When should one invest in Silver instead of Gold?

[JohnA1]

As for the "risk-free" rate.

It's not the nominal but the real one that matters, right? So it would be 'risk-free' return minus inflation.

If we look at it this way, we may find out that it might more akin to 'return-free' risk (in the past few years at least).

And that is when using the government's own inflation figures. The real ones are at *least* double that, so the 'return-free' guaranteed loss is even more severe.

Edited June 24, 2023 by JohnA1

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

54 minutes ago, JohnA1 said:

83% annually?🧐 Where?

-

Edited June 23, 2023 by HonestMoneyGoldSilver
bad maff

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

_

Edited June 23, 2023 by HonestMoneyGoldSilver
bad maff

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

Taxes are due on profits (20-40% in UK depending on your annual income)

Edited June 23, 2023 by HonestMoneyGoldSilver

[DTL1982]

23 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

If it's not clear - invest £10,000 in 1-month US Treasuries current rate @ 5.066% (has been as high as 5.755% this year) and reinvest every month

TMUBMUSD01M | U.S. 1 Month Treasury Bill Overview | MarketWatch

£10,000 * (1.0566)^12 = £18,094

Average rate of 5.18% = £18,331

Current UK 1-month bond yield = 5.268%

United Kingdom 1-Month Bond Yield - Investing.com UK

£10,000 * (1.05268)^12 = £18,516

I believe the yields are expressed on an annualized basis. The rate of 5.18% is based on a whole year so you would end up with £10,518 if you held for a year and the rate stayed the same each month. If everyone almost doubled their money every year with treasuries we’d all be millionaires pretty quickly. 

[stefffana]

2 minutes ago, DTL1982 said:

I believe the yields are expressed on an annualized basis. The rate of 5.18% is based on a whole year so you would end up with £10,518 if you held for a year and the rate stayed the same each month. If everyone almost doubled their money every year with treasuries we’d all be millionaires pretty quickly. 

Yes, you are right!

[JohnA1]

😄

Edited June 24, 2023 by JohnA1

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

You are right of course @DTL1982, @JohnA1 - embarrassing mistake 😂

[theman73]

2 hours ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

You have to work a lot harder to make £1500 sales in silver than £1500 in gold (a single coin) but your margin is significantly higher with silver

You should think from people's perspective, not yours. Just a few people can buy one gold coin at £1500, most people can afford one silver coin (£24). You will sell much faster silver coins than gold coins, it's all about purchasing power.

[Bigmarc]

HiI think there is too much emphasis on charts, googling and faceless individuals opinions. One of the greatest sources of information is right here. There are over 1000 sales pages on here dating back to 2014. You can see what sells easily and what actual price (not spot). You can look at the steady growth of gold or the peaks and troughs of silver. One thing is obvious is that there is an abundance of silver sales happening all the time and is very liquid. I think they are two very different assets, gold long term take it to the grave and silver to keep turning over to grow the pot.

[BearlyHere]

Another thought:

For centuries the gold/silver ratio has stayed at ~ 15:1.  In the 70s when the gold standard was abandoned (thanks Nixon you turd) it changed to 65:1.  Today it sits a little over 85:1.  

What's important to know is that there are thousand of uses for silver that are unrecoverable and unrecyclable (i.e. solar panels).  Silver has a high demand in industry.  Gold does not carry this demand.  The supply of silver will continue to diminish as it is used.  Many experts today believe that the cost of silver is being kept artificially low and manipulated by countries trying to enlarge their stock piles cheaply (see BRICS).  If that is true, the price of silver could skyrocket sharply.

As I said in a previous post, it is NOT a good idea to view metal as an investment, but as a protected asset.  It could (and should) go up sharply, but I wouldn't count on it.

[flyingveepixie]

8 hours ago, BearlyHere said:

Many experts today believe that the cost of silver is being kept artificially low

I would say this is fairly common knowledge.  The paper silver to physical ratio is somewhere around 350 :1.  That is to say for every 1oz silver Brit in existence, there exists 350 non-existent silver Brits, which exist only in investors imaginations, virtual Brits if you prefer.  It is this phenomenen which keeps the price of physical silver so low, and in the hopes of many (including myself) is the ticking time bomb which will one day explode when all the holders of non existent silver suddenly demand physical in exchange for their little bits of paper and find it doesn't exist.  At that point the price will go through the roof,  but the question is - will that day ever come?  TBH I have my doubts.

"Could, should, might, maybe" etc. You hear it all the time but it doesn't really mean anything.

Edited June 24, 2023 by flyingveepixie

[gji25]

To understand what is real and tangible in the silver market, it is crucial then to grasp the difference between paper silver and physical silver, and how paper silver is traded in practically unlimited quantities, while physical silver is a scarce and valuable commodity that plays a role as both an investment precious metal and an industrial precious metal.

In short, physical silver is a real tangible asset with intrinsic value, that has no counterparty risk and is difficult and costly to mine. Paper silver is not.

Paper silver is altogether different, comprising securities and derivatives spanning unallocated, synthetic, and fractionally-backed claims that do not provide any ownership of real physical silver.

[GoldDiggerDave]

On a really positive note about silver, you might as well buy some today as it's never been so relativity cheap as the pound has lost so much of its purchasing power over the last decade and the price of silver moved way less than the real rate  of inflation.  

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnA1]

I think this statement is so true that it boggles the mind.

Using Shadow Stats (of John Williams) silver appears to be priced 20x lower compared to 40 years ago. Crazy..

Edited June 24, 2023 by JohnA1

[DrKarlMoneys]

Geopolitical uncertainty can certainly drive increases in precious metal prices and given the apparent mutiny in Russia this could be a good time to buy.

[JohnA1]

We live in a clown world where we are meant to believe that the US didn't think there will be flight from the dollar if  they block a G7 country from SWIFT. Really?😅

All this 'inclusivity' nonesense, mandate claptrap, printing and wondering where inflation comes from - everything looks like preparation for a controlled demolition

I see PMs as a way to hedge against corruption/greed/stupidity of politicians and "officials"

Edited June 24, 2023 by JohnA1

[GoldDiggerDave]

2 hours ago, JohnA1 said:

I think this statement is so true that it boggles the mind.

Using Shadow Stats (of John Williams) silver appears to be priced 20x lower compared to 40 years ago. Crazy..

The more they governments QE the more assets some times can be made worth less or worthless.  Silver is a very good example go back 10 year and see how much silver you could buy for a £1000 and also see how much goods and services the same£1000 would buy you.   Fast forward to now and see what the £1000 of silver is worth BUT also what goods and services a £1000 will get you today far less, food, energy, fuel and a hell of a lot less rent or mortgage payments.

And we all know for the "physical investor" silver needs silver  to almost double in price before they even see a return on the original purchase price  due to VAT and high dealer premiums, add in real world inflation and zero yield,  silver would need to more than triple in value in real world terms every 10 years to even come close to be consider a "hedge against inflation"   as fiat loses 50% of it purchasing power every decade or somewhere abouts.

 

   

[FriedrichVonHayek]

Holding Silver long-term is a dumb idea, but using the Gold/Silver ratio is an excellent way to accumulate cheap Gold.

https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/price-ratio/gold/silver/alltime/

This time maybe different owing to Silver's usefulness but I will be swapping my Silver to Gold and never swapping back again.

[JohnA1]

this fella claims that silver price discovery is bogus.

He's not the only one by far either. So it could be that this situation drags for years to come - who knows..

https://www.brighteon.com/cf085a77-06b8-4ef3-a061-353cd8fe81d7

It brings us back to the significant speculative dimension of holding silver

[Gruff]

On 23/06/2023 at 08:33, GoldDiggerDave said:

No 7, it will cost more to buy the safe than the silver you can store inside it……it’s better just to stack safes than silver🤣🤣🤣

How many safes in a tube?

[Coverte]

FWIW - I've read that In the very earliest days of PM being used as 'money' - silver was valued more highly than gold.

[HillWalkerDundee]

I am stacking silver as an insurance policy. People have car insurance, home insurance, life insurance etc. We buy them as a just in case of disaster happening. So it is with silver (and gold for that matter). It is just personal preference as to what PMs and denominations we hold.

[TeaTime]

Any 'facts' relating to the investment potential of silver (and to a lesser extent gold) should always consider the actual saleable value of the items.

Basing the value of silver coins on spot price is meaningless and disingenuous - no-one with a modicum of intelligence sells silver coins at spot price, there is always a premium. The potential for increasing the value of silver coins is, largely, based on desirability of the coins being sold. That is what silver stackers are gambling on. The guaranteed spot price is just a safety net.

Gold coins, in the main, do not have the same potential and generally are tied to the spot price.

So the answer to buying silver coins would appear to be to choose those with more (potential) desirability / limited mintages over generic bullion that is produced to demand.. 

[JohnA1]

On 18/10/2023 at 21:27, HillWalkerDundee said:

I am stacking silver as an insurance policy. People have car insurance, home insurance, life insurance etc. ..

Insurance against central bank greed and stupidity