Beginner - Sovereign vs 1/4 oz

[PeterPan]

Hi All, 

Been reading the forums for a while but this is my first post, so please excuse and daft questions. 

I have dabbled in silver and have some stacked for the future but want to get into gold. After doing my research I've come down on two options... Sovereigns or 1/4 oz coins. These fit with my budget, allowing me to purchase regularly and fit my comfort zone around liquidity and ease of selling should life throw a curve ball. 

I'm interested to know the opinion of more experienced gold buyers. Are sovereigns a better option despite the lower purity? Where's the best place to buy right now? Presumably a UK supplier is fine as there is no VAT on gold?

I keep reading people saying its a great time to get into gold, but also lots predicting a crash, so should I save the cash and hold out for the crash? 

Thanks in advance! 

[HelpingHands]

 

[Gordon]

Hi both sovereigns and 1/4oz coins sound good to me. I find sovereigns to be a lot more collectable. And no one knows where the price of gold is going. It could be in a new bull market or it could be going back down once things get back to normal. I think inflation is coming 

[Melon]

Perhaps this will help you decide which you prefer between 1/4 oz and Sovs. Probably not though 😄

Personally if premium is equal then I prefer 1/4 oz coins. However usually 1/4 oz trade at a higher premium than sovereigns, and I don't think it's worth paying a higher premium for what are ultimately bullion coins. 

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, HelpingHands said:

 

Thanks for the link. The world has changed a lot since November but still some good info, especially that comparison site! 

What's people's opinions on bairds? Reliable? 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Melon said:

Perhaps this will help you decide which you prefer between 1/4 oz and Sovs. Probably not though 😄

Personally if premium is equal then I prefer 1/4 oz coins. However usually 1/4 oz trade at a higher premium than sovereigns, and I don't think it's worth paying a higher premium for what are ultimately bullion coins. 

That is one sexy looking pirate chest! You don't worry about the damage caused by them being loose? 

[Falcon55]

Tip of the day:

Check out Goldprice for up to date prices for all types of gold coins & sovereigns, covers most of the dealers.👍🏼

 

Falcon55 🦅

 

[Sparrow]

While I can't comment on Bairds as I've never used them, I would definitely recommend sovereigns.  While I *think* a sovereign contains a little bit less gold than a quarter ouncer (something like 0.4 grams?) gold sovereigns are super-liquid.  If you ever want/need to sell them then you will not have a difficult time finding a buyer.  Plus sovereigns have greater collector's value, there's numerous different monarchs, different countries' mints, special edition sovereigns,...these coins have been struck since 1817 so in my opinion collecting sovs is much more interesting than quarter-ounce coins.

Talking about the gold price in general, if the global economy sharply rebounded after this crisis and GDP growth rose to pre-Covid levels then that could lead to the price dropping as people take their money out of safe-haven assets - the big one being gold of course,...on the other hand that could also not happen.  Gold goes up in value when people are afraid, be it of defaults, a sharp rose in inflation, global crisis, etc and human beings are not the most rational of creatures.  So my answer to that is; who knows?  I'll leave that to more informed and experienced people than me to comment on.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about the price.  Sometimes you buy at a price which turns out to be high, sometimes you buy at a price which turns out to be low.  It happens to everyone.  The important thing is getting that gold in your hand and either way it's still under-valued.

And worst case-scenario, if you did buy some gold and the price then dropped, you can just buy more at the lower price. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Sparrow

[Melon]

58 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Thanks for the link. The world has changed a lot since November but still some good info, especially that comparison site! 

What's people's opinions on bairds? Reliable? 

Bairds is legit, lots of people use them from TSF and I've personally used them recently with no issues. 

56 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

That is one sexy looking pirate chest! You don't worry about the damage caused by them being loose? 

To be honest they live in capsules out of the house 95% of the time, but that doesn't stop me enjoying a bit of treasure when it's in my hands 😂

[Airhead]

I purchased an old George V Sovereign a week or so (from the forum) and all I can say is wow!! It seems to overshadow my modern Sovereigns in some way perhaps being an “old” coin it has presence perhaps? But I think that I like old coins. Following a link on another thread there was a site selling gold coins from the time of Alexander the Great  and to use the vernacular, I was gobsmacked. A bit expensive though, the Sovereign was expensive enough but I thought that you chaps on the forum seem to recommend to keep buying for cost averaging or something so as you have been doing this for a lot longer than I “took a punt” to yet again use the vernacular.

Keep safe

[Prophecy]

Getting a foothold in gold so you have a hedge with the forthcoming economic situation after this pandemic is a better idea than most outside this forum think.

There is a significant chance that inflation is going to happen that is tangible to the average person and there is a significant chance that the world vs China (CCP) is going to affect things too in whatever form that takes.

If you only have enough each month for a fractional coin you are going to get hit by premium in the long run if you are just after bullion. You could alleviate this by investing what you have each month into something like BullionVault (not an ETF!), so you have skin in the gold game. Then, when you have enough in there for a lower premium 1ozt gold coin you can cash out and buy that. Rinse and repeat. Think hard about the premiums. I think it's a shame that fractional gold punishes those who cannot afford or just don't want standard 1ozt bullion all the time but that's how the market works unfortunately.

Either way, dealer premiums on physical are high at the moment so you could wait for things to settle before getting a coin or two without losing out on the price movement by doing the above.

Just my opinion of course.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Prophecy

[werewolf]

I would definitely opt for Sovereign. It has history attached to it and it is of cultural value in my opinion. I'll give you a simple example , though you may find it might not be of real value in the UK. 

In Romania, a new international PM dealer opened their business recently (in January I think). I won't give their name because they are not worth it. They sold historical and modern gold coins at excellent prices in the beginning. They had a 4% premium for standard 6.45 g coins, even lower for some Austrian coins. And likewise excellent premiums for other bigger coins. Except for the British Sovereign. The premium for it was a lot higher since the beginning - 8%. All premiums went silly high in a few months after the opening.

What I am trying to point out is that the Sovereign might be worth well more than bullion value at least in some other parts of the world.

Edited April 24, 2020 by werewolf

[Prophecy]

16 minutes ago, werewolf said:

I would definitely opt for Sovereign. It has history attached to it and it is of cultural value in my opinion. I'll give you a simple example , though you may find it might not be of real value in the UK. 

In Romania, a new international PM dealer opened their business recently (in January I think). I won't give their name because they are not worth it. They sold historical and modern gold coins at excellent prices in the beginning. They had a 4% premium for standard 6.45 g coins, even lower for some Austrian coins. And likewise excellent premiums for other bigger coins. Except for the British Sovereign. The premium for it was a lot higher since the beginning - 8%. All premiums went silly high in a few months after the opening.

What I am trying to point out is that the Sovereign might be worth well more than bullion value at least in some other parts of the world.

It's always interesting getting views on the Sovereign from people outside it's immediate sphere of historical influence. I wonder why that is... could it be because it's more 'foreign' than the Austrian ones for example? I don't think many people here know much about Romanian and/or eastern European numismatic views from what I have read.

[Xander]

11 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Sovereigns or 1/4 oz coins. These fit with my budget, allowing me to purchase regularly and fit my comfort zone around liquidity and ease of selling should life throw a curve ball. 

Sovereigns are more interesting and really easy to liquidate, they have great history and variety. Atkinson, Chard and Hatton Garden Metals are a good source for coins.

[werewolf]

21 minutes ago, Prophecy said:

It's always interesting getting views on the Sovereign from people outside it's immediate sphere of historical influence. I wonder why that is... could it be because it's more 'foreign' than the Austrian ones for example? I don't think many people here know much about Romanian and/or eastern European numismatic views from what I have read.

Sorry. I've checked the math again in my document and it seems I've mistaken spread for premium. They had buy vs sell prices and I used to look for the least spread for a coin. So...the spread was high for the Sovereign, but the premium was low. Premium was the same as other coins (except for Victoria sovereign), between 4 and 5%. Sorry to confuse you. 

Anyway, I still recommend the British Sovereign vs 1/4 ounce other bullion 9999 coin. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by werewolf

[Arganto]

From my limited experience I've found that you can reliably get a decent full sovereign for a reasonable premium, usually 3-5% from a dealer. You can get good deals on 1/4 oz gold but it's more difficult to find premiums in the same range, dependent on the piece it can be 10-30%. That said if you keep your eye on the trade section of the forum you can get some excellent scores (I recommend the small outlay for premium membership to see what is being sold as it is posted). Sometimes you'll see something that its priced barely above spot. If you're buying on roughly the same day each month to tie in with a pay packet or similar it will narrow your options as to what you can pick up, in which case a regular bead on a sovereign from a dealer (Baird & Co and Chards are stand outs) or a regular seller on the forum may be more appropriate for you. Don't forget fractional that isn't 999 gold. The 1/4 oz gold Eagle for instance is .900 but contains a full 1/4 oz of gold with the rest as additional weight. You can usually find these for a better premium deal than say a Maple. Don't forget circulated coins from other countries if you like stuff with a bit of history, gold Pesos are popular around here although I have yet to dabble with these myself.

Enjoy, and be prepared to get carried away unless you are very disciplined...

[Booky586]

34 minutes ago, Liam84 said:

Enjoy, and be prepared to get carried away unless you are very disciplined...

.....Gold fever. Definition; "the contagious excitement of a good rush"

Buy sovereigns, easy to buy, easy to sell, low margins. Once you have a few and you're happy move onto other coins, then 1/4 oz if that still takes your fancy. Don't be limited, but watch out for gold fever......

Edited April 24, 2020 by Booky586

[Foster88]

My advice, I’m starting to sound like a veteran here, but not having only been here for almost two years I’m certainly not a veteran and still have much to learn but I’ve noticed a big influx of newbies.

Anyway, we all have to start somewhere.

Use this guide http://goldprice.eu5.net/

Personally, I’d buy sovereigns over any other gold bullion coins. That’s all the advice I can offer.

Just buy what you like and like what you buy.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Foster88

[PeterPan]

Thanks for all the advice guys. 

One thing I have noticed is the popularity of older sovereigns. See far more from early 1900's than I do from the last 20 years. Is there any particular reason for this?

[Booky586]

Sovereigns were used as currency and were in general circulation up until the 1st world war. The UK government needed money to supply the war effort and imports were paid for in gold, leading to a shortage in gold for coinage. Around this time paper notes were issued by the Bank of England to replace the lack of sovereigns being minted. After the war the use of sovereigns as currency became redundant.

Sovereign mintage figures for the London mint before the war were approx:

1911 = 30,000,000

1912 = 30,000,000

1913 = 24,500,000

1914 = 11,500,000

Compared to modern bullion mint numbers of:

2003 = 43,000

2004 = 30,000

2005 = 45,000

2006 = 75,000

All figures are taken from http://www.cruzis-coins.com/sovs/Sovmintage.html#kgv

The quality of the coins minted pre 1974 is of a far higher standard (IMHO), than the modern bullion sovereigns issued nowadays. 

 

[365DaysofSilver]

On 24/04/2020 at 12:49, Melon said:

Perhaps this will help you decide which you prefer between 1/4 oz and Sovs. Probably not though 😄

Personally if premium is equal then I prefer 1/4 oz coins. However usually 1/4 oz trade at a higher premium than sovereigns, and I don't think it's worth paying a higher premium for what are ultimately bullion coins. 

One of the best photos I’ve seen on this site so far 😍

[Fishface220]

46 minutes ago, Mothballjim said:

One of the best photos I’ve seen on this site so far 😍

A beauty that’s for sure.... 

who doesn’t like a chest of gold coins! 

[GoldFort]

Right now I’m trying to decide between a half sov and 4 1oz Brit silver coins, or 1/10 and 4 1oz Brit coin