Dealer buy back.

[RoughDog]

Dealer email offering 1% over spot to buy gold.

Does this mean we can expect a gold price jump soon?

 

I noticed they give more for 1oz Krugerrands and 1oz Britannias.  More than eagles, lunars, royal two dragons and some beasties

give even less for kangaroos and philharmonics.

given even less still for isle of man angel and the 2013 Britannia.

The maple they give the least of all. Bit of a surprise.

[James32]

30 minutes ago, RoughDog said:

Dealer email offering 1% over spot to buy gold.

Does this mean we can expect a gold price jump soon?

 

I noticed they give more for 1oz Krugerrands and 1oz Britannias.  More than eagles, lunars, royal two dragons and some beasties

give even less for kangaroos and philharmonics.

given even less still for isle of man angel and the 2013 Britannia.

The maple they give the least of all. Bit of a surprise.

That just tells me what their best seller's are?

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, RoughDog said:

Dealer email offering 1% over spot to buy gold.

Does this mean we can expect a gold price jump soon?

 

I noticed they give more for 1oz Krugerrands and 1oz Britannias.  More than eagles, lunars, royal two dragons and some beasties

give even less for kangaroos and philharmonics.

given even less still for isle of man angel and the 2013 Britannia.

The maple they give the least of all. Bit of a surprise.

1 hour ago, James32 said:

That just tells me what their best seller's are?

"Does this mean we can expect a gold price jump soon?"

No

James32 is very close.

Just means the dealer is struggling to get enough stock, and of those coins in particular.

If dealers were smart enough to be able to forecast a price jump, they could hedge it.

Most dealers cannot forecast future prices, or at least not reliably enough.

😎

[dicker]

For whatever reason, Karngaroos \ Nuggets (the earlier incarnation of the Aussie bullion 1oz) always seem to be cheaper.

I think the Nuggets in particular are great coins, and there are some hidden gems in some of the earlier mintages.

[GoldDiggerDave]

11 hours ago, RoughDog said:

Dealer email offering 1% over spot to buy gold.

Does this mean we can expect a gold price jump soon?

 

I noticed they give more for 1oz Krugerrands and 1oz Britannias.  More than eagles, lunars, royal two dragons and some beasties

give even less for kangaroos and philharmonics.

given even less still for isle of man angel and the 2013 Britannia.

The maple they give the least of all. Bit of a surprise.

It looks like short term offer to generate certain coins especially if they have already sold/allocated them to other customers and they are finding it difficult to get new stock.

This could just be the ripple effect of the recent spike in gold and it was reported some  gold dealers sold out of their stock in a day.  
 

As for gold price no one knows, I’m keeping an eye on interest rates as high rates have had a negative effect on gold as it becomes  attractive to have cash in the bank again, however all because this happened in the past it does not mean it will follow the same trend again.  
 

if I can get 7%+ returns from bonds or and ISA I will be tempted to hold more cash or tie it up for a 1-2 fixed at that rate, if interest rates increased got over 10% I would liquidate 75% of my bullion for cash savings as in this scenario I would be getting a very healthy return.

 

You have to have a plan for yourself as one persons strategy does not necessarily work for the next guy. 
 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by GoldDiggerDave

[RDHC]

1 hour ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

 

 

if I can get 7%+ returns from bonds or and ISA I will be tempted to hold more cash or tie it up for a 1-2 fixed at that rate, if interest rates increased got over 10% I would liquidate 75% of my bullion for cash savings as in this scenario I would be getting a very healthy return.

 

 

 

 

But is it not likely that the price of gold would have fallen because of the very high interest rates, so that you would lose in capital what you would gain from investing in those rates? However, as the saying goes, 'there's nothing so difficult to predict as the future'.

[GoldDiggerDave]

10 minutes ago, RDHC said:

But is it not likely that the price of gold would have fallen because of the very high interest rates, so that you would lose in capital what you would gain from investing in those rates? However, as the saying goes, 'there's nothing so difficult to predict as the future'.

That’s why I’d dump before the rates would go up too much.  Ie if the rates continue to rise I could release more gold bullion as the rates rise so it would be a rolling scale. 
 

Everything is a balancing act and it’s almost impossible to predict exactly where the cross over will be, or even if there is one.  We might see a bizarre scenario where interest rates are high yet gold remains buoyant more people out there are distrusting the banks more and you can only have 85k per financial institution of that’s protected…….problem with cash in the bank is a bail-in and that’s something I could see, attract everyone to liquidate some then nail everyone for 20% of their savings.

All I know about the financial future we will see nothing like it in history ie the death of physical cash.  
 

 

[LawrenceChard]

3 hours ago, dicker said:

For whatever reason, Karngaroos \ Nuggets (the earlier incarnation of the Aussie bullion 1oz) always seem to be cheaper.

I think the Nuggets in particular are great coins, and there are some hidden gems in some of the earlier mintages.

I am impressed that you typed Kangaroos with an Australian accent.

I agree that they are an interesting and attractive series. The fact that there is a different design (almost) every year enhaces their collectability, in my opinion.

A common problem occurs for dealers, though. 

If we buy in 100 Krugerrands, we can simply add 100 to our stock system, which takes about a minute. This means we can operate an efficient market for Krugerrands. Similar applies to many other "popular" or "common" coins, and also bars.

If we buy in one Australian nugget or Kangaroo, we have a slight problem. Is it a date and design we already have in our system. If so, then we can simply add 1 to our stock count. If not, then we may need to photograph it, write a concise description of it, create a "product" for it, with a unique product ID, and allocate it a bin location, so we know where to find it.  We also need a system to handle the efficient flow of all this. None of this is particulary difficult, but it might take an hour or two of staff time, and perhaps happen over a few days. While all this is reasonably efficient, it still requires about 100x more human resource than buying a single Krugerrand, and is at least 1,000 times less efficient or productive than buying 10 or 100 Krugerrands.

This is of course about dealing with a "commodity" versus an individual collectable item, but it helps to explain why dealers might pay a lower price / premium for a desirable individual item than for a much more common, and less attractive commodity item. It is counter-intuitive.

There is also marketing and promotion to consider. A high proportion of people have heard of gold sovereigns and Krugerrands. Although I am not aware of any formal survey, I am sure that fewer people have heard of Britannias, even in the UK. We still get people asking about buying Krugerrands, and we try to ascertain whether they have heard of Britannias, with their potential CGT advantage. Sometimes we meet with resistance, and perhaps customers suspect we are trying to "upsell" them into something more expensive and profitable, rather than simply trying to help them.

One tangential thought here, is that Britannias, apart from being a more attractive design, are nowadays a better colour since Rand Refineries started to make only red gold Krugerrands, making them even uglier than before. New Britannias are fine gold, but even the early ones had a silver content, so looked a lovely yellow gold colour.

Back to my main thread. So, even when we have processed our individual Nugget, it can sit in stock for months, or even years before anybody sees it on our website. Our staff don't remember it, because we have many thousands of individual coins, and in any case are so busy dealing with our volume business, without which we would probably cease to exist.

On peer to peer markets, such as the TSF forum, someone with a handful of individual coins can find buyers for them, and probably more easily than they could sell 100 Krugerrands. Do TSF sellers all offer "free postage"?

😎

[Darr3nG]

9 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Do TSF sellers all offer "free postage"?

Only a select few...  

[Oddjob]

9 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I am impressed that you typed Kangaroos with an Australian accent.

 

Correction: An Aussie accent wouldn't use the full word....Why use three syllables when "Roo" or "Kang" will do just fine. 😃

10 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

If we buy in one Australian nugget or Kangaroo, we have a slight problem. Is it a date and design we already have in our system. If so, then we can simply add 1 to our stock count. If not, then we may need to photograph it, write a concise description of it, create a "product" for it, with a unique product ID, and allocate it a bin location, so we know where to find it.  We also need a system to handle the efficient flow of all this. None of this is particulary difficult, but it might take an hour or two of staff time, and perhaps happen over a few days. While all this is reasonably efficient, it still requires about 100x more human resource than buying a single Krugerrand, and is at least 1,000 times less efficient or productive than buying 10 or 100 Krugerrands.

😎

I thought being from the land that perfected and exported bureaucracy & redtape across the world, that Chards employees would relish the opportunity to catalogue, index, cross reference then file away in the bowels of Chard's HQ. What better way to spend your day. 😃😃

[LawrenceChard]

27 minutes ago, Oddjob said:

Correction: An Aussie accent wouldn't use the full word....Why use three syllables when "Roo" or "Kang" will do just fine. 😃

I thought being from the land that perfected and exported bureaucracy & redtape across the world, that Chards employees would relish the opportunity to catalogue, index, cross reference then file away in the bowels of Chard's HQ. What better way to spend your day. 😃😃

There is a difference between an Australian and an Australian accent, but thats a good point you made.

I was wondering what a phonetic spelling of an Aussie accented "Kangaroo" and "Nugget" would be.

Some bureaucracy is useful and desirable, although in many ways I miss the old "chaos" system in which I often knew we had something, but nobody had seen it for many years, and nobody could find it when somebody ordered it.

"Bowels?"

😎

[Oddjob]

10 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

"Bowels?"

😎

bowels in British English

(ˈbaʊəlz )

plural noun

1. 

innards; entrails

2.  literary

the deep or innermost part (esp in the phrase the bowels of the earth)

deep in the bowels of the earth

Lawrence went off into the dark bowels of the building to locate a 1oz gold Roo.

3.  archaic

the emotions, esp of pity or sympathy

Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

[LawrenceChard]

8 minutes ago, Oddjob said:

bowels in British English

(ˈbaʊəlz )

plural noun

1. 

innards; entrails

2.  literary

the deep or innermost part (esp in the phrase the bowels of the earth)

deep in the bowels of the earth

Lawrence went off into the dark bowels of the building to locate a 1oz gold Roo.

3.  archaic

the emotions, esp of pity or sympathy

Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

Sure, and thanks for posting those definitions, of which I was fully aware. It's just that there are other meaning of the word, including:

"The bowel. The bowel is part of the digestive system. It is made up of the small bowel (small intestine) and the large bowel (colon and rectum). The small bowel is longer than the large bowel but it gets its name from the fact it is much narrower than the large bowel."

To avoid ambiguity about where our stock is stored, I would normally chose to use a different word.

😎

[Stu]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

I am impressed that you typed Kangaroos with an Australian accent.

I agree that they are an interesting and attractive series. The fact that there is a different design (almost) every year enhaces their collectability, in my opinion.

A common problem occurs for dealers, though. 

If we buy in 100 Krugerrands, we can simply add 100 to our stock system, which takes about a minute. This means we can operate an efficient market for Krugerrands. Similar applies to many other "popular" or "common" coins, and also bars.

If we buy in one Australian nugget or Kangaroo, we have a slight problem. Is it a date and design we already have in our system. If so, then we can simply add 1 to our stock count. If not, then we may need to photograph it, write a concise description of it, create a "product" for it, with a unique product ID, and allocate it a bin location, so we know where to find it.  We also need a system to handle the efficient flow of all this. None of this is particulary difficult, but it might take an hour or two of staff time, and perhaps happen over a few days. While all this is reasonably efficient, it still requires about 100x more human resource than buying a single Krugerrand, and is at least 1,000 times less efficient or productive than buying 10 or 100 Krugerrands.

This is of course about dealing with a "commodity" versus an individual collectable item, but it helps to explain why dealers might pay a lower price / premium for a desirable individual item than for a much more common, and less attractive commodity item. It is counter-intuitive.

There is also marketing and promotion to consider. A high proportion of people have heard of gold sovereigns and Krugerrands. Although I am not aware of any formal survey, I am sure that fewer people have heard of Britannias, even in the UK. We still get people asking about buying Krugerrands, and we try to ascertain whether they have heard of Britannias, with their potential CGT advantage. Sometimes we meet with resistance, and perhaps customers suspect we are trying to "upsell" them into something more expensive and profitable, rather than simply trying to help them.

One tangential thought here, is that Britannias, apart from being a more attractive design, are nowadays a better colour since Rand Refineries started to make only red gold Krugerrands, making them even uglier than before. New Britannias are fine gold, but even the early ones had a silver content, so looked a lovely yellow gold colour.

Back to my main thread. So, even when we have processed our individual Nugget, it can sit in stock for months, or even years before anybody sees it on our website. Our staff don't remember it, because we have many thousands of individual coins, and in any case are so busy dealing with our volume business, without which we would probably cease to exist.

On peer to peer markets, such as the TSF forum, someone with a handful of individual coins can find buyers for them, and probably more easily than they could sell 100 Krugerrands. Do TSF sellers all offer "free postage"?

😎

Or you could just bung them under one weight heading eg 1/4oz gold Aussie nugget/Roo like HGM did in the good ol days, call it a lucky dip/various years. Assuming you buy all at the same price and don’t select the rarer for individual sales. Tough life being a coin dealer. 

[James32]

Just now, LawrenceChard said:

Sure, and thanks for posting those definitions, of which I was fully aware. It's just that there are other meaning of the word, including:

"The bowel. The bowel is part of the digestive system. It is made up of the small bowel (small intestine) and the large bowel (colon and rectum). The small bowel is longer than the large bowel but it gets its name from the fact it is much narrower than the large bowel."

To avoid ambiguity about where our stock is stored, I would normally chose to use a different word.

😎

If my coins have been stored in my bowel, do I still get 1% above spot?

[LawrenceChard]

2 minutes ago, Stu said:

Or you could just bung them under one weight heading eg 1/4oz gold Aussie nugget/Roo like HGM did in the good ol days, call it a lucky dip/various years. Assuming you buy all at the same price and don’t select the rarer for individual sales. Tough life being a coin dealer. 

We do also operate an "our choice" category, and have done since about 1964.

Creating an IT system to replicate this while also retaining the individual categories is not simple or straightforward, although I feel sure that some TSF member who are also IT professionals, like @Darr3nG would tell me how easy it is.

You are right about it being a tough life being a coin dealer. Sometimes I think it is all getting too much for me!

😎

7 minutes ago, James32 said:

If my coins have been stored in my bowel, do I still get 1% above spot?

Do any of them have "red spot"?

😎

[Britannia47]

40 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

There is a difference between an Australian and an Australian accent, but thats a good point you made.

I was wondering what a phonetic spelling of an Aussie accented "Kangaroo" and "Nugget" would be.

Some bureaucracy is useful and desirable, although in many ways I miss the old "chaos" system in which I often knew we had something, but nobody had seen it for many years, and nobody could find it when somebody ordered it.

"Bowels?"

😎

Howzabout  a 'NUGGEROO!' ?

When I was at the Perth Mint there was a story going around about some well dressed dude acting suspiciously next to the One Tonne gold Kangaroo - thought to have been a male model from Northern England!

Anyone we Know?

Sorry, couldn't resist the photo. Love the Aussies and still will when Australia is annexed by China!

 

[Darr3nG]

23 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Creating an IT system to replicate this while also retaining the individual categories is not simple or straightforward

Easy peasy, lemon squeezy

[LawrenceChard]

10 minutes ago, Darr3nG said:

Easy peasy, lemon squeezy

It's easy to say, but...

😎

[Smiler999]

I myself love the Australian Kangaroo series, though I can't fathom why some dealers go mad with prices for coins only a couple years old, in a forgotten bin....

😎

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, Smiler999 said:

I myself love the Australian Kangaroo series, though I can't fathom why some dealers go mad with prices for coins only a couple years old, in a forgotten bin....

😎

Supply and demand?

And...

Have you seen some of the prices which greedy ebay b******s ask for coins, regardless of whether they are genuine or fake, minty or damaged?

😎

[Silverlocks]

59 minutes ago, Smiler999 said:

I myself love the Australian Kangaroo series, though I can't fathom why some dealers go mad with prices for coins only a couple years old, in a forgotten bin....

😎

I think most of what Perth Mint make is essentially collectibles.  The silver dollaridoo stays the same but pretty much everything else - including gold kangas - seems to change with every year.  One could spend quite a lot of money keeping up with Perth Mint collectibles.

Having said that, their quality is superb - their brilliant uncirculated coins might as well be proofs.

[RoughDog]

20 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

"Does this mean we can expect a gold price jump soon?"

No

James32 is very close.

Just means the dealer is struggling to get enough stock, and of those coins in particular.

If dealers were smart enough to be able to forecast a price jump, they could hedge it.

Most dealers cannot forecast future prices, or at least not reliably enough.

😎

Not knowing.  I would assume the mint is able to supply Britannias to the dealer in short notice.

Interesting.

[Silverlocks]

1 minute ago, RoughDog said:

Not knowing.  I would assume the mint is able to supply Britannias to the dealer in short notice.

Interesting.

It would depend on their lead time to get planchets.  I doubt even the Royal Mint has the cash to maintain a stockpile of (say) a ton of gold on the offchance that they might see a spike in demand.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Silverlocks

[RoughDog]

6 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

We do also operate an "our choice" category, and have done since about 1964.

Creating an IT system to replicate this while also retaining the individual categories is not simple or straightforward, although I feel sure that some TSF member who are also IT professionals, like @Darr3nG would tell me how easy it is.

You are right about it being a tough life being a coin dealer. Sometimes I think it is all getting too much for me!

😎

Do any of them have "red spot"?

😎

The predator coin has 3 red dots.  🤣