The future of silver, VAT and import charges into the UK now a Deal has been done!?

[BackyardBullion]

@Martlet is correct.

If you are VAT registered then you can claim back the VAT on all raw materials, equipment etc that you use to make the items you make. You then have to charge VAT to the consumer.

For a business like mine where we are operating underneath the compulsory registration threshold and choose not to VAT register we pay the VAT when we buy the raw material/equipment and then have to make our own decision on pricing at the end of the chain. 

[Connor]

32 minutes ago, Martlet said:

That is not how it works.  The manufacturer can claim back the VAT for goods and services they buy.  Only the end consumer pays the VAT. 

Ah I see. 

[HillWalkerDundee]

Martlet

 

"Only the end consumer pays the VAT. "

Not quite. It is the customer not the consumer (they are different things) that pay VAT. There is a customer at every stage of the journey to the last buyer in the chain. 

VAT = Value Added Tax. At each stage, value is added to the item, may be design, may be manufacture, may be distribution, may be retail. All of these processes are taxed and reclaimed until the last leg.

When you add up all the sales VAT and subtract all the purchase VAT, only the last customer pays the full VAT. Even the last payer of VAT may then be reclaimed from HMRC under certain circumstances e.g. I am a tourist, a farmer (often net reclaimers) or a charity (some types) etc.

 

[ShropshireTom]

On 06/01/2021 at 07:03, ShropshireTom said:

Hello all,

For everyone’s information and hopefully of some use:

I ordered some 2020 1oz Libertads mid December from Germany, they were packaged and sent to DHL the same week (W/c 14th Dec). They were then held up and I had a note from DHL apologising for the delay which meant it didn’t move for the rest of that week. By W/c 21st nothing was moving because of the virus.

Just had an email from Royal Mail today telling me it will likely incur a customs charge because of the value.

I will be trying to reclaim as it was purchased in December and I can prove it. Thought I’d share as a flavour of things to come in the hood somebody finds the info useful.

Follow up to the above - my Libertads arrived from Germany without a customs charge - I presume because of the purchase date. The text from RM was genuine and was followed by the tracking info and delivery date. Won’t make any difference for purchases made in 2021 I suppose, but maybe a ray of hope for those who are awaiting deliver of silver purchased in 2020.

[HillWalkerDundee]

Shropshire

Again, it is down to the date of supply irrespective of when it was ordered or received.  Look at your invoice, it will have a date of supply and this will be 31/12/2020 or before.

[ShropshireTom]

2 hours ago, HillWalkerDundee said:

Shropshire

Again, it is down to the date of supply irrespective of when it was ordered or received.  Look at your invoice, it will have a date of supply and this will be 31/12/2020 or before.

Yes I’m not struggling to understand, what’s your point? HM Customs can be a bit gung ho regardless of purchase date. Was sharing as a case study given the text from RM about paying duty even though it shouldn’t be levied.

[HillWalkerDundee]

The point is that neither the supplier, DHL, RM nor HMRC are above the law. All VAT registered businesses are well aware of the law so the chances of an error being made is minimal. Your supply date will be mid to late December and would never have attracted additional charges. Anyone with a date of supply post BREXIT transition period will incur charges. 

[ShropshireTom]

3 hours ago, HillWalkerDundee said:

The point is that neither the supplier, DHL, RM nor HMRC are above the law. All VAT registered businesses are well aware of the law so the chances of an error being made is minimal. Your supply date will be mid to late December and would never have attracted additional charges. Anyone with a date of supply post BREXIT transition period will incur charges. 

The chances of Royal Mail or HMRC making a mistake are minimal? I want to live on your planet!

I received a text from RM followed by an email saying: “Just to let you know, it’s likely there will be a Customs charge to pay for this item” so was keeping people informed in this relevant thread.

 

[HillWalkerDundee]

And did you get a Customs charge? Or did you get a standard text.

[ShropshireTom]

As per the update, no customs charge. Hence the update that may have been of use to others waiting for silver front he continent from previous-Brexit. But me not getting charged does not mean that others won’t be incorrectly charged and have to reclaim.

[HighlandTiger]

On 08/01/2021 at 12:57, Eric1966 said:

Yeah it’s my fault, would have expected a note on the silver-to-go site but I should have checked myself. Will just write it off as a £100 mistake and go back to buying gold! 
 

@HillWalkerDundee 48.11% of us can still complain! I’m not sure your presumption about people knowing what they were voting for is correct, but I have a feeling that’s your point! 
 

Happy New Year all. 

Why go back to buying gold, You can buy silver coins on this forum for less than the silver to go price, and have them delivered in a day or so.

[Eric1966]

3 hours ago, HighlandTiger said:

Why go back to buying gold, You can buy silver coins on this forum for less than the silver to go price, and have them delivered in a day or so.

Since my last post I’ve been having a look around this forum. Seems like a great resource I wish I’d found sooner!

[Pete]

On 08/01/2021 at 21:05, Cornishfarmer said:

When Americans buy from the royal mint don’t they buy without the U.K. vat.    So when we buy from Europe shouldn’t we be able to buy tax free from Europe then pay vat when imported?

VAT is a tax on most sales applied across the EU.
Exporting goods outside the UK will be VAT free.
In the USA they add a sales tax on purchases but the rate is set by the state and varies according to whatever tax the state wants to set, with some goods free of tax altogether. From memory sales tax is in the 6% or thereabouts and no-where near our 20% rate.
Buying from the EU now should be tax free ( meaning no VAT ) with VAT being charged at the point of import so you cannot avoid paying this tax.
I think ( but do not know for sure ) that goods shipped from the EU below £135 value will not require payment of VAT on importation but businesses must charge the VAT before shipping and that requires the business to register in the UK to enable this. I haven't a clue how this would work buying a few coins from a forum member privately residing in Germany. A non-registered seller cannot charge VAT so even if sent as a gift the package will require a customs declaration - contents & value - and our border force people through the Royal Mail, UPS etc require payment of 20% VAT plus a fee for them processing the charge. 
When we talk about free trade we mean no IMPORT & EXPORT DUTY and no QUOTAS.
This is additional to any VAT and I remember vividly buying high tech goods from the USA some years ago when the import duty was 17% plus VAT.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Pete said:

Exporting goods outside the UK will be VAT free.

Err, as long as I know, most developed countries have some sort of vat, so I don't see how you can back your statement up. I don't want to be confrontational. I just would like an explanation of your claim.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Guest

[Rll1288]

20 hours ago, Pete said:

VAT is a tax on most sales applied across the EU.
Exporting goods outside the UK will be VAT free.
In the USA they add a sales tax on purchases but the rate is set by the state and varies according to whatever tax the state wants to set, with some goods free of tax altogether. From memory sales tax is in the 6% or thereabouts and no-where near our 20% rate.
Buying from the EU now should be tax free ( meaning no VAT ) with VAT being charged at the point of import so you cannot avoid paying this tax.
I think ( but do not know for sure ) that goods shipped from the EU below £135 value will not require payment of VAT on importation but businesses must charge the VAT before shipping and that requires the business to register in the UK to enable this. I haven't a clue how this would work buying a few coins from a forum member privately residing in Germany. A non-registered seller cannot charge VAT so even if sent as a gift the package will require a customs declaration - contents & value - and our border force people through the Royal Mail, UPS etc require payment of 20% VAT plus a fee for them processing the charge. 
When we talk about free trade we mean no IMPORT & EXPORT DUTY and no QUOTAS.
This is additional to any VAT and I remember vividly buying high tech goods from the USA some years ago when the import duty was 17% plus VAT.

Prior to VAT we had sales tax in this country... HMRC will not let a revenue earner go and if they cancel VAT I am sure we will then have a "Sales TAx" that will then be open to cover all things.. including those items that were previously non VAT rated

[Pete]

29 minutes ago, savoyard said:

Err, as long as I know, most developed countries have some sort of vat, so I don't see how you can back your statement up. I don't want to be confrontational. I just would like an explanation of your claim.

When you export goods the recipient country has to deal with any import duties and taxes set by their national governments and not the sender.
To the best of my knowledge there is no VAT added to exports.
When we were in the EU we added VAT because goods moved freely across the EU but not any longer.
 

[bluemoon]

I haven't read all the pages here, sorry. So what's the verdict then, are we stuffed?

[Guest]

20 hours ago, bluemoon said:

I haven't read all the pages here, sorry. So what's the verdict then, are we stuffed?

TL/TR: yes, the party is over.

[RoughDog]

Hello.

Slightly off topic but VAT query.

Just looked at an item on eBay.co.uk from Germany.  The eBay listing is for 119 euro.  The listing says "+ 20 VAT will apply"

I look at the same item on eBay.de and it's 119 euros, does not say + 20 VAT will apply.

If this is new item that contains Germany TAX/VAT.  Would I be paying two lots of VAT????

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by RoughDog

[Rll1288]

Just now, RoughDog said:

Hello.

Slightly off topic but VAT query.

Just looked a item on eBay.co.uk from Germany.  The eBay listing is for 119 euro.  The listing says "+ 20 VAT will apply"

I look at the same item on eBay.de and it's 119 euros, does not say + 20 VAT will apply.

If this is new item that contains Germany TAX/VAT.  Would I be paying two lots of VAT????

 

 

 

 

 

That's because to ship here to the UK VAT at 20% would apply.. Ebay.de don't add it as they assume its being sold in Europe. I am sure if you purchase on the Germany site and pay it would probably add the VAT on then

[RoughDog]

7 minutes ago, Rll1288 said:

That's because to ship here to the UK VAT at 20% would apply.. Ebay.de don't add it as they assume its being sold in Europe. I am sure if you purchase on the Germany site and pay it would probably add the VAT on then

So German eBay has always worked different from UK eBay?

Because prior to this brexit, VAT was included in the eBay price.  Never known eBay to show prices excluding VAT.

Seems like a double VAT rip-off to me.

No more Euro purchases from eBay from me.

Edited January 14, 2021 by RoughDog

[Rll1288]

2 minutes ago, RoughDog said:

So German eBay has always worked different from UK eBay?

Because prior to this brexit, VAT was included in the eBay price.  Never known eBay to show prices excluding VAT.

Seems like a double VAT rip-off to me.

No more Euro purchases from eBay from me.

Welcome to the new world... Since 31st December Ebay show the cost on items being imported from Europe

[RoughDog]

Just now, Rll1288 said:

Welcome to the new world... Since 31st December Ebay show the cost on items being imported from Europe

Since 31st December looks like eBay purchases are 20% more expensive.

 

[Rll1288]

Yeah if buying in Europe... Mr @BackyardBullion has been doing some great videos on YouTube on this subject. As we are still in this uneasy transition I believe some people have been questioning whether VAT should be paid on second hand items, which I suppose on Ebay if they marked as "pre-owned" could see VAT not being applied. Now I am not or know where near a position to give tax advice and am an interested party as things evolve 🙂

[silversky]

2 minutes ago, RoughDog said:

Since 31st December looks like eBay purchases are 20% more expensive.

 

Write to the seller and ask them to remove the German vat.  They used to be able to send you an invoice to accept.  If they can send one that is minus the German VAT and then plus the UK VAT, that might be an option.  Not sure if the ebay site is geared up to do that sort of thing yet but I imagine that it is in ebay's interest to sort it out to keep business flowing.