'Photo Only Topics' Discussion Thread

[Silverlocks]

1 hour ago, modofantasma said:

Majority of the gold stack. My other deposit box doesn't have quite as much although it's catching  

Mostly Royal Mint, I see - presumably the majority of the ones in tubes are sovs.  I feel owning enough gold to have to worry about capital gains tax would be a good problem to have.

[Zeuk]

1 hour ago, modofantasma said:

Majority of the gold stack. My other deposit box doesn't have quite as much although it's catching  

Thats a thing of beauty

[Fishface220]

On 22/10/2022 at 18:33, modofantasma said:

Majority of the gold stack. My other deposit box doesn't have quite as much although it's catching  

Beautiful but I don’t think my ocd could cope with the krugerrand and the mix match of capsules in that tube!! 

[Silverlocks]

5 hours ago, spookyandroid said:

Some very impressive stacks on here.

Here's my collection, started this year after cycling out of crypto. Got a 5Kg bar currently on order and then I'm done.

Here's my two bob worth* from observations of the secondary market here and other online spaces.  There's quite a lot of money in that and it might be worth looking up @Clarkatroid's saga to get a sense of what it might be like to liquidate that lot - especially the big silver bars.  You will take a bath on those if you have to flog them back to a dealer.   

Also the big gold - not many folks have the dosh for large gold bars.  It might be worth your while to look into diversifying some of those large bars into 1oz brits or maybe even tubes of sovs**.  These will be much more liquid on the secondary market and the spreads between dealer prices and secondary market value might actually be better than you would get selling the bigger bars back to a dealer.  Plus, Royal Mint coins such as Brits or Sovs avoid exposure to capital gains tax and it looks like you might have enough that you actually have to think about that (assuming that you're domiciled here in Blighty).

* - Note that I am not a financial advisor, nor do I play one on TV.  This is just an opinion.

** - Because of the large numbers produced, sovs have smaller spreads than most fractional gold, and are very, very liquid on the secondary market.  Spreads from dealer buy to secondary market sell are quite small and the liquidity makes them well worth considering.  I've seen folks rock up here with 50 or more sovs and flog them all in a few days.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Silverlocks

[spookyandroid]

13 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

Here's my two bob worth from observations of the secondary market here and other online spaces.  There's quite a lot of money in that and it might be worth looking up @Clarkatroid's saga to get a sense of what it might be like to liquidate that lot - especially the big silver bars.  You will take a bath on those if you have to flog them back to a dealer.   

Also the big gold - not many folks have the dosh for large gold bars.  It might be worth your while to look into diversifying some of those large bars into 1oz brits or maybe even tubes of sovs*.  These will be much more liquid on the secondary market and the spreads between dealer prices and secondary market value might actually be better than you would get selling the bigger bars back to a dealer.  Plus, Royal Mint coins such as Brits or Sovs avoid exposure to capital gains tax and it looks like you might have enough that you actually have to think about that (assuming that you're domiciled here in Blighty).

* - Because of the large numbers produced, sovs have smaller spreads than most fractional gold, and are very, very liquid on the secondary market.  Spreads from dealer buy to secondary market sell are quite small and the liquidity makes them well worth considering.  I've seen folks rock up here with 50 or more sovs and flog them all in a few days.

 

Appreciate the advice. Will look into that!

[James32]

2 minutes ago, spookyandroid said:

Appreciate the advice. Will look into that!

Your money and your perogative sir, stay clear of the 5kg bar and if you really must,grab a 100ozer.

[dikefalos]

5 hours ago, spookyandroid said:

.... currently on order and then I'm done.

 

That's what we all say when the wifey receives the parcel.

[Silverlocks]

49 minutes ago, spookyandroid said:

Appreciate the advice. Will look into that!

In my opinion*, much above 1oz, gold starts running into liquidity problems if you try to sell it on the secondary market, which means you are more likely to have to resort to selling larger (say 100g or more) bars back to a dealer.  Whereas you could sell Brits onto the secondary market at (say) spot+3% or so you would likely get something more like spot -2.5% for the larger gold bars sold back to a dealer.**  Chances are you would have trouble shifting larger gold bars in quantity on the secondary market, meaning you would likely have to go down the dealer route.  Brits or Sovs, on the other hand, will sell pretty much anywhere, anytime.

What that means is that if you're prepared to sell on the secondary market (treat Ebay with caution but we don't bite here) then 1oz and fractional gold could be shifted in quantities up to 10oz or so fairly readily, and possibly more.***  1kg silver bars will sell at not too far below dealer price and are fairly liquid.  Not sure about 100oz bars; they don't come up here all that often - I can't remember one, although others might.

* Note that I am not a financial adviser, nor do I play one on TV.

** iirc that's what @Clarkatroid was offered for his 100g bars. 

*** The largest sale I've seen here was 93 sovereigns and I've seen folks selling several dozen on quite a few occasions.  Ebay has more capacity but you're into shark infested waters and significant risk from buy-side scammers.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Silverlocks

[spookyandroid]

Funny really, never give much thought to selling, just holding. Exiting requires some changes in strategy it seems

 

[James32]

Just now, spookyandroid said:

Funny really, never give much thought to selling, just holding. Exiting requires some changes in strategy it seems

 

Most important part of stacking is exit strategy. You may think it's buy price, which is very important, but hold long enough and that takes care of itself. 

Let's use the 5kg bar as an example. Who's buying it when the time comes to sell? Likely only a dealer for spot or slightly less. Whereas the same quantity in 1kg bars will net you spot plus 20% minimum. 

Carded bars above 1oz are another item that will struggle on here, fear of counterfeit sealed items is very real and very off-putting for most buyers, so again that will likely a spot price sale to a dealer. 

Can I ask what you're paying for the 5kg bar?

[Silverlocks]

1 hour ago, spookyandroid said:

Funny really, never give much thought to selling, just holding. Exiting requires some changes in strategy it seems

 

I suggest you hang around here and just keep an eye on the buy/sell forums for a while.  Buy some sovereigns while you're at it.  Here in blighty you pretty much can't go wrong with sovs as long as you don't overpay.

From my observations over a few months here, these are things that seem to come up in quantity and do well on the secondary market:

• Tubes of Britannias (or other 1oz coins): As individuals with no VAT obligations, folks will sometimes buy monster boxes and flog tubes off for a little over what they paid.  This tends to be good value, and people will often take advantage of a dip in the spot price for silver to do this.  Expect to save something like a couple of quid per ounce over dealer prices.  Brits are also exempt from capital gains tax, although you get a hail mary of £12,000 or so before CGT kicks in.  There's also a healthy trade in people flogging tubes to raise a few bob for this and that.
• Individual 1oz coins:  People often come onto the market here selling a batch of coins.  It can be worth picking up 5 or 10 coins at the right price.
• 10oz, 500g and 1kg silver bars: Keep an eye on the premiums and decide what you think is an appropriate premium, but these can be a good buy on the secondary market.
• 10oz coins: Keep an eye on the premium but Royal Mint 10oz coins are exempt from capital gains tax.
• Sovereigns and half sovereigns: Sovs tend to go for about £15 over spot or thereabouts.  Half sovs have a slightly higher premium but can be worth picking up at the right price.  Sovs are very liquid as individual coins are cheap enough that most folks can afford them.  They have a low spread due to the large numbers minted (something like 900 million)* so they are good value as an investment.  
• Fractional gold: 1/4 and 1/10oz coins tend to have fairly high premiums at a dealer, but if you can get them at the right price on the secondary market they are very liquid and therefore easy to sell.
• 1oz gold coins (especially Britannias): These also sell very well and have a relatively low spread even if you buy from a dealer as you can generally get about spot+3% or so on the secondary market from my observations.  Britannias are also legal tender in the UK, so exempt from capital gains tax; they also have good anti-counterfeiting measures, especially recent years.  Thus they tend to be trusted, even though the silver ones have issues with milking.
• Fractional gold bars or gold bars up to 1oz: If you can get them at an appropriate premium, these are quite liquid.  As @James32 says, folks are - with good cause - paranoid about fakes.  It's not hard to find listings for fake gold bars on shoppee, aliexpress or tokopedia.

A lot of folks like graded coins and proof coins, but these are getting you into numismatics, which is a whole can of worms in its own right.  I don't feel that I understand enough to get involved with proof coins at the moment, and I suggest you steer clear of them until you know what you're doing.  They can be quite expensive with a massive premium over spot for the metal, and they may or may not hold their numismatic value.  

* By my back-of-a-fag-packet calculation, more tonnage of gold has been minted in sovereigns than either Krugerrands or American Gold Eagles - by a factor of about 10.

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Silverlocks

[spookyandroid]

13 hours ago, James32 said:

Most important part of stacking is exit strategy. You may think it's buy price, which is very important, but hold long enough and that takes care of itself. 

Let's use the 5kg bar as an example. Who's buying it when the time comes to sell? Likely only a dealer for spot or slightly less. Whereas the same quantity in 1kg bars will net you spot plus 20% minimum. 

Carded bars above 1oz are another item that will struggle on here, fear of counterfeit sealed items is very real and very off-putting for most buyers, so again that will likely a spot price sale to a dealer. 

Can I ask what you're paying for the 5kg bar?

Certainly is. I guess my longer term thinking is that if we go back to the stone ages with this financial reset or whatever it is, that there will be no issues in selling due to the pure demand on silver. Perhaps even direct exchange i.e. for land, could even be possible. That said, in the event we transition into a new system without a "Mad Max" style scenario, lol, a better exit strategy would be very useful. 

When something is extremely scarce selling becomes less of a problem, but yes, as it currently stands, problematic.

And nooooooo - you never ask a lady her age and you never ask a bloke what he overpaid for silver!

[spookyandroid]

12 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

I suggest you hang around here and just keep an eye on the buy/sell forums for a while.  Buy some sovereigns while you're at it.  Here in blighty you pretty much can't go wrong with sovs as long as you don't overpay.

From my observations over a few months here, these are things that seem to come up in quantity and do well on the secondary market:

• Tubes of Britannias (or other 1oz coins): As individuals with no VAT obligations, folks will sometimes buy monster boxes and flog tubes off for a little over what they paid.  This tends to be good value, and people will often take advantage of a dip in the spot price for silver to do this.  Expect to save something like a couple of quid per ounce over dealer prices.  Brits are also exempt from capital gains tax, although you get a hail mary of £12,000 or so before CGT kicks in.  There's also a healthy trade in people flogging tubes to raise a few bob for this and that.
• Individual 1oz coins:  People often come onto the market here selling a batch of coins.  It can be worth picking up 5 or 10 coins at the right price.
• 10oz, 500g and 1kg silver bars: Keep an eye on the premiums and decide what you think is an appropriate premium, but these can be a good buy on the secondary market.
• 10oz coins: Keep an eye on the premium but Royal Mint 10oz coins are exempt from capital gains tax.
• Sovereigns and half sovereigns: Sovs tend to go for about £15 over spot or thereabouts.  Half sovs have a slightly higher premium but can be worth picking up at the right price.  Sovs are very liquid as individual coins are cheap enough that most folks can afford them.  They have a low spread due to the large numbers minted (something like 900 million)* so they are good value as an investment.  
• Fractional gold: 1/4 and 1/10oz coins tend to have fairly high premiums at a dealer, but if you can get them at the right price on the secondary market they are very liquid and therefore easy to sell.
• 1oz gold coins (especially Britannias): These also sell very well and have a relatively low spread even if you buy from a dealer as you can generally get about spot+3% or so on the secondary market from my observations.  Britannias are also legal tender in the UK, so exempt from capital gains tax; they also have good anti-counterfeiting measures, especially recent years.  Thus they tend to be trusted, even though the silver ones have issues with milking.
• Fractional gold bars or gold bars up to 1oz: If you can get them at an appropriate premium, these are quite liquid.  As @James32 says, folks are - with good cause - paranoid about fakes.  It's not hard to find listings for fake gold bars on shoppee, aliexpress or tokopedia.

A lot of folks like graded coins and proof coins, but these are getting you into numismatics, which is a whole can of worms in its own right.  I don't feel that I understand enough to get involved with proof coins at the moment, and I suggest you steer clear of them until you know what you're doing.  They can be quite expensive with a massive premium over spot for the metal, and they may or may not hold their numismatic value.  

* By my back-of-a-fag-packet calculation, more tonnage of gold has been minted in sovereigns than either Krugerrands or American Gold Eagles - by a factor of about 10.

 

Some more great advice - thank you. If anyone on here (a well established member ideally) would be interested in swapping one of my bars for some coins, equivelant weight, then let me know. I imagine diversification both ways would be beneficial.

[James32]

Just now, spookyandroid said:

ask a bloke what he overpaid for silver!

 😆 🤣 so it's already paid for? 

Ignore everything I said,it's a bargain and enjoy in good health. 

[spookyandroid]

1 minute ago, James32 said:

 😆 🤣 so it's already paid for? 

Ignore everything I said,it's a bargain and enjoy in good health. 

It's on order from Umicore. I just wanted a 5KG. Perhaps an underlying thing of always wanting to hold something large that I own in my hand but never being able to. lol

[Silverlocks]

Just now, spookyandroid said:

Some more great advice - thank you. If anyone on here (a well established member ideally) would be interested in swapping one of my bars for some coins, equivelant weight, then let me know. I imagine diversification both ways would be beneficial.

Put up a listing.  Coins have a higher premium than 1kg bars so you won't get weight for weight, but you could probably put up an offer for a swap of a 1kg bar for a tube of Brits and a bit of change (I think it's worth slightly more than a single tube).  Somebody might be interested.

Just now, spookyandroid said:

It's on order from Umicore. I just wanted a 5KG. Perhaps an underlying thing of always wanting to hold something large that I own in my hand but never being able to. lol

You and @HerefordBullyun are birds of a feather.

[James32]

Just now, spookyandroid said:

It's on order from Umicore. I just wanted a 5KG. Perhaps an underlying thing of always wanting to hold something large that I own in my hand but never being able to. lol

Yeah I suppose there's is certainly a hundred worse ways to spend/squander money. 

 

 

[EdwardTeach]

14 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

• 10oz coins: Keep an eye on the premium but Royal Mint 10oz coins are exempt from capital gains tax.

I never knew that!

[Silverlocks]

29 minutes ago, EdwardTeach said:

I never knew that!

I'd like to see the look on the cashier's face if you went into Tesco and tried to buy a meal deal with it, but from memory they're legal tender with a face value of 10 quid or some such.  Ergo, no CGT.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Silverlocks

[HerefordBullyun]

5 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

 

You and @HerefordBullyun are birds of a feather.

Have you been watching me in the shower?

[Silverlocks]

7 minutes ago, HerefordBullyun said:

Have you been watching me in the shower?

No, I still have PTSD after the last time.

[Darr3nG]

5 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

PTSD

Strange brand of shower gel?

[Silverlocks]

@DrDave - I wonder if you might be able to offer some cogent advice:

I got a little macro lens for my phone (Samsung Note 10) - an Apexel HB100mm, which is an off-brand clip-on smartphone lens bought off Amazon.  I'm trying to shoot the coin at a slight angle (Exhibit A below) so I can get a reflection of a flat LED light panel.  If I shoot the coin from directly above (Exhibit B ) I get a dark reflection of the lens showing in the coin (the lens focuses at about 4-5cm away from the coin).

The trouble with this lens is it has a short focal depth - even at a shallow angle the edges of the coin are slightly out of focus.  For something one can use on a smart phone, what sort of lens might (for example) allow the camera to be placed further away from the coin or how might I get better focal depth.

Exhibit A: not enough depth of focus.

Exhibit B: Reflection of lens in the coin.

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Silverlocks

[DrDave]

18 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

@DrDave - I wonder if you might be able to offer some cogent advice:

I got a little macro lens for my phone (Samsung Note 10) - an Apexel HB100mm, which is an off-brand clip-on smartphone lens bought off Amazon.  I'm trying to shoot the coin at a slight angle (Exhibit A below) so I can get a reflection of a flat LED light panel.  If I shoot the coin from directly above (Exhibit B ) I get a dark reflection of the lens showing in the coin (the lens focuses at about 4-5cm away from the coin).

The trouble with this lens is it has a short focal depth - even at a shallow angle the edges of the coin are slightly out of focus.  For something one can use on a smart phone, what sort of lens might (for example) allow the camera to be placed further away from the coin or how might I get better focal depth.

Exhibit A: not enough depth of focus.

Exhibit B: Reflection of lens in the coin.

 

So here are my thoughts.....

Regarding shallow depth of field - that would be something that is set within the phone. If you use 'pro' mode you can change some settings. A small aperture (the larger f number ie f11 for instance) would give a greater DOF, but i'm not sure if pro mode allows you to change the aperture. You can change shutter speed, so make the speed slower (a longer exposure). This would then in theory give a smaller aperture and a greater DOF. But i think that mobiles are probably a fixed aperture, but worth a try.

I think that the softening around the edges in pic A is probably where the sharpness of the lens fall away at the edges, so unfortunately i don't think that theres much to do with that.

However, pic B is pretty sharp all over, but its the reflection thats the issue. Is your phone black by any chance? Could you wrap it in foil when you take the shot from directly above? That would minimise the reflection. Or better still, shoot through tracing paper with a small hole for the lens and have a light source directly above too.

These problems aren't just on mobiles either. On DSLR's when shooting macro, depth of field is tiny and shooting from a slight angle as you've done in pic A creates the same issue, but theres more options and software available to work around it. 

Hope thats of some help?

[Silverlocks]

So, I tried putting some foil over the camera and perched the coin on top of a little coinsafe tube with the flat LED lights shining up to reflect off the foil.  Curves twiddled a bit in Photoshop to bring down the glare but it's maybe a bit too flat this time..  The reflection is diminished a bit although not eliminated entirely.