When Is a Sovereign Not a Sovereign?

[LawrenceChard]

I just thought I would ask When Is a Sovereign Not a Sovereign?:

Juno the answer?

😎

[MickB]

You been chewing on them?

[LawrenceChard]

Just now, MickB said:

You been chewing on them?

Bit Coins!

😎

[Britannia47]

So much for the Brits and Canadians, but where did  the Americans on Omaha and Utah get to?  Gone to Cherbourg for lunch - Tom Hanks buying?

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

I just thought I would ask When Is a Sovereign Not a Sovereign?:

Juno the answer?

😎

When it's a $10:

These are from East Caribbean Territories

😎

 

[Roy]

It's pity the Royal Mint didn't melt down 23,000,000 of these instead. 

Minted under licence I suppose,  who signed that off?

Dreadful.

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, Roy said:

It's pity the Royal Mint didn't melt down 23,000,000 of these instead. 

Minted under licence I suppose,  who signed that off?

Dreadful.

No, these were not made under license from the Royal Mint.

They were marketed by Hattons of London.

They had a TV advert for them at the time, and the quarter sovereign was £99, which would make the 3 coin set about £700, although they use some strange dual pricing systems.

Probably made by the "Commonwealth Mint".

"The world's first gold quarter sovereign with a contoured edge has been launched on TV
24th June 2019

Now, in 2019, we mark the 75th Anniversary of D-Day with an innovative gold quarter sovereign coin, the first ever to be produced with a contoured edge, matching the shape of ‘Gold’ beach where British troops led the attack on D-Day. It’s the first of its kind, ever."

 

[modofantasma]

I used to own one of those quarter sovs 🤣 it came at a very low premium from a dealer but I have since parted ways with it.

[HerefordBullyun]

When its a britannia!

[KevjustKev]

18 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Bit Coins!

😎

Back of the class lad

[LawrenceChard]

15 hours ago, Roy said:

It's pity the Royal Mint didn't melt down 23,000,000 of these instead. 

Minted under licence I suppose,  who signed that off?

Dreadful.

I agree.

It would have been great to have been able to sort through them first.

Seriously, there could have been treasures and rarities in there.

But in any case, why melt down perfectly good sovereigns, to turn them into Britannias. Sell the sovereigns, and buy gold bars to use for the new Britannias.

 

[LawrenceChard]

On 23/05/2022 at 13:48, LawrenceChard said:

I just thought I would ask When Is a Sovereign Not a Sovereign?:

Juno the answer?

😎

We also photographed the certificate for this set:

It is more than interesting that the certificate fails to state the denomination, which I believe is $10 for what Hattons describe as a sovereign, $5 for the "half sovereign", and $2.50 for the "quarter sovereign". Could this be because they do not want to draw attention to the fact that calling them sovereigns, etc, is misleading, and therefore their adverts were also misleading?

I suspect so!

😎

[dicker]

Shame these were not some of the 20 million that the RM put in the melting pot!

[LawrenceChard]

23 hours ago, Roy said:

It's pity the Royal Mint didn't melt down 23,000,000 of these instead. 

Minted under licence I suppose,  who signed that off?

Dreadful.

 

10 minutes ago, dicker said:

Shame these were not some of the 20 million that the RM put in the melting pot!

Great minds think alike!

😎

[Roy]

I seem to recall the Royal Mint had the copyright on 'sovereign', at least where coins were concerned? *

Perhaps someone who knows about copyright claims and has dealt with the mint before could comment? 😎

 

* I once owned a Daimler Sovereign, 4.2 manual with triple carbs. 

Replaced it with a Daimler 'Double-Six' but sadly had to sell it when fuel hit £2 a gallon. 😔

[Britannia47]

Marketing companies and their mints have been ‘misleading’ the general public for sometime now,  but legally so. The RM does not have exclusive use of the ‘Sovereign’ name under Intellectual property law. That battle was lost in the High Court. 
 

[Seasider]

Surely Perth Mint have been producing Australian "Sovereigns" for years with a $25 denomination.  Why are we getting worked up about these coins?

[LawrenceChard]

22 hours ago, Roy said:

I seem to recall the Royal Mint had the copyright on 'sovereign', at least where coins were concerned? *

Perhaps someone who knows about copyright claims and has dealt with the mint before could comment? 😎

 

* I once owned a Daimler Sovereign, 4.2 manual with triple carbs. 

Replaced it with a Daimler 'Double-Six' but sadly had to sell it when fuel hit £2 a gallon. 😔

 

22 hours ago, Britannia47 said:

Marketing companies and their mints have been ‘misleading’ the general public for sometime now,  but legally so. The RM does not have exclusive use of the ‘Sovereign’ name under Intellectual property law. That battle was lost in the High Court. 
 

 

4 hours ago, Seasider said:

Surely Perth Mint have been producing Australian "Sovereigns" for years with a $25 denomination.  Why are we getting worked up about these coins?

The RM did apparently think it had IP rights to the word "sovereign" as applied to coins, but not a copyright.

They tried to stop Pobjoy Mint using the word, and their case failed, probably because they had not "trademarked"

Also see https://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-challenge-decision-results/o10816.pdf v THE COMMONWEALTH MINT & PHILATELIC BUREAU LIMITED

Part of the legal case was the previous use by other domains / mints for their sovereigns.

After the twin carbs on my Lamborghini Espada, I went low carb.

I'm not getting worked up, merely amused, but also somewhat bemused by them having dual denominations.

In the case of Perth Mint, at least they do have a history of making gold sovereigns, since 1899 in fact, although Sydney Mint strarted earlier.

😎

 

[LawrenceChard]

More "funny" sovereigns:

Square(ish) one this time.

The world's first ever square sovereigns"

2019 TDC Tristaan da Cunha

Set of three in box

At least they actually say "Tristan da Cunha" instead of TDC!

😎

[Roy]

On 25/05/2022 at 10:04, LawrenceChard said:

After the twin carbs on my Lamborghini Espada, I went low carb.

Have you ever owned a Jaguar @LawrenceChard?

 

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, Roy said:

Have you ever owned a Jaguar @LawrenceChard?

 

Yes, an E Type in 1969.

It was OK at the time, but that was about all.

😎

[Britannia47]

Back to the original question 'When is a sovereign....?  the obvious answer is - When it's not minted by the RM or the overseas branches. Whilst I support all the British Overseas Territories ie;  Gibraltar, St Helena, Ascension, Falklands, TDC, East Caribbean etc, (having been to all of them except TDC) the marketing companies seem to  sponsor the weirdest designs, with perhaps the exception of the East India company, and the Pobjoy Mints' sovereign IMO. As for for those tiny 0.5 g coins - don't get me started...😈!!

[StackemHigh]

I remember seeing a Pacific sovereign at some point too.

[Scootermuppet]

On 23/05/2022 at 19:08, Roy said:

It's pity the Royal Mint didn't melt down 23,000,000 of these instead. 

Minted under licence I suppose,  who signed that off?

Dreadful.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but when did this happen…? 🤔 not something I was aware of

[stefffana]

I want to ask if this Perth Mint Centenary Sovereign is a sovereign or not?😁

With inner piece having the same specifications of a real sovereign with proof details and an outer ring made of pure silver and face value of 100 australian dollars, will qualify as a rare sovereign in a respectable sovereigns collection, or as a curiosity in a miscellaneous collection?

It is described as sovereign or sovereign bi-metallic on respectable sites as Chard https://taxfreegold.co.uk/1999australianproofcentenarysovereign.html or on other sites as CoinParade https://coinparade.co.uk/1999-perth-mint-centenary-gold-proof-bi-metallic-sovereign/ . I couldn't find Numista page for this coin, I am sorry.

What do you think about this sovereign?