The future of silver, VAT and import charges into the UK now a Deal has been done!?

[Rll1288]

On the German example you sent I can't see a VAT amount it has EUR 25.00 shipping (versand) and I am assuming if you buy in Germany their VAT would be added and that if you bought it from UK on the VAT at 20% would be added... Not charged twice

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Rll1288

[RoughDog]

3 minutes ago, silversky said:

Write to the seller and ask them to remove the German vat.  They used to be able to send you an invoice to accept.  If they can send one that is minus the German VAT and then plus the UK VAT, that might be an option.  Not sure if the ebay site is geared up to do that sort of thing yet but I imagine that it is in ebay's interest to sort it out to keep business flowing.

I don't want the item.  I was just wondering how this new world affect me.  Badly by the looks of it.

Does the same happen in reverse.

If I purchase an item from a UK store for £120.    (£100 with £20 VAT)

I then decide I don't want it and list it on eBay for £120 as brand new.  A German buyer wants to purchase.  Does he have to pay their 19% VAT to purchase it.

Making the price for him £142.80

Wow.  Sales killer.

[Rll1288]

2 minutes ago, RoughDog said:

I don't want the item.  I was just wondering how this new world affect me.  Badly by the looks of it.

Does the same happen in reverse.

If I purchase an item from a UK store for £120.    (£100 with £20 VAT)

I then decide I don't want it and list it on eBay for £120 as brand new.  A German buyer wants to purchase.  Does he have to pay their 19% VAT to purchase it.

Making the price for him £142.80

Wow.  Sales killer.

Ebay.. and this is my interpretation is that it will add VAT onto of the sale price and yes potentially a German buyer would pay £120 + their VAT ... My view on this is that the total price is what you should look at if now buying from Europe... The same as buying from US... except if you buy from someone like US Mint they will sell yo you plus their costs (shipping etc.) then when it hits the UK.. customs add 20% plus you also pay delivery charges on it buy the postage firm i.e. UPS, DHL Royal mail etc.... and not necessarily a sales killer.. yet but time will tell. effectively though and this is a question that has/is being discussed on the forum is.. if you re-sale the item it is "pre=owned" and therefore does VAT on the sale apply 🙂

[BackyardBullion]

Its important to remember that the VAT applied on UK ebay listings for european customers is an import VAT rather than true VAT. It is due when the goods enter the EU (or at the point of sale for online marketplaces). 

This import tax is applied regardless of an items status as 2nd hand or not, it is just a taxation method to protect and promote European businesses otherwise they would not be able to compete with other countries. 

So, it basically makes trade a lot harder to justify both for customers buying from the EU to the UK and UK to the EU. 

[RoughDog]

1 minute ago, Rll1288 said:

Ebay.. and this is my interpretation is that it will add VAT onto of the sale price and yes potentially a German buyer would pay £120 + their VAT ... My view on this is that the total price is what you should look at if now buying from Europe... The same as buying from US... except if you buy from someone like US Mint they will sell yo you plus their costs (shipping etc.) then when it hits the UK.. customs add 20% plus you also pay delivery charges on it buy the postage firm i.e. UPS, DHL Royal mail etc.... and not necessarily a sales killer.. yet but time will tell. effectively though and this is a question that has/is being discussed on the forum is.. if you re-sale the item it is "pre=owned" and therefore does VAT on the sale apply 🙂

It's not pre-owned when it is still sealed / unopened.  It's new but the VAT has already been paid.

Lets say someone was to purchased stuff in bulk (quantities of a 1000s) and sell them individually on an eBay store.   The chances of selling them for +20% or +19% more than pre 31st Dec are ambitious.

Might be OK for VAT registered companies, but for an individual it's 20% more expensive.  +20% = sales killer. 

How do I know that you ask.  I ain't willing to paying the extra 20% so I would imagine plenty of other people wouldn't too.

[Rll1288]

1 minute ago, BackyardBullion said:

Its important to remember that the VAT applied on UK ebay listings for european customers is an import VAT rather than true VAT. It is due when the goods enter the EU (or at the point of sale for online marketplaces). 

This import tax is applied regardless of an items status as 2nd hand or not, it is just a taxation method to protect and promote European businesses otherwise they would not be able to compete with other countries. 

So, it basically makes trade a lot harder to justify both for customers buying from the EU to the UK and UK to the EU. 

I knew you had the right insights 😉

[Rll1288]

1 minute ago, RoughDog said:

It's not pre-owned when it is still sealed / unopened.  It's new but the VAT has already been paid.

Lets say someone was to purchased stuff in bulk (quantities of a 1000s) and sell them individually on an eBay store.   The chances of selling them for +20% or +19% more than pre 31st Dec are ambitious.

Might be OK for VAT registered companies, but for an individual it's 20% more expensive.  +20% = sales killer. 

How do I know that you ask.  I ain't willing to paying the extra 20% so I would imagine plenty of other people wouldn't too.

In essence... yes it will be harder... and I am sure other industrial areas and bigger organisations are looking into the issue and maybe lobbying the UK government.... but HMRC is HMRC and whatever happens they won;t let go of their own revenue streams... even if it kills off UK industries and business.... believe me I know

[BackyardBullion]

Ultimately it comes down to whether someone is VAT registered as to how much VAT the end user has to pay. 

Lets take my business as an example. 

I buy silver to melt. I am not VAT registered so I pay the seller price + 20% VAT.

I build that into my sales price for my customers and charge a flat fee, no tax. 

However, a EU customer importing my goods will have to pay import VAT on the purchase meaning that the end customer has essentially been double VAT'ed. 

Once by me adding in the tax to my unit price and second on import. 

If I WAS VAT registered then I would buy my raw material and claim the VAT back.

My sales price would be 20% lower than the previous example for the EU customer (as I would zero rate the sale). Then they get VAT upon import. 

So this method saves the EU customer the tax issues - but it means that I have to register for VAT and deal with all the burdens around that and the additional admin. 

 

[Rll1288]

3 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Ultimately it comes down to whether someone is VAT registered as to how much VAT the end user has to pay. 

Lets take my business as an example. 

I buy silver to melt. I am not VAT registered so I pay the seller price + 20% VAT.

I build that into my sales price for my customers and charge a flat fee, no tax. 

However, a EU customer importing my goods will have to pay import VAT on the purchase meaning that the end customer has essentially been double VAT'ed. 

Once by me adding in the tax to my unit price and second on import. 

If I WAS VAT registered then I would buy my raw material and claim the VAT back.

My sales price would be 20% lower than the previous example for the EU customer (as I would zero rate the sale). Then they get VAT upon import. 

So this method saves the EU customer the tax issues - but it means that I have to register for VAT and deal with all the burdens around that and the additional admin. 

 

Been there...done that with VAT registration.... 🙂

[Martlet]

2 hours ago, RoughDog said:

So German eBay has always worked different from UK eBay?

Because prior to this brexit, VAT was included in the eBay price.  Never known eBay to show prices excluding VAT.

Seems like a double VAT rip-off to me.

No more Euro purchases from eBay from me.

Yes, would seem suppliers dont want to adjust prices to ex-VAT for UK market.  It's early days, we'll see if this is losing them substantial sales and they adjust or they just write it off.  

[louisfinlay]

I live in Northen Ireland and can still get vat free silver from Europe. I have unfettered access to G.B posting.  I do not sell on here but if I wanted to I could It would not be smuggling! Supermarket shelves are empty here in m&s because of Brexit! Absolute joke.        

[scubajunky]

Really?  they just don't add it on when you take delivery ? 

[Erolroller]

20 hours ago, louisfinlay said:

I live in Northen Ireland and can still get vat free silver from Europe. I have unfettered access to G.B posting.  I do not sell on here but if I wanted to I could It would not be smuggling! Supermarket shelves are empty here in m&s because of Brexit! Absolute joke.        

So how do you get it into Norn Iron and not pay vat? 

[Timbo45]

1 hour ago, Erolroller said:

So how do you get it into Norn Iron and not pay vat? 

Would a parcel forwarding company work for this?

Ship the purchase to a parcel forwarding Co in NI with an NI address (who accept delivery on your behalf) and then they forward the parcel to you on the mainland?

The cost of using such a service might be prohibitive and I'm not immediately aware of any based in NI. Might need a Google.

[Danny-boy]

35 minutes ago, Timbo45 said:

Would a parcel forwarding company work for this?

Ship the purchase to a parcel forwarding Co in NI with an NI address (who accept delivery on your behalf) and then they forward the parcel to you on the mainland?

The cost of using such a service might be prohibitive and I'm not immediately aware of any based in NI. Might need a Google.

I understand that it needs to be personally accompanied. 

[hammerthief]

On 03/01/2021 at 20:40, Fadeingstar said:

Well I have a shipment of silver coming in from Europe hopefully being dispatched tomorrow so we will see what happens with it all!

Just curious to hear how it went? Scrolled through but can't see the answer.

[Fadeingstar]

Well it is turned into a big of a saga to be honest. I think it has been lost in the post. Tracking info still says that it is overseas in German so watch this space. Going to be requesting a refund from the seller.

[hammerthief]

18 minutes ago, Fadeingstar said:

Well it is turned into a big of a saga to be honest. I think it has been lost in the post. Tracking info still says that it is overseas in German so watch this space. Going to be requesting a refund from the seller.

I won't hold my breath then.  Wishing you the best of luck....probably turn up next month.

Has anyone else managed to import any coins since Jan 1st and how did it go?

[Fadeingstar]

I know some people have imported stuff. Just pay the taxes when it arrives and you are good to go. Just make sure you factor that into when you make the purchase.

[louisfinlay]

On 18/01/2021 at 17:46, Erolroller said:

So how do you get it into Norn Iron and not pay vat? 

I have it delivered to the Republic and drive over and lift it. 

[Erolroller]

44 minutes ago, louisfinlay said:

I have it delivered to the Republic and drive over and lift it. 

That's a good arrangement. 

I live close to the border, not far from Newry. 

Do you have a friend who you can ship to in ROI? 

[louisfinlay]

58 minutes ago, Erolroller said:

That's a good arrangement. 

I live close to the border, not far from Newry. 

Do you have a friend who you can ship to in ROI? 

Yes. I think if the postal store have a branch near you it could be delivered there. They will even bring it over the border and deliver it to your home after. I think its €12 to use their address in the south. You can collect it or have it delivered to you for extra.

[BackyardBullion]

Another example of "Free trade" just not being free in any way shape or form

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

 

[VelociteeSteel]

22 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Another example of "Free trade" just not being free in any way shape or form

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

 

Poorly written news story to grab headlines, (oh it's the BBC, explains it!) which deliberately jumbled up EU and Worldwide regulations and only explained properly in the second part of the report what the real cause was. So she ordered "bargain" VAT free clothes from the EU and was upset she had to pay VAT to import, the only real additional cost is admin fee for paperwork and a few percentage points either way for VAT.

The problem here isn't "Free trade" it's "frictionless trade" plus carriers profiteering from the admin charge, this is to be expected as it's early days and would still have happened even if you had 1 year to prepare.

[GoldStatue]

I've just had to pay £8 to the Royal Mail on a parcel from the continent (non-coin related), that's just as much as a scandal as pay day loans in my book!