Royal Mint proofs constant quality control issues - official petition?

[ak74]

As anybody reading this forum and buying at least sometimes the RM proof coins, I know there are constant issues with the QC, mainly with silver, but sometimes "even" with gold. The fresh example is the @paulmerton case, where the RM sent him the faulty annual set 3 times. 

 

I am not the UK resident and know not much about the local rules, but maybe there is a certain possibility to compose smth like an "official petition", as they do at the change.org, raising the issue and showing the issue size? I am not going to say it can be forwarded to the any of government bodies, but at least it could attract the RM management attention, "persuading" them to consider certain measures with the RM Quality Control department. I think numismatics society is strong enough to collect at least several hundreds signatures, and the RM should be aware that currently the proof coins purchase is the kind of National Lottery.

That's just an idea, so pls don't come too strong if it looks silly

 

[paulmerton]

I'm ambivalent about this but here's some more pictures.

I also returned a 5-coin coronation sov set, and the replacement - which had also been given an outward inspection due to my complaints about these ongoing issues - arrived with a half sov like this:

The quarter has a noticeable ding on it too:

And the other coins have frosting issues that the original set didn't have.

The set I returned in the first place only had one duff coin, which they refused to replace individually, so this is super annoying - especially at this price point. This is worse than being back at square one.

If I keep getting worse sets back even when they are explicitly double checking them before dispatch, I think my relationship with RM is close to terminal. They are not delivering the quality they profess to deliver, and haven't been for some time in my unfortunate experience. They can't even put things right when they get it wrong again and again.

[EliteNeo]

I wish the dealers would push back regarding the quality issues. Perhaps a joint statement between them would hold some weight. They must also be getting tired of complaints.

This is the state of the front of my Piedfort Proof Coronation 50p.

Dealer has no other stock so it’s either refund or keep.

Which is frustrating as part of the reason I bought this was the relatively low mintage of the coin. 

[MBTPSilver]

Unfortunately there's no choice, it's a legal monopoly. You can't go elsewhere for official UK coins so the mint can do as they please. The best petition you can do is to stop buying the coins, and email Royal Mint with a polite, coherent message stating that the reason you're not buying their proof coins is due to the low quality control. If they saw sales on Proof coins drop by 25 - 50% then they'll start to take action.

[CazLikesCoins]

Personally I can do without the stress and expense of proof coins. Fretting, not fretting, knowing, that your supposedly pristine coins will probably arrive looking like they've been on a construction site's conveyor belt underneath some rubble. Then you get to experience the abject disappointment and dread of musical chairs with the RMs swap out /refund/apology programme, where you're end up getting someone else's coins as a replacement that they disappointedly sent back, as they get yours. 

Bullion all the way. Less disappointment. 🤣

[CazLikesCoins]

On 02/08/2023 at 15:59, paulmerton said:

I'm ambivalent about this but here's some more pictures.

I also returned a 5-coin coronation sov set, and the replacement - which had also been given an outward inspection due to my complaints about these ongoing issues - arrived with a half sov like this:

The quarter has a noticeable ding on it too:

And the other coins have frosting issues that the original set didn't have.

The set I returned in the first place only had one duff coin, which they refused to replace individually, so this is super annoying - especially at this price point. This is worse than being back at square one.

If I keep getting worse sets back even when they are explicitly double checking them before dispatch, I think my relationship with RM is close to terminal. They are not delivering the quality they profess to deliver, and haven't been for some time in my unfortunate experience. They can't even put things right when they get it wrong again and again.

I've bough cheap spanners in better condition 🙁

[CazLikesCoins]

20 minutes ago, MBTPSilver said:

Unfortunately there's no choice, it's a legal monopoly. You can't go elsewhere for official UK coins so the mint can do as they please. The best petition you can do is to stop buying the coins, and email Royal Mint with a polite, coherent message stating that the reason you're not buying their proof coins is due to the low quality control. If they saw sales on Proof coins drop by 25 - 50% then they'll start to take action.

The RM is like Apple. They tell the public what's best for them, and eventually the public agrees. One day we'll all be happy with dinged, scuffed coins as our resistance in expecting the RM to change will wither away and be replaced with a slightly foggy recollection that's something's not quite right, but we accept it anyway. Rather than companies reaching for the heavens and taking us along for the ride, they slam out the crappist denomination possible and have us exist in it. 

[CazLikesCoins]

53 minutes ago, MBTPSilver said:

Unfortunately there's no choice, it's a legal monopoly. You can't go elsewhere for official UK coins so the mint can do as they please. 

You can always start collecting Azazis. They could be delivered in a box of mixed nails wrapped up in sandpaper and it wouldn't make a difference 😋

[slack]

2 hours ago, CazLikesCoins said:

Personally I can do without the stress and expense of proof coins. Fretting, not fretting, knowing, that your supposedly pristine coins will probably arrive looking like they've been on a construction site's conveyor belt underneath some rubble. Then you get to experience the abject disappointment and dread of musical chairs with the RMs swap out /refund/apology programme, where you're end up getting someone else's coins as a replacement that they disappointedly sent back, as they get yours. 

Bullion all the way. Less disappointment. 🤣

Totally agree Caz, I try to stick with bullion but like a fool occasionally I forget my 'no proofs' rule and make the mistake of rolling the proof coin dice all over again

[paulmerton]

This is absolutely incredible!

The 2nd 5-coin coronation sovereign set I returned underwent an inward inspection when it was received back at the mint.

I've just been told it PASSED their quality inspection, despite those obvious scratches on the half sovereign.

That says it all for me. Having passed two inspections now, this is clearly deemed to be acceptable quality for a Royal Mint flagship proof coin.

Shocking. I have no other polite words for it. 

[paulmerton]

Could I just have a quick sanity check please... 

Those scratches on the half sovereign are completely unacceptable, right?

I just can't figure out whether they're trying to tell me they are acceptable, or whether they haven't looked at the coins properly yet again.

[Darr3nG]

42 minutes ago, paulmerton said:

Those scratches on the half sovereign are completely unacceptable, right?

Correct. This is their flagship product and needs to be flawless.

@GoldDiggerDave - you've looked at more than a few of these, what do you think?

[SilverPlatinum]

Is joining change.org free or you have to pay for that? I see this?

[ak74]

5 hours ago, SilverPlatinum said:

Is joining change.org free or you have to pay for that? I see this?

That's strange, I've just registered for free and without such a "proposal"

[paulmerton]

On 16/08/2023 at 20:45, paulmerton said:

This is absolutely incredible!

The 2nd 5-coin coronation sovereign set I returned underwent an inward inspection when it was received back at the mint.

I've just been told it PASSED their quality inspection, despite those obvious scratches on the half sovereign.

That says it all for me. Having passed two inspections now, this is clearly deemed to be acceptable quality for a Royal Mint flagship proof coin.

Shocking. I have no other polite words for it. 

I challenged this, and...

"I have again enquired on the condition of the 5 Coin Sovereign Set and the feedback remains that the Half-Sovereign met our quality standard. The image you have sent is highly magnified and I am unable to comment."

I'm flabbergasted by this.

The coin has clearly been mishandled in a way it shouldn't have been between striking and packaging, and the resultant scratches are visible to the naked eye at arm's length. I don't understand how this can possibly meet their quality standard.

I'm so angry about this now but it seems like there is nothing I can do.

[TeaTime]

I think it depends whether the marks are considered as part of the minting process or are damage after the fact. In this case it looks like the scratches have been made between striking and packaging. Unacceptable on a proof coin.

I really believe that, in general, RM customers expect too much from them (i.e. when complaining about dust or fibres in a capsule, specks in frosting etc) but a scratch like that is obviously the result of poor handling at the mint..

 

[paulmerton]

Just a warning for anyone who is about to buy one of the two 5-coin coronation sovereign sets that are in stock.... I asked that they check this half sovereign again, as surely there's no way this can be deemed acceptable? Someone must have not looked at it properly, right?

Nope.

They have confirmed that the whole set meets their quality standard and it has been returned to stock!

[paulmerton]

Oh man, I cannot even start to describe how annoyed I am.

[stefffana]

Royal Mint new releases:

 

 

Royal Mail Special Delivery:

 

[paulmerton]

Naturally I challenged this again, and...

"As previously advised the inspection process on the set was comprehensive and for the despatch of the set this was completed by our Returns Manager and a Production Manager. It then received an inward inspection by our Returns Manager. At each inspection the set was deemed to meet our quality standard and this included the Half Sovereign. The set was returned to stock and a further inspection is not required given the experience and rigour of the action already taken."

 

[StackemHigh]

I have been collecting and stacking from the late '80s. I have seen the quality in manufacturing and the rise in the design quality and In my time i have seen a huge rise in the PF70 collecting of graded coins too.

IMHO a proof coin is a coin that has a certain type of finish to it and is in no way related to the quality of that finish. A very basic view of the subject.

A certain level of quality and standard should be applied to all products but PF70 everytime?

I haven't bought any of the rm trash recently (2016) as their stuff falls way below the standards I have myself. 

I realise that there are FANBOYS/GIRLS of the rm and they will go above and beyond to defend these rather old fashioned standards in a more modern world the rm finds itself in. 

Other mints (RAM, Perth Mint and Germania) have far better quality but the rm operators the government at westminster as always fail to impress and have lowered the CGT threshold to protect sales rather than improve standards.

How times have changed.

[paulmerton]

That's an interesting thing to ponder - what grade would you expect this to get? (assuming the rest of the coin is perfect!)