The future of silver, VAT and import charges into the UK now a Deal has been done!?

[ShropshireTom]

2 hours ago, BackyardBullion said:

Just be sure that email is not a scam, lots of email scams going around - also, why are royal mail emailing you instead of DHL?

Thanks very much and will be vigilant. I think DHL operate a lot of general post in Germany and they partner with RM in the uk, had it a few times before. Appreciate the heads up 👍🏻

[GoldStatue]

I've had to buy a few things from the US on ebay since the new year and on the £100 valued item ebay added on the VAT to my purchase price and the £200 valued item they didn't.

So it looks like ebay has implemented the governments VAT changes to the letter!

[Wampum]

Hi,I have just had an email from CNG, which details how they see  the changes ,however this is more for Numismatic interests

They have also have a few coins that could be classed as bullion, all of which have sent under the 5%.

Dear CNG Customer,

Happy New Year from CNG. We are all hoping 2021 brings us a return to more normal business practices. Unfortunately, 2020 ended with the Brexit agreement between the UK and the European Union. I say “unfortunately” because the consequences of the agreement are still being determined with respect to coin purchases which travel between the UK and EU. For the moment, we assume the following has changed.

Coin purchased from our auctions and online store by EU residents and shipped via our London offices will no longer be possible at the 5% UK import VAT rate. Residents of the EU who are taking shipment directly in their respective EU countries will now be required to pay import VAT on incoming shipments, either from the US or from the UK where applicable. The rate of import VAT will be dependent on the EU country where the coins are being shipped. For the time being, we see several options for our customers in the EU as follows:

1. Ship coins from our US office via courier (either DHL or Fed Ex) to your home address. You would then pay your home country VAT through the customs declaration once the coins arrive.
2. Coins could be held in the US at our Lancaster office for pickup by you or a designated agent. We can also ship to other US addresses as long as you have designated someone to receive the coins for you. There would be no VAT applied for this shipping method.
3. Ship to the London office of CNG where you can pick the coins up. As above, we can also ship to other UK addresses as long as you designate someone to receive the coins. This would result in a 5% import VAT as is required in the UK.
4. Ship lower value coins via the US Postal Service (USPS) directly to you. There is the possibility coins can be held up using this method until customs clears the shipment. The payment of import VAT tax will likely still be required.

We realize this will increase shipping costs for some of you. We will also offer the option to hold shipments to allow coins from several sales to be shipped in a single package. This might be useful for those of you that have lower value purchases so the shipping fees overall can be reduced.

This is an evolving situation and we are looking at various distribution solutions. We obviously hope that coins may get an exemption at some point in the near future. For now we are taking the cautious approach.

If you have already paid for purchases from CNG which have yet to ship, we will honor our pre-Brexit arrangement (charging only the 5.0% UK import VAT). We will either prepay the addressee delivery country import VAT or give your CNG account a credit to cover the applicable VAT. This will only work for payments received by December 31, 2020. Any purchases from CNG 482 and beyond, and any past purchases which are paid after December 31, 2020, which will be paid for post-Brexit, will be subject to the above restrictions unless rules change.

We ask you to please communicate with our London or Lancaster staff members to let us know your wishes.

Thank you for your continued support.

Sincerely,

Mike Gasvoda

Managing Director CNG LLC

Edited January 6, 2021 by Wampum

[Pete]

My other half ordered some kitchen accessories from a company in Sweden around December 14th.
It was shipped UPS but delayed and arrived yesterday without any problems or charges.

As for coins shipped from Germany by DHL - smaller shipments arriving in the UK are usually handled in the UK by Royal Mail.
Definitely fight the charges if you can produce an invoice dated December when EU VAT will have been charged.

 

[silvernewbie]

What is the item value isnt marked?

also why are Silver packages from canada vat free if below a certain weight?

[HillWalkerDundee]

Re: Sweden,

With VAT in any EU country (and UK) the most important bit is the date of supply i.e when the goods were invoiced (see later). It doesn't matter when you ordered the goods or when the goods were received, it is the date of supply.

As for Canada, up until 31st December, the goods would come under the deal struck with the EU. From 1st January, different rules apply, what rules I don't know.

Re: invoice dates. This date may differ from the date of supply. Often it is the same but can be a day or two out.

Edited January 7, 2021 by HillWalkerDundee

[CollectForFun]

1 hour ago, HillWalkerDundee said:

Re: Sweden,

With VAT in any EU country (and UK) the most important bit is the date of supply i.e when the goods were invoiced (see later). It doesn't matter when you ordered the goods or when the goods were received, it is the date of supply.

As for Canada, up until 31st December, the goods would come under the deal struck with the EU. From 1st January, different rules apply, what rules I don't know.

Re: invoice dates. This date may differ from the date of supply. Often it is the same but can be a day or two out.

This is however not entirely accurate. Date of supply for VAT purposes does not equal invoice date. You can find good overview here: https://www.gov.uk/vat-record-keeping/time-of-supply-or-tax-point.

In general, the date of supply (for VAT purposes) is the date the goods are sent, collected or made available. If payment is made before that date, VAT obligation arises on the date the payment is received. So it is definitely useful to check the invoice, but you should look for the date of supply rather than invoice date, which may be different.

It is however another question if UK accepts the fact that VATable event occured before 31 Dec, if e.g the goods were shipped or physically arrived in the UK later. It may not always be possible to avoid double charging of VAT given that UK and EU VAT rules are no longer harmonised as of 1 Jan.

[HillWalkerDundee]

"This is however not entirely accurate. Date of supply for VAT purposes does not equal invoice date."

Is that not what I said? That is why I said "(see later). It doesn't matter when you ordered the goods or when the goods were received, it is the date of supply" and then explained timing differences in my last sentence.

You are absolutely right, the date of supply is what counts.

[CollectForFun]

Ok if we mean the same, I just wanted to make sure this quote from your post above does not mislead others

Quote

... the most important bit is the date of supply i.e when the goods were invoiced ...

 

[happy2gether]

Not related to coins, but generally what happened to customers in the EU for importing goods from the UK and also consequences for UK business  

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/07/customers-europe-hit-by-post-brexit-charges-buying-from-uk

Edited January 8, 2021 by happy2gether

[BackyardBullion]

3 hours ago, happy2gether said:

Not related to coins, but generally what happened to customers in the EU for importing goods from the UK and also consequences for UK business  

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/07/customers-europe-hit-by-post-brexit-charges-buying-from-uk

Yep, to exactly as I thought, the bandying around of the phrase "free trade" is a complete misnomer and has caused so much confusion.

Bet the courier companies are loving it, rolling in the extra cash they are getting for VAT notices.

[Eric1966]

Hello all.

I recently bought a tube of 20 1oz coins from silver-to-go. UPS have informed that import charges will be £100. Silver-to-go have said that if I refuse the package, they would buy the coins back at spot price (costing roughly £100).

 

[HillWalkerDundee]

Judging from the above, together with various links describing similar sort of issues, this is the start of the chickens coming home to roost. People voted to leave the EU, they (presumably) knew what this meant, so there shouldn't be any complaints. There will be many more issues like this for many years to come.

[BackyardBullion]

49 minutes ago, Eric1966 said:

Hello all.

I recently bought a tube of 20 1oz coins from silver-to-go. UPS have informed that import charges will be £100. Silver-to-go have said that if I refuse the package, they would buy the coins back at spot price (costing roughly £100).

 

Were you expecting not to get charges? It's just a fact of life now

[Eric1966]

1 minute ago, BackyardBullion said:

Were you expecting not to get charges? It's just a fact of life now

Yeah it’s my fault, would have expected a note on the silver-to-go site but I should have checked myself. Will just write it off as a £100 mistake and go back to buying gold! 
 

@HillWalkerDundee 48.11% of us can still complain! I’m not sure your presumption about people knowing what they were voting for is correct, but I have a feeling that’s your point! 
 

Happy New Year all. 

[Cornishfarmer]

When Americans buy from the royal mint don’t they buy without the U.K. vat.    So when we buy from Europe shouldn’t we be able to buy tax free from Europe then pay vat when imported?

[HillWalkerDundee]

BackyardBullion

 "but I have a feeling that’s your point! "

Spot on

[Eric1966]

1 hour ago, Cornishfarmer said:

When Americans buy from the royal mint don’t they buy without the U.K. vat.    So when we buy from Europe shouldn’t we be able to buy tax free from Europe then pay vat when imported?

Yes that is what happens now. We buy tax free from Europe, and pay HMRC the 20% VAT on arrival into the UK. 

[Rll1288]

14 minutes ago, Eric1966 said:

Yes that is what happens now. We buy tax free from Europe, and pay HMRC the 20% VAT on arrival into the UK. 

Plus a handling charge by the delivery services.... 

[silversky]

2 hours ago, Cornishfarmer said:

When Americans buy from the royal mint don’t they buy without the U.K. vat.    So when we buy from Europe shouldn’t we be able to buy tax free from Europe then pay vat when imported?

Yes.  They don't have VAT.  Some states have sales tax which they add on but the sale has to have been in that state.  So as far as I know, the Americans can buy Royal mint products 20% cheaper than us Brits.  The Europeans can also buy the same products using their margin scheme in Germany, as can most of the world which doesn't have VAT.  The irony of it all is that it is pretty much only us Brits who have to pay 20% tax to own our own legal tender!

Edited January 8, 2021 by silversky
spelling

[silvernewbie]

What if someone sends coins in a parcel and marks it as a low value gift, how would customs know the value? 

[silversky]

34 minutes ago, silvernewbie said:

What if someone sends coins in a parcel and marks it as a low value gift, how would customs know the value? 

They might or might not xray it and open it.  If they do xray it they will know it's silver and open it if it's more than a small amount.  Once it's been discovered to be illegally marked for customs then who knows where that's going.  You are allowed to send a genuine gift up to £39 in value I think.  But if you're planning a larger amount then it's just smuggling and not worth the agro.  At the very least you'll pay the correct tax on it and then there will probably be a load of penalty charges to pay for their time examining it.  Might end up expensive.

[Connor]

I know there are a few big hitters on here. Lawrence chard, baird mint, etc. Between them and the silver forum, is it out of scope to start petitioning government on this? I'm sure if each respective website (here, atkinsons, chard's, BYB etc) all had a link to sign a petition it would get some movement? Or is this a bit of a whacky idea?

[Connor]

And you would think silver casting grain would be vat free but just a bit more controlled in where it is sold, to allow manufacturers a chance to make sales at a reasonable price. The government makes 20% when someone buys grain then another 20% when that same product is sold after finishing? That's just criminal. 

[Martlet]

33 minutes ago, Connor said:

And you would think silver casting grain would be vat free but just a bit more controlled in where it is sold, to allow manufacturers a chance to make sales at a reasonable price. The government makes 20% when someone buys grain then another 20% when that same product is sold after finishing? That's just criminal. 

That is not how it works.  The manufacturer can claim back the VAT for goods and services they buy.  Only the end consumer pays the VAT.