Gold Monitoring Thread £ GBP only

[ZRPMs]

4 minutes ago, Gruff said:

If it does get to that, then there will be complete capital flight out of the FIAT ponzi stock market and Wall Street will go bang

Watches for diversity.

[Gruff]

Just now, ZRPMs said:

Watches for diversity.

No need to tell the time when we all jobless..

[ZRPMs]

1 minute ago, Gruff said:

No need to tell the time when we all jobless..

So I've backed a donkey, bugger

[kimchi]

6 minutes ago, Gruff said:

If it does get to that, then there will be complete capital flight out of the FIAT ponzi stock market and Wall Street will go bang

Out of the dollar, and yes (sorry!) I am expecting the US to be the first domino to fall.

[Gruff]

Just now, ZRPMs said:

So I've backed a donkey, bugger

Even a donkey is useful! And generally has a nice ass  

[kimchi]

1 minute ago, Gruff said:

Even a donkey is useful! And generally has a nice ass  

Wives will be too expensive, every man and his dog will be after a donkey.

[kimchi]

7 minutes ago, kimchi said:

Wives will be too expensive, every man and his dog will be after a donkey.

You can marry them btw in several states in the US (just in case that may be of help of someone)

It must be true, I saw a documentary on the BBC about it!

Shares in donkeys are a very safe bet right now I think.

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

8 hours ago, HerefordBullyun said:

Regardless I dont believe theres 8000 tonnes of gold in the US as it's never been shown or made public...

I call bollox

If Biden can issue $4 trillion+ in spending plans and the USA can be $35 trillion in debt, then the Treasury can have $600 billion in gold, it's basically a rounding error. There are black budget agencies with bigger budgets than that. Put yourself in the position of a global puppet master able to print your own money with zero oversight. Would you leave yourself poor or would you own a monster stack of gold and every other asset on the planet? 

7 hours ago, HerefordBullyun said:

If USA has more gold than china then I am pope Gregory the ninth skiing naked on the river near the Vatican...

China is a poor country. The GDP per capita is $12,500 (IMF, 2023) and the lion's share of that is concentrated on the East Coast, where the GDP per capita is similar to Japan or South Korea ($30-35K). The west of China is one of the poorest regions anywhere on earth. China has only been an economic powerhouse for about 30-40 years. The European dynasties were powerhouses for centuries.

The USA essentially took most of the gold from the two most powerful Empires - Britain and France (also Germany) - during WWI & WWII. That's why the USA was given global reserve currency status at Bretton Woods - they took most of our gold and their manufacturing base existed in splendid isolation from war damages while Europe, China and Japan were reduced to rubble. Both Britain (Canada) and France (USA) transferred the majority of their gold, several thousand tons, to North America circa 1940 before the fall of France.

Under the USA's terms of neutrality, which lasted until after December 1941 (Pearl Harbor) no credit could be used to fund the war efforts of the UK or France - gold and USD (convertible to gold) were the only acceptable forms of payment. Thus all the gold the French and British transferred to North America ended up in the pockets of the Americans, along with the USD reserves. By the conclusion of WWI and WWII the USA had control over global finance and held a substantial chunk of the hard currency accrued by the Europeans over centuries, including the gold the Europeans took from China and India

China is on a desperate gold buying spree not because China has the biggest stack in the world but because their stack is basically non-existent relative to the size of their population - about 1g per capita compared with India's approx 17g per capita.

China needs the gold to hedge against their property market (the largest physical market in the world), their manufacturing sector and currency risk, while also signalling to the world that no matter what happens, China has the means to stabilise its economy. When the size of China's property market is roughly $50 trillion compared to the USA's $30ish trillion, China has a lot more gold to buy before it can effectively hedge anything. 

[Chronos]

26 minutes ago, kimchi said:

I thought they sang 'Thundercats are on the move'? 🤔

"Thunder, thunder, ThunderCats Ho!"

 

[Gruff]

5 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

If Biden can issue $4 trillion+ in spending plans and the USA can be $35 trillion in debt, then the Treasury can have $600 billion in gold, it's basically a rounding error. There are black budget agencies with bigger budgets than that. Put yourself in the position of a global puppet master able to print your own money with zero oversight. Would you leave yourself poor or would you own a monster stack of gold and every other asset on the planet? 

China is a poor country. The GDP per capita is $12,500 (IMF, 2023) and the lion's share of that is concentrated on the East Coast, where the GDP per capita is similar to Japan or South Korea ($30-35K). The west of China is one of the poorest regions anywhere on earth. China has only been an economic powerhouse for about 30-40 years. The European dynasties were powerhouses for centuries.

The USA essentially took most of the gold from the two most powerful Empires - Britain and France (also Germany) - during WWI & WWII. That's why the USA was given global reserve currency status at Bretton Woods - they took most of our gold and their manufacturing base existed in splendid isolation from war damages while Europe, China and Japan were reduced to rubble. Both Britain (Canada) and France (USA) transferred the majority of their gold, several thousand tons, to North America circa 1940 before the fall of France.

Under the USA's terms of neutrality, which lasted until after December 1941 (Pearl Harbor) no credit could be used to fund the war efforts of the UK or France - gold and USD (convertible to gold) were the only acceptable forms of payment. Thus all the gold the French and British transferred to North America ended up in the pockets of the Americans, along with the USD reserves. By the conclusion of WWI and WWII the USA had control over global finance and held a substantial chunk of the hard currency accrued by the Europeans over centuries, including the gold the Europeans took from China and India

China is on a desperate gold buying spree not because China has the biggest stack in the world but because their stack is basically non-existent relative to the size of their population - about 1g per capita compared with India's approx 17g per capita.

China needs the gold to hedge against their property market (the largest physical market in the world), their manufacturing sector and currency risk, while also signalling to the world that no matter what happens, China has the means to stabilise its economy. When the size of China's property market is roughly $50 trillion compared to the USA's $30ish trillion, China has a lot more gold to buy before it can effectively hedge anything. 

China is one of the largest gold producers on the planet and all gold mined in China, stays in China. A lot of those that study these markets Alasdair Macleod and others all suggest that China has a lot more gold than published via the World Gold Council. 
Even if they only mine 300 tonnes annually in China, multiply that by 20 years, that's 6,000 tonnes, plus all they've bought over the last several years on the OTC markets etc..  

I'd hazard a guess that they have 8,000 tonnes or more. 

China have been selling US T-bonds and buying gold, they've reduced their Treasury holdings massively over the last few years. All that currency has to go somewhere, it's not all gone into propping up their own markets. That would then have spiked inflation by flooding their own markets with liquidity. 

[kimchi]

4 minutes ago, Chronos said:

"Thunder, thunder, ThunderCats Ho!"

 

Do NOT get me started on Monkey Magic or other tools I use for predictive analytics please, it will get FAR too technical for his thread...

 

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

On the historic and contemporary value of gold ....

Gold, World War II And Operation Fish (forbes.com)

In 1933, the Reich’s official holdings stood at only $109 million—not nearly enough to finance the kind of force Hitler envisioned.

The Greatest Gold Heist in History

So began the Reich’s looting of Europe’s gold reserves, beginning with Austria’s in 1938. At the time, Germany’s coffers were nearly empty. The infusion of Austria’s 90 to 100 metric tons of hard currency gave Hitler the boost he needed to continue his plundering.

Today we remember the Nazi’s gold heist as “one of the greatest thefts by a government in history,” in the words of Ambassador and Undersecretary of Commerce Stuart E. Eizenstat, spoken during his 1997 hearing on the status of Holocaust assets. Although estimates vary, and although the gold price fluctuates over time, it’s believed that as much as $600 million—now valued in the billions—were seized from the central banks and vaults of neighboring, occupied countries, including Austria, Poland, Belgium, Holland and the Netherlands. Millions more in silver, platinum, diamonds, artwork and other assets were stolen as well.

Operation Fish

Not every country’s hoard was pilfered, however. Once it was clear what the Nazis were up to, many outlying European countries had the prudence and foresight to secure their own reserves and keep them falling into Hitler’s hands.

And this is where we catch up with the timeline in Darkest Hour. In July 1940, as fears of a Nazi invasion intensified by the day, the U.K. shipped as much as 1,500 metric tons in gold—worth a mind-boggling $160 billion in 2017 dollars—across the Atlantic to be stored in Canada’s central bank in Ottawa.

One of the gold-bearing ships, the HMS Enterprise

Codenamed “Operation Fish,” the evacuation was one of the greatest gambles ever. Writes Ottawa-based historian James Powell:

The only way to transport the tons of gold and securities was by ship across the U-boat infested North Atlantic, where 100 Allied and neutral merchant ships had been sunk in May 1940 alone. History was also not reassuring. During World War I, the SS Laurentic, carrying 43 tons of gold from Liverpool to Halifax, had been sunk in 1917 by a German U-boat off of Ireland. The loss of even one treasure ship would have major negative consequences. To buy weapons and other war materiel that it sorely needed from neutral United States, Britain had to pay in gold or U.S. dollars; no credit was permitted under the strict Neutrality Act in effect in the United States at that time.

Britain’s gamble paid off. Every last ingot made it safely across the Atlantic and was prevented from being used by the Nazis to extend their reign of terror a single day longer.

Germany Today a Gold Powerhouse

Although Hitler’s goals were despicable, his absolute need for gold reflects the precious metal’s centuries-long role as a widely accepted and trusted currency.

It’s a lesson Germany hasn’t forgotten, even today.

The country’s official gold holdings stand at 3,372 metric tons, more than any other except the U.S. Gold represents a whopping 70 percent of its foreign reserves—again, second only to the U.S. This has helped Germany become one of the most powerful and stable economies in the world.

More recently, Germany has emerged as the world’s largest gold investor. Although China and India still outpace the European country in total amount of gold consumed, Germans are ploughing more money into gold coins, bars and exchange-traded commodities (ETCs).

[ZRPMs]

3 minutes ago, kimchi said:

Do NOT get me started on Monkey Magic or other tools I use for predictive analytics please, it will get FAR too technical for his thread...

 

A blast from the past. 

[bobski]

Live Gold Price

Au

Current Price

£1,853.47

Live Change

-0.06% £-1.01

Live high £1,854.76

 

Live low £1,853.02

[kimchi]

6 minutes ago, ZRPMs said:

A blast from the past. 

@HerefordBullyun's curtains are, I believe, the ultimate record of blasts from the past, and this is why he is preserving their proof status so carefully.

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

4 minutes ago, Gruff said:

China is one of the largest gold producers on the planet and all gold mined in China, stays in China. A lot of those that study these markets Alasdair Macleod and others all suggest that China has a lot more gold than published via the World Gold Council. 
Even if they only mine 300 tonnes annually in China, multiply that by 20 years, that's 6,000 tonnes, plus all they've bought over the last several years on the OTC markets etc..  

I'd hazard a guess that they have 8,000 tonnes or more. 

China have been selling US T-bonds and buying gold, they've reduced their Treasury holdings massively over the last few years. All that currency has to go somewhere, it's not all gone into propping up their own markets. That would then have spiked inflation by flooding their own markets with liquidity. 

Yep one imagines the Chinese have a healthy hoard of gold but economics is not absolute, it's relative. For the sake of argument let's say the USA and China have equal stacks - that would still make the USA four times richer per capita in terms of gold. I don't believe that's how things are though.

It begs the question why would China hide this gold when it wants the gold as a hedge against currency risk, property market, etc, and to flaunt this wealth/strength to the globe? Saving face and looking good is a big thing to the Chinese. It's not the most robust analysis ever but I'm pretty sure if they had it, they would be flaunting it.

We can calculate how much gold is above and below ground. I've looked at the figures from the guy you quoted before and the numbers do not add up, unless, of course, you subscribe to the theory that the USA transferred those 8,000 tons to China

 

Central Banks Gold Reserves by Country | World Gold Council

 

[bobski]

3 minutes ago, kimchi said:

@HerefordBullyun's curtains are, I believe, the ultimate record of blasts from the past, and this is why he is preserving their proof status so carefully.

 

Current Price

£1,852.60

[gji25]

2 hours ago, Gruff said:

No need to tell the time when we all jobless..

But how much will unemployment benefit be ?

[gji25]

1 hour ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

For the sake of argument let's say the USA and China have equal stacks

That means they have Nada/Zilch/Nought

[Chronos]

Japan Is Now Caught In A Doom Loop:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/japan-now-caught-doom-loop

[James32]

1 minute ago, Chronos said:

Japan Is Now Caught In A Doom Loop:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/japan-now-caught-doom-loop

I'm going to catch you in a net.

😆 

[Gruff]

1 hour ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Yep one imagines the Chinese have a healthy hoard of gold but economics is not absolute, it's relative. For the sake of argument let's say the USA and China have equal stacks - that would still make the USA four times richer per capita in terms of gold. I don't believe that's how things are though.

It begs the question why would China hide this gold when it wants the gold as a hedge against currency risk, property market, etc, and to flaunt this wealth/strength to the globe? Saving face and looking good is a big thing to the Chinese. It's not the most robust analysis ever but I'm pretty sure if they had it, they would be flaunting it.

We can calculate how much gold is above and below ground. I've looked at the figures from the guy you quoted before and the numbers do not add up, unless, of course, you subscribe to the theory that the USA transferred those 8,000 tons to China

 

Central Banks Gold Reserves by Country | World Gold Council

 

I'm not so sure you know. China has been done over like all of us by the US before and so they are playing a careful political game of chess. I think they'll show their hand at some point in the future to drive a knife into the heart of the US banking system. 

The East plays the long game. The West is purely concerned with 4 or 5 year cycles and what they can do to line their pockets to the max within that short time frame.   

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

8 minutes ago, Gruff said:

I'm not so sure you know. China has been done over like all of us by the US before and so they are playing a careful political game of chess. I think they'll show their hand at some point in the future to drive a knife into the heart of the US banking system. 

The East plays the long game. The West is purely concerned with 4 or 5 year cycles and what they can do to line their pockets to the max within that short time frame.   

You might be right mate, a lot of people say the same thing - the communists are working on decades and centuries-long masterplans. I don't believe that's true. I think they're only human and have to face the inevitable consequences of attempting to create perfect policies that apply over an entire economy and over 1.4 billion people. I think they're lurching from crisis to crisis and the future of the CCP itself is at risk due to how poorly (inevitably so) they have managed their economy - like spending $trillions on high speed rail lines to nowhere that will never be profitable, or building ghost cities. The Chinese economy is collapsing as we speak and many credible analysts (economists, geopolitical, intelligence agencies, military strategists) believe the only way out for Xi and the CCP is to go to war with Taiwan to distract the population from their failures. That doesn't sound like a masterplan to me

There is one group who operates over decades and centuries - the Jesuits - who control the Masons and the Illuminati. Yep I'm slightly crazy, I know. I believe in secret societies and interdimensional aliens. So does Elon Musk FWIW

I think that given the economic and environmental backdrop, the CCP would be quick to point at their huge gold stack to quell the population, which is on the verge of revolution. I also don't believe the Chinese would pay a premium to the west for physical gold if they had an enormous central stack they could use to prop up their regional and local banks. 

[Gruff]

4 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

the Jesuits - who control the Masons and the Illuminati. Yep I'm slightly crazy, I know. I believe in secret societies and interdimensional aliens

I'm with you on this! 

Edited May 8 by Gruff
Update

[Thelonerangershorse]

Time to start stacking tin foil, those hats are going to be very popular.