Taking gold coins out of UK on a plane - what forms to complete?

[noddycoder]

Hi,

Hope someone can help: I'm planning on carrying a bunch of gold Brits on a plane out of Heathrow in the near future, taking them to the EU as a gift to my son. The value will be north of £10K. I have all receipts, bank statements, customs declaration forms for the EU country I'll be flying to. The coins will be in hand luggage.

But I don't know what UK forms I'll need to provide Heathrow Border Force when I go through airport security. I contacted HMRC Exports and a nice chap told me (and confirmed by email) that all I have to do is provide an "oral declaration" together with supporting documentation (receipts and bank statements).

I contacted Heathrow Border Force and a BF officer told me I need to fill in a C88 Export Declaration form, and gave me a copy of the form and a list of UK agents who can help me prepare the form. 

I contacted an export agent on the list of UK agents, and he told me form C88 is for businesses only, and that I, as a private individual  carrying personal property, don't need to fill it in.

There is an online cash declaration form on the HMRC website that I plan on completing and taking with me.

Any ideas re. what declaration docs are needed to fly from a UK airport with a bunch of gold bullion coins and clear UK customs?

Thank you.

Edited August 27, 2021 by noddycoder

[Foster88]

I can’t help nor can I say what forms you might need to fill out.

The best gold you can move between countries, in my opinion is gold you can wear.

I’m sure another forum memeber can advise you further but this is the reason why I buy 22ct jewellery.

No, I’m not Mr T. 😬

[Foster88]

On a serious note, this is a good question to ask post Brexit and I hope you find the answer you’re looking for.

This is a great forum and I’m sure someone more experience than myself can advise you.

[stackerp5]

1 hour ago, Foster88 said:

but this is the reason why I buy 22ct jewellery.

No, I’m not Mr T. 😬

If you don't mind me asking, where do you buy 22ct jewelry? I imagine it's a relatively low premium compared to lower carats correct?

[dicker]

All I can tell you is that under 10k = no forms.  
 

Best

Dicker

[MancunianStacker]

4 hours ago, stackerp5 said:

If you don't mind me asking, where do you buy 22ct jewelry? I imagine it's a relatively low premium compared to lower carats correct?

Thailand 22-23ct and very close to spot price as it is traded back and forth, so it is classed more like bullion jewellery, it won’t be perfect like new necklaces but new can be bought at a slightly higher premium.

Also, as I live in Manchester, there are Asian gold shops that also sell 2nd hand wedding gift style gold that has been traded in etc. A few shops on Cheetham Hill have stock if you are in the North. 🤷‍♂️ But anywhere with a bug Asian community will have a jeweller with low premiums on high credit gold jewellery. 

[MancunianStacker]

24 minutes ago, dicker said:

All I can tell you is that under 10k = no forms.  
 

Best

Dicker

Indeed!

Also I wondered if the £100 = 1oz of gold Britannia gold could be used as part of this £10,000?

You can take notes up to £10,000 so maybe 10 x £100 gold coins just equates to £1,000 🤔??

I wouldn’t want to test this theory out. That’s why I also like bullion sovereigns. Just throw them in the coin wallet with the rest of the foreign currency. They are small enough.

Also, how about wearing the gold brits around your neck within a gold gold holder on a chain 🤔 You might look like Mr T but in the end it is jewellery. 😂 

[Chorlton]

6 hours ago, Foster88 said:

I can’t help nor can I say what forms you might need to fill out.

The best gold you can move between countries, in my opinion is gold you can wear.

I’m sure another forum memeber can advise you further but this is the reason why I buy 22ct jewellery.

No, I’m not Mr T. 😬

I am not sure the MR T approach would get through airport security, especially when you called customs agents fools and that if they didn't let you through you would introduce them to your friend pain 😀

[Paul]

Just take under £10k of base metal value, ie take five now and five Oz next time also you'll be putting him in the same predicament if/when he returns to the UK in future.

Easier to justify if you have original title to them with invoices & statements.  His only explanation will be "I was gifted them". Just keep them in safe deposit box on his behalf would be my advice

 

 

 

 

[Midasfrog]

If its a gift sell them here before you travel and transfer the money to his bank account all sorted with no paperwork 👍

[stackerp5]

2 hours ago, Midasfrog said:

If its a gift sell them here before you travel and transfer the money to his bank account all sorted with no paperwork 👍

This is an idea. If OP knows crypto (LiteCoin recommended), he can sell for crypto in the forum (there's a user in the forum who'd probably buy it) and send crypto to his son, so the son can buy the same/similar gold on the European Mint website. All off the books. Gold for crypto and crypto for gold. Might not get 1:1 out as went in but definitely 0 tax/border/paperwork hassle.

[noddycoder]

 

Thanks to everyone for your replies, you guys have combined decades of experience dealing with PMs, so it says something when there's no clear answer to the question.

 

9 hours ago, Foster88 said:

I can’t help nor can I say what forms you might need to fill out.

The best gold you can move between countries, in my opinion is gold you can wear.

I’m sure another forum memeber can advise you further but this is the reason why I buy 22ct jewellery.

No, I’m not Mr T. 😬

I can't find a link to the article but I read a while back of Italian Customs seizing an "excessive amount" of jewellery a woman was wearing through customs.

8 hours ago, stackerp5 said:

If you don't mind me asking, where do you buy 22ct jewelry? I imagine it's a relatively low premium compared to lower carats correct?

Indian jewellers typically manufacture and market 22-24ct gold jewellery. In the UK try London (Southall - west, Green Street - east), Birmingham or Leicester. Outside of the UK: Dubai, Mumbai or HK.

3 hours ago, dicker said:

All I can tell you is that under 10k = no forms.  
 

Best

Dicker

True, but be aware that Customs can seize amounts lower than 10K if they believe it's proceeds from criminal activity or will be used to fund criminal activity. You need a good explanation for any amount of cash if asked.

3 hours ago, MancunianStacker said:

Indeed!

Also I wondered if the £100 = 1oz of gold Britannia gold could be used as part of this £10,000?

You can take notes up to £10,000 so maybe 10 x £100 gold coins just equates to £1,000 🤔??

I wouldn’t want to test this theory out. That’s why I also like bullion sovereigns. Just throw them in the coin wallet with the rest of the foreign currency. They are small enough.

Also, how about wearing the gold brits around your neck within a gold gold holder on a chain 🤔 You might look like Mr T but in the end it is jewellery. 😂 

The 'face value' vs 'market value' trick has been tried in the past, Customs are aware, I wouldn't risk it. Besides, even if I declared the coins at face value, the total value of them would still be multiples of £10K 

Thanks again for all the replies.

[Tn21]

I would agree with Paul. Take half and say absolutely nothing. 

Test the waters then do another trip 

[CollectorNo1]

I previously worked for a big airline at Heathrow. I've seen some things taken abroad you wouldn't believe. Regarding Gold....if its a gift you have to have the correct paperwork to state that..travelling to the USA they are tough and require full transparency on anything over the value of $10,000 in certain European countries they are more lenient.  I would say check with customs here and at your destination..complete all necessary paperwork..also check with your airline if you can take your PM's on board and what security they can offer. Alot of international traders fly back and forth buying and selling precious metals, as long as you have checked the requirements here and abroad..have all the required documents you shouldn't have a problem....But as always there are exceptions to the rules..

Regards

[Stacktastic]

 

4 hours ago, MancunianStacker said:

That’s why I also like bullion sovereigns. Just throw them in the coin wallet with the rest of the foreign currency. They are small enough.

This is one of the main reasons I collect them - i think you would have a good chance of getting through every time. 
They would be scratched to buggery though. Plus its looking ever closer to a cashless society. 

3 hours ago, Chorlton said:

I am not sure the MR T approach would get through airport security

Your forgetting he would never be in an airport with the intention of flying as he 'aint getting on no damn plane fool' 
 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Stacktastic

[MancunianStacker]

Pop old scratched bullion sovereigns in your kids bag with plastic play money and a few fakes. If customs enquire give them one of the fakes 😂 

[RacerCool]

33 minutes ago, MancunianStacker said:

Pop old scratched bullion sovereigns in your kids bag with plastic play money and a few fakes. If customs enquire give them one of the fakes 😂 

Just be sure you can readily tell the difference between the real and fake. 😬

[Foster88]

12 hours ago, stackerp5 said:

If you don't mind me asking, where do you buy 22ct jewelry? I imagine it's a relatively low premium compared to lower carats correct?

It’s a secret.... 🤫

I’m just kidding. I’ve mostly bought at auction, not eBay, auction houses.

You can buy close to spot and very rarely under spot. Although one 22ct ring I bought a few months ago was about 4% under spot at the time.

Usually it’s around 2-3% over spot.

Some go for way over and you’ve got to factor in the auction house fees. It can sometimes mean live bidding but for me that’s part of the fun.

I imagine that most of the jewellery is from deceased estates, the family want the funds, the auction house wants the commission so they start low and see where they go.

Sad I know, but there are some bargains.

[Stacktastic]

Stupid question but cant you send bullion as a gift via courier? 
Or as suggested list it as the amount on the coins. 

I bought a camera from germany and have not been charged last week - so hopefully thats the same case?

Edited August 28, 2021 by Stacktastic

[CollectorNo1]

1 hour ago, Stacktastic said:

Stupid question but cant you send bullion as a gift via courier? 
Or as suggested list it as the amount on the coins. 

I bought a camera from germany and have not been charged last week - so hopefully thats the same case?

Would you feel happy handing over £10k with of gold to a courier? Don't think I would...wouldn't be able to sleep..that's what puts me off grading my bullion.

[Coverte]

I'm a little surprised OP has no similar concerns about Customs on arrival in the destination country now UK is non EU; I assume customs are very lax or something ...... 

[Stacktastic]

Looking at how things are going - I dont have to worry about this (I am a non-vaxed).
I like the UK & have travelled the world already & bullying me into anything wont work - ever.
Ask me nicely and give me a choice & I may think about it LOL. 
I shall enjoy my serfdom in as much style as my social status allows LOL. 

If car travel is an option thats probably the best thing, especially with silver. 
I have a bus that can take from a European country to the UK - been using the same guy for 15 years.
Not bought any silver yet - waiting for it to get back to £15 an ounce. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Stacktastic

[noddycoder]

27 minutes ago, Coverte said:

I'm a little surprised OP has no similar concerns about Customs on arrival in the destination country now UK is non EU; I assume customs are very lax or something ...... 

I take you're point, however EU regulations on cash controls were much easier to find and simpler to understand than the UK equivalents:

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/customs-controls/eu-cash-controls_en

 

 

 

 

 

[Coverte]

3 minutes ago, noddycoder said:

I take you're point, however EU regulations on cash controls were much easier to find and simpler to understand than the UK equivalents:

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/customs-controls/eu-cash-controls_en

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, yes, much clearer - I still deeply dislike the way the world Governments have sleepwalked us from individual people into numbers/statistics to be monitered with data stored on our every move.

Hopefully you're gifting these to avoid future IHT; that (abhorrant IHT) is now one of my driving forces in stacking for my children and grandchildren 

[noddycoder]

10 minutes ago, Coverte said:

Thank you, yes, much clearer - I still deeply dislike the way the world Governments have sleepwalked us from individual people into numbers/statistics to be monitered with data stored on our every move.

Hopefully you're gifting these to avoid future IHT; that (abhorrant IHT) is now one of my driving forces in stacking for my children and grandchildren 

There's currently no IHT in the destination country, although that could change PDQ when the gold price goes to where I think it's going. I'm gifting these now because IMO international travel for the plebs is only going to become more restricted, as pandemic controls morph into climate emergency controls.

Also, I'm sure you're aware of the 7 year rule that any gifts to children are IHT-free if the donor lives 7 years after gifting.

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by noddycoder
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