just c**p. But they are using smart phones and sat in nice cars wearing smart watches etc. 

buy actual ingredients… from a market or even better grow it. . Cook it. Don’t buy shheet. 
 

I also don’t personally don’t listen to anything from WSS based on the alleged past attached to that person. Alleged 

[sixgun]

15 minutes ago, Agaupl said:

On that video there is no actual food. Just c**p. But they are using smart phones and sat in nice cars wearing smart watches etc. 

buy actual ingredients… from a market or even better grow it. . Cook it. Don’t buy shheet. 
 

I also don’t personally don’t listen to anything from WSS based on the alleged past attached to that person. Alleged 

I am not subscribed to WSS on Twitter - but i suppose people i am, are subbed and so it appears.
There probably is a lot of the younger crowd who are not fit for purpose. But what do you expect when these misfits obsess about climate change, gender, safe zones, things being racist, trigger words and whatever other claptrap they are programmed with. They likely cannot budget - they have spent a life frittering away on the latest tat. They cannot cook, they cannot make, mend and make do. They have lived in a bubble and that bubble is popping. i have no time for them. Keep taking the injections, keep eating the shlt food, keep drinking the fluoride and taking your tablets. These will finish you off soon enough and put you out of your misery. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by sixgun

[Agaupl]

2 minutes ago, sixgun said:

I am not subscribed to WSS on Twitter - but i suppose people i am, are subbed and so it appears.
There probably is a lot of the younger crowd who are not fit for purpose. But what do you expect when these misfits obsess about climate change, gender, safe zones, things being racist, trigger words and whatever other claptrap they are programmed with. They likely cannot budget - they have spent a life frittering away on the latest tat. They cannot cook, they cannot make, mend and make do. They have lived in a bubble and that bubble is popping. i have no time for them. Keep taking the injections, keep eating the shlt food, keep drinking the fluoride and taking your tablets. These will finish you off soon enough and put you out of your misery. 

Yeah absolutely. I particularly enjoyed the crying about ‘not being able to do the stuff I wanna do ‘

😢poor chicken 

[Bigmarc]

1 hour ago, Agaupl said:

Compound interest is the key to these ‘long term’ metrics

I know nothing about this and barley understand what they are doing but most of the young lads at work are taking 40 year mortgages out but paying the difference from a 25 year mortgage in compound interest investments. 

Well I think that's what they said anyway.

 

[Agaupl]

2 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

I know nothing about this and barley understand what they are doing but most of the young lads at work are taking 40 year mortgages out but paying the difference from a 25 year mortgage in compound interest investments. 

Well I think that's what they said anyway.

 

They are taking a 40 year mortgage but taking a 25 year equity based 25 year term? At a guess. Pure guess  either way  …

poor sods.