SILVER DEALS - (UK & Europe) See a deal, post it here

[katyc]

2 hours ago, Jimmock said:

I will repeat my earlier answer - the "vat margin" scheme only applies to coins,bars and silver rounds can not be purchased vat free,unless it is being stored by the company your buying it off. Even then you will need to pay the vat,if you ever want to physically hold it.

You are confusing second hand (margin VAT) with brand new stored items (VAT Free). Stored that are VAT free is when you buy brand new silver from a dealer who stores it outside of the UK, thus free from VAT. 

The margin scheme relates to second-hand silver, so VAT only applies on the profit made (same as second-hand car dealers, antiques, collectables etc). The buyer receives an order confirmation/invoice with zero vat showing, but the seller records the second hand transactions in a "stock book" and pays VAT on the profit. 

Edited February 14 by katyc

[Jimmock]

Thank you for your email.

 

 

 

There is a long version of the reply to your questions but the short answer is this,

 

 

 

The Margin Scheme run by HMRC allows us to re sell pre owned silver coins without the vat as they are “Collectable” coins. Any other silver, bars, rounds etc MUST be charged with VAT.

 

 

 

That is the rule if we buy the coins from the public. If we buy the coins from a client who has bought them through their business then we pay them the VAT and we must follow the line of VAT and charge VAT on the coins even though they are pre owned.

 

 

 

Hope that helps?

 

 

 

Kind Regards

 

 

Paul

 

 

 

This was reply I received from atkinsons when I questioned them about it.

 

 This is from another thread on here from 2017,this is the answer I received from Paul Atkinson,when I asked him about it. 😁

[MBTPSilver]

Strange, sounds like they've misunderstood the scheme, as there's nothing about it being linked to collectibles or coins. It just has to be silver (or platinum/palladium) sold above the market value.

[katyc]

The guy from Atkinsons, stating whether from public or another company, is a little misleading because the margin rule can apply regardless from both public and reseller (depending on how VAT is applied from the company seller).

If it's a fully VATable sale then the company selling the silver to Atkinsons will have charged full VAT to Atkinsons (so Atkinsons pay full VAT on the sale and no margin scheme applies). This could be because the company selling the silver bought the silver brande new (paying full VAT) or they bought if for at or below spot (also fully VATable -  even if second hand). That's my take home/assumptions here. 

I used to do VAT returns for a living, but back then didn't deal with PMs, hence adding an "I could be wrong" disclaimer. But any PM stock I've bought in recent years (to protect my retail business through tough times) was from auction places which clearly defined margin scheme on the invoice so, thankfully I have no concerns there with ny VAT return. But if I was to buy the Atkinsons second-hand stock in this example, I'd go straight to a senior accountant and check. And even then I'd worry if the advice was right because there are so many definitions with the vagueness of HMRC!

Side note; there is also a rule on the definition of margin scheme being both second hand and "collectable" but the general consensus among most PM retailers and accountants is that they can pretty much define it as collectable (so they do), hence use the margin scheme. 

They say "tax doesn't have to be taxing". But what a load of b*locks that is!

[timsk]

This debate reminds me of a hot topic on another forum that I've been a member for many years called Trade2Win. It's for people who want to discuss trading the financial markets. There, the issue is whether or not traders are liable to pay tax (of any kind) on profits made via Spread Betting - as opposed to CFDs, futures or stocks etc. which are all taxable in some form or another. It'a grey area: some folks argue yes and some no. Either way, the HMRC are the common denominator, and the cynic in me can't help but wonder if the vagueness of their guidance on the two issues is - how shall I phrase this - not entirely accidental?!

😝

[MrStacker]

https://www.royalmint.com/collect/archive/2018/queens-beasts-2018-black-bull-2oz-silver-coin/

2oz QB Bulls back in stock if anyone needs to complete their sets.

Still cheaper than other dealers with their high premiums.

[Silverlocks]

On 14/02/2024 at 17:37, timsk said:

This debate reminds me of a hot topic on another forum that I've been a member for many years called Trade2Win. It's for people who want to discuss trading the financial markets. There, the issue is whether or not traders are liable to pay tax (of any kind) on profits made via Spread Betting - as opposed to CFDs, futures or stocks etc. which are all taxable in some form or another. It'a grey area: some folks argue yes and some no. Either way, the HMRC are the common denominator, and the cynic in me can't help but wonder if the vagueness of their guidance on the two issues is - how shall I phrase this - not entirely accidental?!

😝

I suspect that HMRC will be vague on anything that doesn't have a legal precedent from a case unless the law itself is completely unambiguous.  They can't guarantee that their interpretation of the law will be what a judge would decide on if something actually went to court.  This means that until there has been a case they risk winding up with egg on their face (and a rash of lawsuits challenging previous decisions) if they put any implicit interpretation of the law in the advice in their publications.  There's an obvious incentive there to be coy about interpreting the law in public documents.

Then there's the law itself.  Without making any judgement on whether Parliament is really motivated to make transparent, universally enforceable laws in the first place, there's the problem that once you codify something, you gamify it.  If you state that structure A is taxable and structure B isn't, people are immediately going to set up their finances along structure B where at at all possible.  So, the natural tendency of a legal system is to evolve into a series of loopholes and ad-hoc patches.    

Then you can get folks with a vested interest in the law remaining complex and opaque, such as Intuit (the makers of TurboTax) lobbying the Merkin government to keep the tax laws as they are, and blocking the IRS from simplifying the tax structures.

Very occasionally, the law will be such a mess that somebody can get support for a major reform, but it tends to be the exception rather than the rule.  

 

Edited February 20 by Silverlocks

[timsk]

31 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

. . . Very occasionally, the law will be such a mess that somebody can get support for a major reform, but it tends to be the exception rather than the rule.  

Excellent post Silverlocks - thank you.

In the case of Spread Betting that I refereed to, those who maintain that's it's completely tax free have a strong case, IMO. Namely, that the clue is in the name: spread betting, aka gambling. Just as gambling profits from the gee gees and casinos are tax free, so too are profits from the markets made using this particular financial instrument. They go on to argue that because upwards of 70% of spread bettors lose, there's little point in taxing the few who win, not least because it would enable the losers to offset their losses against tax in the future. That makes no financial sense for HMRC and, additionally, they have much to lose in terms of a massive increase in workload. 

Edited February 20 by timsk

[MBTPSilver]

BBP also doing a 2023 silver clearance sale. Not sure on bullion, but there are a few proof coins that are below RRP - https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/special-offers/2023-silver-clearance/

[Chronos]

Europa Bullion:

As a token of appreciation for your continued support, we're delighted to offer you an exclusive discount of 1% off your purchase of silver, palladium and platinum valid from 23.03 to 03.03.2024. Simply use the code WEAREBACK1 at checkout to redeem your savings. It's our way of saying thank you for choosing for all your bullion needs.

[LiquidMetalsUK]

Atkinson's spot priced silver 

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/silver/silver-coins/1oz-silver-coins/2024-britannia-1oz-silver-promotion-10-ounces-at-spot-price

[Stacktastic]

7 minutes ago, LiquidMetalsUK said:

Atkinson's spot priced silver 

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/silver/silver-coins/1oz-silver-coins/2024-britannia-1oz-silver-promotion-10-ounces-at-spot-price

One for me.  

I do think we will see £15 silver this year at some point when reality sets in that we are in a recession, but cant complain with that. 

Edited February 24 by Stacktastic

[Petra]

31 minutes ago, Stacktastic said:

One for me.  

I do think we will see £15 silver this year at some point when reality sets in that we are in a recession, but cant complain with that. 

As (hopefully) non seller of silver that would be great, but factor in VAT, that’s some drop!🤔😮😮

[Stacktastic]

5 minutes ago, Petra said:

As (hopefully) non seller of silver that would be great, but factor in VAT, that’s some drop!🤔😮😮

Sorry - the £15's I meant not £15. Spot only. 
Probably mid £15's again. 

Edited February 24 by Stacktastic

[Petra]

3 minutes ago, Stacktastic said:

Sorry - the £15's I meant not £15. Spot only. 
Probably mid £15's again. 

👍

[PhilB]

1 hour ago, LiquidMetalsUK said:

Atkinson's spot priced silver 

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/silver/silver-coins/1oz-silver-coins/2024-britannia-1oz-silver-promotion-10-ounces-at-spot-price

That's a great deal! 

[mik]

3 hours ago, LiquidMetalsUK said:

Atkinson's spot priced silver 

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/silver/silver-coins/1oz-silver-coins/2024-britannia-1oz-silver-promotion-10-ounces-at-spot-price

This is all I want from life....❤️ 💰 ❤️

[MBTPSilver]

An impressive offer, quite the loss they're taking on those.

[timsk]

53 minutes ago, MBTPSilver said:

An impressive offer, quite the loss they're taking on those.

I can't work it out either! Obviously, it's great for turnover - they'll get £1,000s through their books - but it's tough to see how they'll make anything out of it. Perhaps they're hoping that it'll direct lots of traffic to their site - which I'm sure it will - and punters will pick up something else while they're there that they wouldn't otherwise have bought? Just speculating - it's a head-scratcher. Be that as it may - thank you Atkinsons! 👍

[Silverman2U]

52 minutes ago, timsk said:

I can't work it out either! Obviously, it's great for turnover - they'll get £1,000s through their books - but it's tough to see how they'll make anything out of it. Perhaps they're hoping that it'll direct lots of traffic to their site - which I'm sure it will - and punters will pick up something else while they're there that they wouldn't otherwise have bought? Just speculating - it's a head-scratcher. Be that as it may - thank you Atkinsons! 👍

This is exactly what it will do. Smart move!! 
I pay over £70 a lead in our business and get loads of time wasters. Though are limiting it to 10 coins, so limiting their expenses and potential even paying out of their own pocket. But yet even if they loose £20-30 from each deal they only need to get a few good people from like minded people that invest and they will make that all back and plus some!  … love it! 😻 

[katyc]

Not quite the Atkinsons deal, but £22.95 for a brit, reducing to £22.77 each if you buy a tube. 

Delivery is free.

https://www.sharpspixley.com/buy-bullion/buy-silver/silver-coins/2020-1oz-britannia-silver-coin-pre-owned?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=campaign&_kx=Jlt0_TQaAQUaqkIKhkODCXvuCWvd-dPgkws5IslqjLQ.UES7aT

Edited February 28 by katyc

[Spark268]

On 25/02/2024 at 15:30, Silverman2U said:

This is exactly what it will do. Smart move!! 
I pay over £70 a lead in our business and get loads of time wasters. Though are limiting it to 10 coins, so limiting their expenses and potential even paying out of their own pocket. But yet even if they loose £20-30 from each deal they only need to get a few good people from like minded people that invest and they will make that all back and plus some!  … love it! 😻 

well now they have closed the deal but have an email signup page for those who may be interested. I guess now they can get leads without giving anything way!

[Silverman2U]

1 minute ago, Spark268 said:

well now they have closed the deal but have an email signup page for those who may be interested. I guess now they can get leads without giving anything way!

😜 

[Silverman2U]

Just now, Silverman2U said:

😜

Even better marketing. Create the hype, pull the plug, the leads continue to flow. Fair play to them, they got me attention… the magpie that I am  

 

[Petra]

42 minutes ago, Silverman2U said:

Even better marketing. Create the hype, pull the plug, the leads continue to flow. Fair play to them, they got me attention… the magpie that I am  

 

I have bought quite a bit from Atkinsons …. mainly gold. Just wait until a decent offer up. Free postage, quick delivery, no hassle🤔😮