sixgun

@swAgger my intention has been to build up a holding of KVT's. At the point the pre-ICO coins are available i may buy some. The yield on these will be greater but as i intend to mint like a demon i am not that swayed by the higher yield. If a pre-ICO coin yields twice a post-ICO, then two cycles of post-ICO minting and you are even.

If this works the KVT's will be money trees. This is where the risk is and this is why the blueprint promises the perpetual yield. If Kinesis doesn't do much your KAU/KAG's are blockchain title over metal and you are good but KVT's are poorly performing tokens and potentially a complete wipe out. You will have to work hard minting and indefinitely so to keep up with the yield on KVT's which require no work. i have been adding KVT's every month - i did so this month (which is why i have denied myself some of the silver bars for sale on the forum which i would have loved to have got).

i am in the Kinesis Ambassadors group. i didn't realise i was until the last week. It is a  small group of people who have shown an interest and made some useful comments. It is a Kinesis think tank outside of the company. We don't get anything out of it but the discussions are interesting. My advice to you would be to hold off getting more KVT's right now. Kinesis needs to secure registration as a Designated Business. It is a registration with the Isle of Man authorities where the business plan and the people running it are vetted. It is to see if the people running it are fit and proper and that Kinesis is not counterfeiting/laundering money. They are hopeful but i note they have been negotiating with the IoM authorities for several months. Digital Gold Limited, which is running BullionCoin in which the ABX were negotiating a joint venture, has Designated Business status and got in the middle of 2017. The business model of BullionCoin is very similar so as long as the board of Kinesis have not been convicted of certain offences one would assume there will be no issues but i note negotiations have been going on for several months. They have alternatives to the IoM and will go to another jurisdiction if the application is rejected and do not anticipate any delays in launch even if this does happen.  This registration is fundamental to the business. Quite a few in the Ambassadors group are not going to buy more KVT's until this is sorted. i am the same. i intend to lump all KVT's into a single corporate entity which will not be subject to taxation. The number of KVT's is sufficient to generate sufficient yield to mint decent quantities of coins - quite quickly at the KWG and KWS level. So i am not that fussed about getting the pre-ico coins. Once i get going i would hope to be cycling through the minting process at least once a week and more if i can fit them in.

A few fingers from BYB

1 minute ago, Oldun said:

Can you avoid taxation on this kenesis when you convert or does it rely on everyone on the planet accepting it as it is ?

You will be able to spend the Kinesis currency with a Visa and Mastercard. The retailer could take the currency or the Kinesis currency will be converted to fiat in the transaction.   Kinesis is a digital currency. So it would be like going to a shop with USD. Does the shop take USD? If they do you pay in USD. If they don't the conversion will take place on the fly. The mobile bank involved in this will buy the Kinesis and pay in the retailer's fiat of choice. It is a money exchange process.

It will depend on how the various tax authorities view this.

2 hours ago, Mildred said:

End of manipulation, market disruptions...
Maguire went to the CFTC in NY as a whistle-blower.
At the end of his deposition about the manipulation of the silver market and his demand of end it, the reaction of other side was Yes but what about the economic consequences. Maguire understood they were going to do nothing about it. Privates had to end it by themselves. Maybe, that was the beginning of Kinesis.

Let's play the devil's advocate.
There is this line, Be careful for what you wish because it could take place. Something like that.
Reset. Market disruptions. Only PM markets? Maybe currency markets too. Currencies disruptions? Hyperinflation?
Is it better to be an above water bum within a rich neighborhood or a rich within a neighborhood of paupers?
Some people know guns, defence, security etc. I don't. I would sink gloryless within two weeks

What I'm just saying is I'm not sure that PM investors will be better off after the upcoming reset, at least not all

You are correct in your account of Andrew Maguire. He presented his evidence, it was compelling, we should say irrefutable. He predicted manipulation, he told them it would happen and low and behold it did. Even a causal glance at the charts shows it. i have heard Maguire say that as he left with his lawyers he decided he would not give up, he would end the manipulation.

So there is manipulation, all sides admit it. As a long term stacker one could rightly say a low price is good. You can stack more. You look ahead in the expectation of a repricing of precious metals but not this month please, i have my eye on more gold and silver.

Personally i am very keen on Kinesis. If it works it will make a lot of money for my family. There will be multi generational financially security for us. A reset in price is not needed for Kinesis to work but as it works it will be a significant push towards the reset.

Eddie George (the then BoE governor) commented that it was looking into the abyss when a price reset looked possible. That the price of gold had to be controlled whatever the cost. "... what about the economic consequences?...."

Whether Jefferson said it or not it is true:

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.”

The usual suspects were heavily short gold and would have gone under had gold continued to climb in price. It was more of the too big to fail. Goldman Sachs was the main culprit. Half the UK's gold was sold at fire sale prices to bail out criminal banks. We had the same nonsense in 2008. $trillions gifted to the banks. They should have been let them go. They say these trading houses cannot be allowed to collapse, the fallout would be too much. They are parasites. Fiat currency and the whole present day banking system is designed to steal from the people. It is like heroin. Withdraw and there will be cold turkey. So we are supposed to keep jacking up, think of the poor old pushers? - think of the economic consequences. There are always consequences.

The fiat currency system is about done with. There will have to be a reset in price. Kinesis will not cause it to happen on its own. The dollar is dying. i hear almost on a daily basis about something or other where the dollar is being replaced by gold, the RMB or Rouble. The RMB and Rouble will be gold backed. They are not stacking gold bars to the ceiling for nothing.

You have been warned. There will be a credit crisis. Credit will freeze. The system will need to restart. Make sure you are in a good place or at least a better place.

1 minute ago, matrawr said:

ASE's? Surely it would make more sense for them to hold it in delivery bars?

Maguire has said (not publicly) JPM and another bank have cornered the physical silver market. From memory the other bank might have been HSBC but i am not sure about that. i have heard him repeat the two banks cornering the market many times. JPM deny they have this silver (on their account) but i would not trust them to tell the truth about anything. There is the story the JPM silver was bought as ASE's.  If JPM has bought silver through the US Mint there is nothing to say it is still held as ASE's - it could have been melted down into bars. JPM with HSBC has the majority of the COMEX silver and JPM is the custodian of the SLV. With so many tentacles out there amassing a stockpile whilst talking price down and going short in the paper market with the regulator in their pocket would a breeze.

3 minutes ago, matrawr said:

 if you're looking at videos about them acquiring large amounts of silver it's either outdated or just plain rubbish. I'm not saying it's impossible but more often than not the banks will beat us at the money game.

The JPM silver stack info is not from videos -  they do hold the silver and deny they have any. They are an agent bank for the Fed - so it could belong to the US Treasury, hence it is ASE's.

46 minutes ago, STONE said:

Agreed. Something big is coming down the pipeline when the big players amass large amounts of gold and silver. I have heard that some other private big players are moving out of stocks and into PM's very quietly ahead of the coming storm. The USD is a joke, its all debt based. I am grateful I can still trade worthless FRN's for real money, gold and silver!

JPM built up its silver stack all the time it was shorting on the paper market. The stack is supposedly mainly ASE's which is odd. They deny the silver is theirs.

Goldmans has been building a physical gold position for some time. When the vampire squid is stacking gold you know something is coming down the pike.

11 minutes ago, STONE said:

Interesting. I agree a large initial purchase for backing will be necessary. I wonder if China and Russia would be involved? They have been buying physical hand over fist for a while now. Its going to take a few big players to bring down the current manipulation.

Maguire mentioned a central bank is supportive of Kinesis, i don't think this was publicly. When a question was asked on one of the video interviews about the risk of the metal being confiscated both Maguire and Coughlin said Kinesis has powerful friends. At a guess this could be referring to the central banking friend. Considering the moves of Russia and China to undermine the USD, it would not surprise me if it were one of that duo.

1 hour ago, STONE said:

Futures contracts are almost always settled in cash since those quantity's of gold and silver actually do not exist.

Contracts are settled in cash b/c most of the participants are not interested in buying physical. This year there has been a change in this position. More and more longs are standing for delivery. As you say the COMEX does not have the metal. These undeliverable contracts are getting booted over into the London (and Hong Kong) OTC (over the counter) market for settlement. This is the EFP trade - (exchange for physical). We do not know what the terms of these settlements are as this market is contract by contract and is not public. EFP are supposed to be an emergency measure in the unusual situation where the contracts cannot be delivered on - this emergency is now every week and growing in the precious metals. The COMEX has small print where physical delivery can be refused and there is a cash settlement. This is not classed as a default but we all know this is a default. The EFP's are a method of defaulting and sweeping it under the carpet. That we have reached this point is known to those outside the US-centric paper market and it is known the game is approaching a close.

1 hour ago, STONE said:

Supply and demand is no longer the driving factor for price and has not been for some time.

Supply and demand is still the driving force except it is the supply and demand for futures contracts. Last year i tried to calculate the supply - demand price for metal. It turned out to be impossible b/c the price is not set in the physical market. The minute-by-minute price is the futures paper price. This can only carry on for as long as there is physical at something like the paper price. i expect the sellers in the EFP are having to shoulder substantial losses b/c they cannot get the physical at the paper price. We can assume they are being subsidised.

When Kinesis kicks off and assuming the currency aftermarket is strong, the demand for physical will be 100 tonnes per month. This will break the paper market and force a reset. If i were a Western central banker i would be amassing as much physical for myself as i could - before i went into hiding. Certainly central banks are calling in their gold. i see a reset this year and at the latest next.

@STONE yes one of the objectives, if not the main goal of those involved in Kinesis is to disrupt the paper market and allow true price discovery.

From my calculations the minting process at Kinesis is capable of drawing in 100's and quite quickly 1000's of tonnes of gold. It is capable of drawing in amounts of silver which will dwarf the amount JPM holds in silver. JPM does not sell a single ounce of physical.

Maguire said that when there was the proposed tie up of the ABX and BullionCoin last year he had two interested investors on his books and attempted to buy 250 tonnes of gold for them. This trade was refused. A buy like that would have rocked the market, so it was refused. He says they have devised a different technique this time round. i am not sure if this is public, so i won't say but he views this method as being unstoppable. i see the only way to stop it would be to halt all physical trading. Either way the price of gold would end up going a long way north.

Yes this is William Suckling Limited of Birmingham.

The year mark looks like a 1927 mark to me rather than 1902, which would fit with the maker.

1902

1927

i have mentioned for some months now the growing number of EFP's being booted over to the London market from COMEX. There will be a default and a price explosion. Like a bomb exploding it will be very sudden and to most of the world completely unexpected.

It is well worth the time to read this piece. It bringing into focus what is happening and what you will not hear from the controlled financial media. The paper market days are very limited.

https://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/8942/guest-post-explaining-exchanges-physical-efps-gijsbert-groenewegen

1 hour ago, Bumble said:

Price volatility will remain, simply because gold itself is volatile in price. Or if you prefer to think of it the other way round, fiat currencies are volatile against gold. Either way, if you are a merchant and want to accept K-coins as payment, you may have to buy some currency hedging to protect your revenue. Current Litecoin transaction fees average 14 cents USD per transaction, and do not scale up with the amount transacted, so they are pretty cheap. If Kinesis offers yield to its stockholders, minters and depositors based on transaction charges, I don't see how they will be able to keep the fees that cheap.

The other interesting facet of a new currency is that the Russians and Chinese might use it, either overtly or covertly. After the Russian 'invasion' of Ukraine, the USA imposed sanctions on Russia in the form of denying them access to the SWIFT system of international payments. An international crypto currency fully backed by gold might be just the thing that wealthy Russians and Chinese choose to use instead.

China wants out of the USD. She does not want to be dependent on routing business through Swift and New York. This is one of the reasons for the Petro-Yuan. Russia has had so many sanctions she has had to get along outside the USD system. It did not kill her, it made her stronger. The Belt and Road nations will be out of the dying USD fiat system. The world is moving on very fast. He who has the gold makes the rules - Russia and China have the gold. i suspect combined close on 70 000 tonnes of gold.

An asset backed digital currency can be divided down into very small units. The units are still backed by metal. You can buy a house with KC or a pack of chewing gum. It will be spendable on Kinesis Visa and Mastercard.

7 hours ago, Bumble said:

Some perspectives:

1. This venture is attempting to create an entirely new currency to compete with existing ones. This is so ambitious that governments and central banks are likely to try to put a stop to it. The corporation may be based in friendly jurisdictions, but if major governments outlaw its use, or even just regulate it so heavily that it becomes too irksome to use, customers in most countries will not use it. Financial regulators are already gearing up to regulate cryptos. The cryptocurrency space will not remain a wild west indefinitely. The case for banning cryptos will be the same as that for banning cash: it is used by criminals, drug dealers, money launderers, terrorists, etc. Not a good argument, of course, but it carries weight with the ignorant.

2. At a minimum, regulations will require proof of identification, proof of source of funds, anti-money laundering provisions, and FATCA style disclosure requirements. Switzerland, Singapore and Lichtenstein may be sovereign states but they are coming under huge pressure to comply with regulations like these. Some financial institutions have avoided trading in cryptos precisely because they couldn't prove source of funds.

3. Price volatility may become an issue, as it has for other cryptos. Speculators in gold and silver have simpler ways to expose themselves, including leveraged vehicles. Users who just want to transact worldwide at low cost can use Litecoin or the Bitcoin lightning network. Yes, they're not backed by anything but confidence, but most users are unlikely to care: they'll go where the fees are lowest.

4. Cryptos generally are not ready for mass adoption because they are too awkward to use for the non-tech-savvy. You have to install wallet software on your computer and smartphone and learn how to make safe copies of your keys to cold storage. You also have to worry a lot more about security. One piece of malware and all your crypto has gone and is never coming back. Smartphones are completely and utterly insecure. They are designed to share information and that is what they do. You should never put any data on a smartphone that you would not wish the whole world to know. John McAfee has been working on the design of a secure smartphone, but it is likely to retail at $1000 or more. Most people do not know how to secure their computers adequately. This might be less of a problem for Kinesis, if it is centrally managed, but there still remains the issue of user authentication. With my bank, I need my card and PIN to log in to online services, and I have several other channels for authenticating myself if I need to. Without two factor authentication with physical tokens I would be reluctant to trust a transactional money system.

5. Gold backing is nice, but if there is a systemic financial collapse, governments might decide to ban all private ownership of gold. Even if the gold is safely stored in Switzerland or Singapore, it doesn't help me if I can't get it, and I am forced to sell it to the central bank at some nominal price.

Kinesis is not actually a cryptocurrency. Yes both the KVT (Kinesis Velocity Token) - the 'shares' in Kinesis and the KC (Kinesis Currency) are on the blockchain, but the currency is not a cryptocurrency. The KC is a digital currency. A cryptocurrency has a limited issue. KC is only limited by the amount of gold and silver deposited in the ABX vaulting system.

Agreed Kinesis is not USD, ie bankster friendly. Those behind it are intent on breaking the paper precious metal market. Even without Kinesis this is going to happen. i have mentioned this several times elsewhere, the flow of EFP's (Exchange for Physical contracts) to London is off the scale now. This is unsettled COMEX contracts which are getting booted over into the invisible OTC (over the counter spot market). What they are being settled for is not known. That is between the parties. i saw a video today on Greg Hunter's YT channel where Bill Holter was saying the volume of EFP's this year so far already amounted to a year's silver mining production. This cannot have been settled b/c all that silver does not exist to settle the contracts. There will be a default.

So you can ban cryptocurrencies but KC is not a cryptocurrency. It is an asset backed digital currency. We are dealing in digital currencies everyday of the week expect these have Jack Sh1t behind them. This is not unbacked cryptocurrency. Forget BTC, LTC et al - the only similarly is it is blockchain. This is a digital asset backed currency. It is title of ownership over gold and silver. Price volatility will be the price volatility of the metals.

You must have all the cash to buy. This will a cash market. When leverage and margin comes in, this is when you get volatility. If you want to buy KC you have to have all the cash. If you want to mint KC you must have all the metal in the ABX system.

Users can just use BTC or LTC. Yes but they aren't. The reason it is not being used is they are not viable currencies b/c they are too volatile. i cannot sell in BTC when next week what i have is worth 30% less. This could bankrupt my business in large deals. If i sell for KC's i have gold. Whatever i have gold. This is so appealing to the mindset of large portions of the world.

i have traded every form of gold and silver. This will be no harder. It is simpler than some trades, thinking about it, it will be simpler than most. It is a way to buy and sell metal. There will be a wholesale and retail type of currency. i expect most of the volume to begin with to be on the wholesale trading side. Everything is digital anyway. You will have a trading wallet like you have a digital USD account.

The thing is this is 100% Sharia compliant and it is 100% backed. When you buy KC's you buy metal, not a promise of metal - you buy 1kg of gold in KC's you get a numbered bar.

Ban all ownership of gold? OK who on the silver forum is going to join the queue to hand their gold in? i don't expect to see any of you there. Why would someone be forced to sell to the central bank? You will sell the KC's - gold and silver sold, USD in your account. Done.

i have looked at this before - i have some PAMP bars myself.

Quote

. Where can I check certificate numbers for PAMP bullion products?

We do not provide this as a general service, however we may do so under exceptional circumstances. If you believe yours is such a case please contact us.

Not very helpful. i also had a go at finding the date of a vintage Silvertowne bar - no help from those people either. So much for these numbers.

To keep all the interviews together this is an audio interview i previously posted.

http://radio.goldseek.com/nuggets/coughlin.01.23.2018.mp3

And another interview

http://radio.goldseek.com/nuggets/kinesis.02.28.18.mp3

Well Kinesis is not exactly offshore as every company outside the UK is offshore, it happens to be registered in the IoM which does not tax profits generated outside the island. The sum effect will be the company will have a strong balance sheet and grow faster. Good for those who share in the income generation of the currency b/c the company behind it is a stronger entity.

How investors in the tokens (which should be seen as shares) deal with the monthly income stream is their own business. If you hold it as your legal entity in the UK then the pirates will demand you pay them. There is no argument about this. i have been battling with the pirates for years.

However if the tokens were held say by a Panamanian corporation then the income stream will be dealt with as income made outside Panama and so is tax free. Nothing to do with the EU, HMRC or anyone but the Panamanian government who are happy with the situation and it is a criminal offence to disclose confidential information (which is just about anything to do with corporations). The tokens are in the NAME of the corporation. If nominee directors, bearer shares and the corporation were inside a Panamanian Foundation, 'no-one' would know Jack Sh1t.

The issue is getting the money out but this is not a tax advice thread and i am not giving tax advice.

As Martlet says there is a lot of talk about clamp downs but it is just talk. It is to make ordinary people think it is too hard or too expensive or just too something else.

9 minutes ago, Martlet said:

The official HMRC line on crypto is that its taxed the same as any other assets.  So capital gains tax rules apply on profits made from holding cryptos, which is nice and simple.  There is a complication that the tax is calculated when you change from one asset to another, so if one sells Bitcoin for Ethereum that counts as a taxable event, not only trading Bitcoin to £.  HMRC doesn't care where the tax event occurred, so if its on an exchange in UK, Europe, US, Singapore, tax is the due if you are resident in the UK. 

Upshot of this is trades through a Isle of Man exchange are going to attract CGT if you are in the UK.  The method to avoid tax is for the assets to be owned through an offshore shell company, then tax is applied under that jurisdiction and you only pay tax to HMRC when bringing profit back onshore. 

(not professional tax advice of course, just view from research on the subject for months.)

Kinesis is an Isle of Man corporation. Profits made outside the IoM are tax free. The advantage for an investor in KVT's like me is that when profits are distributed there is more for investors.

A person holding KVT's could setup a corporation in a country which does not tax income coming from outside that country. They could make the KVT's an asset of the corporation. The KVT's no longer belong to them so the yield is then tax free.

Now the issue is getting the cash out of the corporation. If you are tax resident in the UK, then HMRC will want a cut of your dividends from the corporation. There are potential avenues to get use of capital, Emmerdale cast had their Jersey corporations make them loans but the easiest way is not to be tax resident in the UK. If you were tax resident in a country where income from outside that country is tax free, then you can pull off the cash out and keep it all. You can come visit the UK but make sure you do not fall foul of the tax resident rules. Someone looking to create a pension pot could do this and then leave the UK and become tax resident elsewhere where they keep all this treasure.

1 hour ago, Oldun said:

The moment you go to cash in or out of cryptos, you are open and have to produce paperwork/proof....that is for sure.

You don't have to do anything - only slaves have to do things. If the entity enacting the transaction is under UK jurisdiction perhaps but if it isn't......

You are free to arrange your business in ways that avoid pilfering by so called authorities. There is nothing to stop a person injecting KVT's into an offshore company in a jurisdiction that does not tax income gained outside that jurisdiction.

1 hour ago, Oldun said:

How does it get around government taxation ? Cryptos wont get past that in my lifetime that’s for sure.

Well the Kinesis company is registered in the Isle of Man so profit made outside the IoM is tax free.  So the profits held within the company are tax free. i am not sure how HMRC views cryptos. There are ways, legal ways which just take a little effort and knowledge by which investors can keeping thieving hands of. It depends if someone are creative and mobile. Not suitable for all. As i say if you want to hand your treasure to the pirates they will take it. i keep mine for myself.

3 hours ago, Roy said:

I bet he was bullied at school 

That's Americans for you. His name is Craig Hemke but he is known as 'Turd Ferguson'. i must presume turd does not have the same meaning.

Another interview appears this time conducted by Turd Ferguson.

https://www.sgtreport.com/2018/03/2018-3-7-introducing-kinesis-a-possible-monetary-revolution/

i have felt for a long time that the only way to truly rectify the system is to destroy it - completely. Smash the trough that the swine feed at. Many will suffer but it will be better in the end. i prepare for this situation so as to get out ahead on the other side. What is needed means destroying the monetary system. That the stock market must be crashed, that the economy must be destroyed, that the Federal Reserve must be ended, that the USD must be obliterated. A trade war is in the plan - i suspect China - Russia and the US are cooperating in this trade war.

It was interesting to note that Q Anon posting on 4chan.org was asked to prove him/herself and get Trump to say 'tip-top, tippy-top' in a speech. i have never heard anyone say tippy-top. In the Easter speech Trump said 'tip-top and tippy-top'

Listen from about 50 seconds. I think if there is any doubt that Q Anon is not Trump himself or directly involved with Trump at the highest level it is settled now. Notice the White Rabbit in attendance. We are about to go down the rabbit hole.