Victoria Gothic Silver Crown 1847

[thanasis]

Hello forum,

Recently I came across a seller who is offering a Victoria Gothic Silver Crown.

Seeing as I don't have much experience, I would like you to help me determine whether or not this piece is authentic.

I am uploading the photos for you to examine the coin.

[Zhorro]

It looks superb, but I am not an expert on this coin.

[CollectorNo1]

It looks in amazing condition...maybe too good...appears to have been cleaned..but like @Zhorro I'm not an expert on this coin.

[dicker]

What an absolutely stunning coin.  Personally, I would have no issue buying this.

The photos may be misleading but it has a distinctly gold tinge to it (many are more 'pewter' coloured in toning) BUT there are similar out there I have come across that have a similar toning - quite light - which adds to the eye appeal AND are graded - meaning they have NOT been cleaned.

I don't specialise in this coin so others may want to comment - but I would have this any day over one of the modern engravers series.

This will not be a cheap coin - if you buy this enjoy.

Best

Dicker

 

[sovereignsteve]

Looks fabulous, nice toning but I have no idea about artificial toning issues. I have never seen a really good fake nor do I know anyone who is expert on this coin.

Assuming genuine it is very valuable in this condition and needs stabbing by PCGS ideally or NGC.

[sovereignsteve]

24 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

...appears to have been cleaned..

I am genuinely interested what features make you say this

[richatthecroft]

As others have said- it looks superb.  

The toning in keeping with other examples I have seen- from photos- such as this beautiful example:  https://atlasnumismatics.com/1064239/

28 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

It looks in amazing condition...maybe too good...appears to have been cleaned..but like @Zhorro I'm not an expert on this coin.

 

2 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

I am genuinely interested what features make you say this

 

Me too

[richatthecroft]

1 hour ago, thanasis said:

Hello forum,

Recently I came across a seller who is offering a Victoria Gothic Silver Crown.

Seeing as I don't have much experience, I would like you to help me determine whether or not this piece is authentic.

I am uploading the photos for you to examine the coin.

Thanks for sharing- please let us know what you decide to do- I know exactly what I would do, funds permitting 😃

[dicker]

Just now, richatthecroft said:

Thanks for sharing- please let us know what you decide to do- I know exactly what I would do, funds permitting 😃

Yes...really is an outstanding coin.

[Stuntman]

I don't see any obvious red flags for this coin based on the photos and the toning.  I don't think it's been cleaned either.  

I have seen quite a few of these coins in the flesh at coin fairs but I am not an expert on gothic crowns and I don't have one myself.  

If genuine it's an absolute belter and I would expect it to cost well over £4k from a dealer.

[dicker]

Sovereign Rarities have one roughly similar and they are estimating GBP5-7K

[CosmikDebris]

1847, does it have an edge inscription reading Undecimo or Septimo or is it plain? Amazing coin by the way!

[CollectorNo1]

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

I am genuinely interested what features make you say this

The whitish marks near vickys face also the top of the rim on the reverse looks clean and untonned compared to the rest of the coin.

Probably the lighting....no one can really judge a coin from a photo,it needs to be in hand and examined with the human eye...and a lupe..🤗

[LawrenceChard]

7 hours ago, thanasis said:

Hello forum,

Recently I came across a seller who is offering a Victoria Gothic Silver Crown.

Seeing as I don't have much experience, I would like you to help me determine whether or not this piece is authentic.

I am uploading the photos for you to examine the coin.

In my opinion and experience, it's better to name the dealer / seller. There are a number of good reasons for this.

Sometimes this can answer the question.

The only downside is that someone might jump in and buy it while you are getting opinions.

😎

 

[CollectorNo1]

10 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

In my opinion and experience, it's better to name the dealer / seller. There are a number of good reasons for this.

Sometimes this can answer the question.

The only downside is that someone might jump in and buy it while you are getting opinions.

😎

 

Oooooooooo  Dangerous ⛑😆

[Stuntman]

5 hours ago, CosmikDebris said:

1847, does it have an edge inscription reading Undecimo or Septimo or is it plain? Amazing coin by the way!

As an 1847, it should have Undecimo on the edge.

[Stuntman]

46 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

In my opinion and experience, it's better to name the dealer / seller. There are a number of good reasons for this.

Sometimes this can answer the question.

The only downside is that someone might jump in and buy it while you are getting opinions.

😎

 

I agree with this.  Perhaps a good course of action would be to contact the dealer to reserve the coin, while you discuss it with the dealer in more detail.  Alternatively, ask if you can have the coin on approval or at the very least be able to return it within a period of time (provided you post it using a secure method of delivery and fully insured).  

A reputable dealer should be able to offer you this kind of service, especially given the likely purchase price..

Good luck with your decision 🙂

[richatthecroft]

5 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

Perhaps a good course of action would be to contact the dealer to reserve the coin, while you discuss it with the dealer in more detail.  Alternatively, ask if you can have the coin on approval or at the very least be able to return it within a period of time (provided you post it using a secure method of delivery and fully insured).  

A reputable dealer should be able to offer you this kind of service, especially given the likely purchase price..

 

Good advice- on the several occasions that I have made sizeable purchases from different dealers- all have obliged with reservation while I decided and all reassured me that if I wasn't happy, that I could return the coin/ sets that I have purchased.   

[CollectorNo1]

37 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

As an 1847, it should have Undecimo on the edge.

The plain edge is the more rarer one!!

[Stuntman]

^^^ Indeed.  The plain edge is much rarer 🙂

The London Coins website is always useful for comparative images and recent auction sale prices:

https://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&searchterm=Gothic+Crown+1847&category=9&searchtype=1

[Bruce06]

Astonishing, i think everyone would love to have.  Better to view it in person, if allow, with such a sizeable amount of purchase.

[thanasis]

Thank you everyone for your input!

I suppose @Stuntman gave me great advice concerning the best course of action on this.

@LawrenceChardYes indeed! I have thought about it, too! So if anyone is interested for the seller's name I will tell them is Mike Litoris...😁

As for the coin, does anyone have any experience with fake ones and certain telltale signs? Not necessarily for this specimen, but things to look out for in old silver coins?

[richatthecroft]

1 minute ago, thanasis said:

@LawrenceChardYes indeed! I have thought about it, too! So if anyone is interested for the seller's name I will tell them is Mike Litoris...😁

I hear that Mr Seymore Butts has one for sale too 👍 

[SidS]

Looks genuine to me.

A stunning coin, very crisp details.

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, thanasis said:

Thank you everyone for your input!

I suppose @Stuntman gave me great advice concerning the best course of action on this.

@LawrenceChardYes indeed! I have thought about it, too! So if anyone is interested for the seller's name I will tell them is Mike Litoris...😁

As for the coin, does anyone have any experience with fake ones and certain telltale signs? Not necessarily for this specimen, but things to look out for in old silver coins?

 

1 hour ago, richatthecroft said:

I hear that Mr Seymore Butts has one for sale too 👍 

As someone already said, it is not easy to be absolutely certain from photographs, but...

If anyone can create fakes which look as good as that, they could command a top job at almost any mint in the world.

Regarding the names, is Mike Litoris the same person who changed his name from Michael Hunt. (There is a hilarious local true story about this imaginery person).

If so, I wouldn't buy anything from that country bumpkin. (I just lost an argument with my spell-checker).

I do have considerable experience with old silver coins, fakes, and more, but it would take half a lifetime to relay this information, much of which I have already published on our websites, old and new, or in YouTube videos.

One important factor is provenance, which includes who is offering the coin for sale.

If someone told me they had bought a similar coin from the late Paul Dawson, I could safely pronounce it genuine without inspecting it, whereas if it was from ebay or the guy in the pub, then I would say it was 99% certain to be fake.

😎