Silver Sovereigns - What Next?

[LawrenceChard]

OK, "silver sovereigns" are not exactly new. We noticed the so-called London Mint Office offering the World's first silver sovereign coin 3 years ago, in 2019.

It was issued in the name of Gibraltar, and dated 2019.

Sovereigns have always been gold coins, ever since 1489. For most of this time, they were a UK coin, but since 1855, gold sovereigns were struck at the Sydney Mint in Australia. Other branches of the Royal Mint also struck gold sovereigns, for circulation in the UK, and also locally. Branch mints included Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Ottawa, Bombay, and Pretoria; and the countries involved were Australia, Canada, India, and South Africa.

On 29th August 2012, the Royal Mint applied for a trademark on the word SOVEREIGN as a trade mark for ‘gold commemorative coins’. This was initially rejected by the Copyright Office, and was also opposed by The Commonwealth Mint & Philatelic Bureau Limited (“CMB”).

On the  3rd March 2016, the Intellectual Property Office Registrar ruled in favour of CMB, and against the Royal Mint. There were a number of reasons given, but these included that sovereigns had previously neen issued by the other countries mentioned, and also Andorra, Isle of Man, and Tristan da Cunha.

I can also add that Fiji issued one ounce gold Pacific sovereigns from 2009.

I suppose it was only a matter of time before some mint or coin marketing company decided to extend sovereigns beyond being gold coins, to other metals, hence the "silver sovereign". I think this is regrettable, but it has happened and is a fact.

It may be only a matter of time, before we get copper sovereigns, brass sovereigns, aluminium sovereigns, steel sovereigns, nickel sovereigns, plastic sovereigns, platinumsovereigns, and who knows what?

For those not familiar with the 2019 silver sovereign:

 

At the moment, I am not sure who mints these for LMO, but while researching for this post, I noticed:

On a Google Image search.

Clicking through to it revealed:

It looks to me tha the ebay seller santoor-uk located in Salford, Greater Manchester, United Kingdom, has made an incorrect assumption that they are minted by The Royal Mint, probably being confused, as many people are by "The London Mint Office".

Not untypically, for an ebay seller, he is asking £250 for them, comparing with LMO's original price of £49.95

I was going to include more "silver sovereigns", but I think this is enough for now. More to follow...

😎

[James32]

I often think if they "HARIBO MINT" came out with a line of gummy sovereigns, they would sell extremely well!

[StackemHigh]

One of the £20 for £20 coins by the rm did look a whole lot like a silver sovereign.

I think it was the first one in the series 2013.

Edited June 2, 2022 by StackemHigh

[TheShinyStuff]

1 hour ago, StackemHigh said:

One of the £20 for £20 coins by the rm did look a whole lot like a silver sovereign.

I think it was the first one in the series 2013.

That was a nice coin to be fair. Not a sovereign, but nice all the same.

[SovereignBishop]

So how exactly do companies get away with producing fake coins with our monarch on ? Always wondered.

 

also of note

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2018327/the-london-mint-office-scam

And most saddening of all

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5557600/london-mint-coins

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by SovereignBishop

[SidS]

To be honest I don't recognise any of these as 'coins' in the strictest sense. I see them as bullion rounds, which purport to be something of better quality than they in fact are.

Proper gold can sell itself, lesser 'gold' products often come with a shovelful of hype. (Or silver in the case you highlight)

I often look at pocket watch chains on eBay and note the difference:

Example A - "9ct gold Albert chain."

Example B - "SOLID 14k gold Albert chain. Suberb condition, antique, l@@k!!! Rolled gold with ten year warranty."

A is real gold and needs nothing nothing else to sell it, B is just base metal c**p with a thin sliver of gold in it.

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, SidS said:

Example B - "SOLID 14k gold Albert chain. Suberb condition, antique, l@@k!!! Rolled gold with ten year warranty."

A is real gold and needs nothing nothing else to sell it, B is just base metal c**p with a thin sliver of gold in it.

Typical ebay description. HTF can anything be ""SOLID 14k gold ... Rolled gold"?

Might as well say "genuine fake"!

... and while I'me at it, does anybody else detest "l@@k!!" and similar "clever" stuff?

 

[LawrenceChard]

12 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

OK, "silver sovereigns" are not exactly new. We noticed the so-called London Mint Office offering the World's first silver sovereign coin 3 years ago, in 2019.

It was issued in the name of Gibraltar, and dated 2019.

Sovereigns have always been gold coins, ever since 1489. For most of this time, they were a UK coin, but since 1855, gold sovereigns were struck at the Sydney Mint in Australia. Other branches of the Royal Mint also struck gold sovereigns, for circulation in the UK, and also locally. Branch mints included Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Ottawa, Bombay, and Pretoria; and the countries involved were Australia, Canada, India, and South Africa.

On 29th August 2012, the Royal Mint applied for a trademark on the word SOVEREIGN as a trade mark for ‘gold commemorative coins’. This was initially rejected by the Copyright Office, and was also opposed by The Commonwealth Mint & Philatelic Bureau Limited (“CMB”).

On the  3rd March 2016, the Intellectual Property Office Registrar ruled in favour of CMB, and against the Royal Mint. There were a number of reasons given, but these included that sovereigns had previously neen issued by the other countries mentioned, and also Andorra, Isle of Man, and Tristan da Cunha.

I can also add that Fiji issued one ounce gold Pacific sovereigns from 2009.

I suppose it was only a matter of time before some mint or coin marketing company decided to extend sovereigns beyond being gold coins, to other metals, hence the "silver sovereign". I think this is regrettable, but it has happened and is a fact.

It may be only a matter of time, before we get copper sovereigns, brass sovereigns, aluminium sovereigns, steel sovereigns, nickel sovereigns, plastic sovereigns, platinumsovereigns, and who knows what?

For those not familiar with the 2019 silver sovereign:

At the moment, I am not sure who mints these for LMO, but while researching for this post, I noticed:

On a Google Image search.

Clicking through to it revealed:

It looks to me tha the ebay seller santoor-uk located in Salford, Greater Manchester, United Kingdom, has made an incorrect assumption that they are minted by The Royal Mint, probably being confused, as many people are by "The London Mint Office".

Not untypically, for an ebay seller, he is asking £250 for them, comparing with LMO's original price of £49.95

I was going to include more "silver sovereigns", but I think this is enough for now. More to follow...

😎

 

11 hours ago, StackemHigh said:

One of the £20 for £20 coins by the rm did look a whole lot like a silver sovereign.

I think it was the first one in the series 2013.

 

10 hours ago, TheShinyStuff said:

That was a nice coin to be fair. Not a sovereign, but nice all the same.

IF you didn't fancy paying £49.95 for a 2019 PROOF silver sovereign, LMO also offered a B.U. one for £10

(Well actually £12.95 including postage, and I suspect you can't call in and collect one):

I was going to include details of the weight, and therefore the silver content, but had failed to capture it in the screenshot.

No problem, just go back to the London Mint Office page to check:

****ing Useless

Anyone would think they didn't want anyone to know!

😎

[Stuntman]

Regrettable indeed.  At least people who are well-informed enough to find The Silver Forum will know about these 'sovereigns', and be able to make their own decisions with their eyes open.

[LawrenceChard]

On 15/08/2021 at 13:28, CollectorNo1 said:

If they were made of Haribo jelly.. I'd buy them..🙂🙂🙂

 

12 hours ago, James32 said:

I often think if they "HARIBO MINT" came out with a line of gummy sovereigns, they would sell extremely well!

By popular request:

Of course, we might get into trouble with the Royal Mint over the use of their Registered Trade Mark "Minty"!

I suspect they may taste ****ing horrible.

😎

[SidS]

2 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

 

By popular request:

Of course, we might get into trouble with the Royal Mint over the use of their Registered Trade Mark "Minty"!

I suspect they may taste ****ing horrible.

😎

Also available in coppery brown... I mean gold.

Edited June 3, 2022 by SidS

[SidS]

39 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Typical ebay description. HTF can anything be ""SOLID 14k gold ... Rolled gold"?

Might as well say "genuine fake"!

... and while I'me at it, does anybody else detest "l@@k!!" and similar "clever" stuff?

 

Totally agree!

[LawrenceChard]

41 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I suspect they may taste ****ing horrible.

😎

Did you know the Chinese for "horrible" is "haribo"?

😎

[TheShinyStuff]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

 

 

😎

When I said I wad a nice coin I meant this one

 

not the LMO effort...

[TeaTime]

I sometimes wonder if the collectability of the £20 coin featuring George and the dragon (released by the RM) has been held back by the 'legal tender' debacle.

It's a handsome lump of silver and, personally, i like them - and always considered them as silver sovereigns . 

[Stuntman]

I like those 2013 silver £20 coins too.  I have kept a couple.

[LawrenceChard]

3 hours ago, TheShinyStuff said:

When I said I wad a nice coin I meant this one

not the LMO effort...

I realised that, and was looking for a good (Chards) photo of one.

😎

[CANV]

Oh good god no….  Please no..   

[LawrenceChard]

24 minutes ago, CANV said:

Oh good god no….  Please no..   

It's always good for reference, plus it's worth adding a scan or photo of the info on the card or certificate.

😎

[Tortoise]

7 hours ago, Stuntman said:

I like those 2013 silver £20 coins too.  I have kept a couple.

I have one.  They do indeed look good.  However, the last time I look at it, it had started to go black on the edge, despite still being fully sealed in the original packaging.

I guess someone at the RM handled it without gloves. 😟

[LawrenceChard]

11 hours ago, Tortoise said:

I have one.  They do indeed look good.  However, the last time I look at it, it had started to go black on the edge, despite still being fully sealed in the original packaging.

I guess someone at the RM handled it without gloves. 😟

Perhaps the RM have mastered a new form of Built In Obsolescence for coins.

After 10 years, they go black, then disintegrate, so you have to buy another brand new one!

😎

Edited June 4, 2022 by LawrenceChard

[LawrenceChard]

On 03/06/2022 at 13:09, TheShinyStuff said:

When I said I wad a nice coin I meant this one

 

not the LMO effort...

 

On 03/06/2022 at 13:47, TeaTime said:

I sometimes wonder if the collectability of the £20 coin featuring George and the dragon (released by the RM) has been held back by the 'legal tender' debacle.

It's a handsome lump of silver and, personally, i like them - and always considered them as silver sovereigns . 

 

On 03/06/2022 at 15:05, Stuntman said:

I like those 2013 silver £20 coins too.  I have kept a couple.

Found one:

2013 UK Silver £20 Coin Reverse

2013 UK Silver £20 Coin Obverse

2013 UK Silver £20 Coin Reverse  in RM Presentation Card

In retrospect, perhaps it would have been better for the Royal Mint to call this a silver sovereign, rather than let others beat them to it.

😎

Version	Alloy	Weight	AMW	Issue
Silver	0.999 Silver	15.71 grams	0.5045	250,000

Source: https://www.chards.co.uk/2013-george-and-the-dragon-twenty-pounds-silver-bu-coin/2790

 

 

[CANV]

Surely a proper silver sovereign should be 22 carat silver .  Maybe add some gold to the mix 

[SidS]

10 hours ago, CANV said:

Surely a proper silver sovereign should be 22 carat silver .  Maybe add some gold to the mix 

No it's not gold. 22ct silver, the rest is copper, always copper.

Except for the 'copper' coins, where it's mostly steel.

[dicker]

Most amusingly Julian Chamberlain found that he could not use one to pay for his entry to the Royal Mint.

Says all you need to know.