Has Charles rogered sovereigns ?

[GoodAsGold]

The releases of the Jubilee series, the Memorial series and the Coronation series have hit collectors hard in our pockets as we all know. Likewise the cost of living crisis.  

I wasn’t too sure about stretching to a third quintuple purchase after the first 2 special releases. In the end, I decided to give the Coronation quintuple a miss, simply basing my decision on the fact that the Jubilee and Memorial special designs appear on the front of my slabs, whereas crowned Charles would only appear on the back.

The 2016 sov with the one-off effigy of the Queen suffered the same fate.

[SlowFrog]

2 hours ago, shawy2510 said:

High end old coins are the only things I see doing well at the moment. I recently graded a 1872 Sovereign & it came back a 66, sold it instantly for £5k. Could have got more but it was an in & out job 😆

I've rarely experienced a quick in and out job with that kind of satisfaction.

[Leonmarsh]

2 minutes ago, SlowFrog said:

I've rarely experienced a quick in and out job with that kind of satisfaction.

I have due to my sales recently 😞

[James32]

18 minutes ago, GoodAsGold said:

The releases of the Jubilee series, the Memorial series and the Coronation series have hit collectors hard in our pockets as we all know. Likewise the cost of living crisis.  

I wasn’t too sure about stretching to a third quintuple purchase after the first 2 special releases. In the end, I decided to give the Coronation quintuple a miss, simply basing my decision on the fact that the Jubilee and Memorial special designs appear on the front of my slabs, whereas crowned Charles would only appear on the back.

The 2016 sov with the one-off effigy of the Queen suffered the same fate.

You can have the sides reversed with NGC, someone recently had it done with the coronation set.

[Sovhead]

He’s rogered us all…. so outspoken on vaccines and the environment keep out of all that s…

Her Majesty kept out of all that.

[SiCole]

2 minutes ago, James32 said:

You can have the sides reversed with NGC, someone recently had it done with the coronation set.

Yeah saw that and think most of us missed a trick there.

With the 2016 commented below it does go for a bloody good premium if you watch the auctions etc so long term we should be ok.

[GoodAsGold]

1 minute ago, James32 said:

You can have the sides reversed with NGC, someone recently had it done with the coronation set.

Thank you for that James. I wish I’d known that before my 1989s were recently graded. I love the Tudor Rose reverse.

[AdamDutton]

1 hour ago, Leonmarsh said:

True but British only to be fair 

For instance the stunning 40 lire Napoleon 1814 Adam Dutton has still here at 750 it's probably a 900 quid coin all day on usual trading times 

Was thinking I’d get a quick profit on that coin as I didn’t want to sit on it 

[AdamDutton]

I’ve put under spot silver coin sets which are beautiful collectible pieces and I’m surprised no one buys them quicker. 

[GoodAsGold]

17 hours ago, GoodAsGold said:

The releases of the Jubilee series, the Memorial series and the Coronation series have hit collectors hard in our pockets as we all know. Likewise the cost of living crisis.  

I wasn’t too sure about stretching to a third quintuple purchase after the first 2 special releases. In the end, I decided to give the Coronation quintuple a miss, simply basing my decision on the fact that the Jubilee and Memorial special designs appear on the front of my slabs, whereas crowned Charles would only appear on the back.

The 2016 sov with the one-off effigy of the Queen suffered the same fate.

Having posted the above comments last night, I just wanted to clear something up. Some people may have read my original post and then wondered why I’ve just bought a Jubilee off QuantumStacker. My original Jubilee quintuple was the budget Matte version in a PF70 first release label. I’ve just upgraded to the proof PF70 quintuple courtesy of QuantumStacker. My original Memorial quintuple was a raw Matte, which I upgraded several months ago by buying one of ST1986’s PF70 first releases. 

So basically I’d started on the big coin bottom steps with the matte versions and I’ve just clawed my way upwards. I’ll stick with my decision to steer clear of the Coronation versions though. Not the greatest decisions to avoid the costly proofs and initially just buy the cheaper mattes. I’ve shelled out a lot since by getting the proofs now anyway, so I think I’ve righted my initial 2 wrongs. Each to their own and their own budget at the time, but I’ve got a growing backlog of coins that I need to move on when the market conditions are better.

[refero]

Premise; i myself bought the Jubilee, Memorial and Coronation proof, along with the Sotd Coronation sovereign, and the 5 coins coronation set. I am a collector and i will not miss anything i like, as long as i can afford (and to be honest i reached my limit, like many others in the last couple years).

As a collector i buy with the clear intention not to re sell in a (near) future, nor i bother checking if a specific coin appreciates or doesn’t. Once is in the collection is in the collection.

But since the Memorial emission, and after all the comments i read here on the forum, i confess i started checking how these late sovereigns were performing on auctions, on dealers’ webistes etc etc etc.

Straight to the point; Memorial was just a wrong idea. It was something that was “forced” and screwed completely this delicate equilibrium; can you all imagine a world without the Memorial emission?

Jubilee 2022

Coronation 2023 (with all sets, Sotd etc)

St George 2024.

Easy.

Now squeeze Memorial into that, and voilà, disaster. And i honestly dont understand when i read comments like “it will perform in the future, just hold and see etc etc”. No it will not. Where is the problem in admitting it is a failure of a coin, and up to now it has just been an economic loss? We cant predict future, but we can analyze past and present. The market is SATURATED by this coin. (i also dont personally like the adjusted version of the Coats of Army, but thats another story)

First big problem; there are thousands of PF70s. And thousands more will come as people will keep sending them to NGC or PCGS. Total population (considering also sets) is around 20k. Ok RM QC issues, but we are still talking about thousands and thousands of PF70 coins. What creates price is scarcity, and the Memorial will never be a scarce coin to find in highest grade (as well as Jubilee and Coronation for sure but, as said, its been the memorial that created this coin jam…)

Second big problem; people are just getting mad with this slab mania. Certification is not really something profitable (i mean, it is profitable indeed for those who make the slab) when applied to modern coins. One thing is (just to give an idea) having a Ms64 18whatever year sovereign. Another thing is holding a PF70 2020 or 2022 sovereign with other thousand people. On this forum, as in other fora i visit, people buy a coin and send it to slab even before receiving it! Or they receive it and check every single millimeter to find the smallest imperfection and then claim a substitution…. The collector in me cries…what about enjoying the coin first??

Too many coins, too many top pop slabs. How can you honestly think prices stay up?

[James32]

10 minutes ago, refero said:

Premise; i myself bought the Jubilee, Memorial and Coronation proof, along with the Sotd Coronation sovereign, and the 5 coins coronation set. I am a collector and i will not miss anything i like, as long as i can afford (and to be honest i reached my limit, like many others in the last couple years).

As a collector i buy with the clear intention not to re sell in a (near) future, nor i bother checking if a specific coin appreciates or doesn’t. Once is in the collection is in the collection.

But since the Memorial emission, and after all the comments i read here on the forum, i confess i started checking how these late sovereigns were performing on auctions, on dealers’ webistes etc etc etc.

Straight to the point; Memorial was just a wrong idea. It was something that was “forced” and screwed completely this delicate equilibrium; can you all imagine a world without the Memorial emission?

Jubilee 2022

Coronation 2023 (with all sets, Sotd etc)

St George 2024.

Easy.

Now squeeze Memorial into that, and voilà, disaster. And i honestly dont understand when i read comments like “it will perform in the future, just hold and see etc etc”. No it will not. Where is the problem in admitting it is a failure of a coin, and up to now it has just been an economic loss? We cant predict future, but we can analyze past and present. The market is SATURATED by this coin. (i also dont personally like the adjusted version of the Coats of Army, but thats another story)

First big problem; there are thousands of PF70s. And thousands more will come as people will keep sending them to NGC or PCGS. Total population (considering also sets) is around 20k. Ok RM QC issues, but we are still talking about thousands and thousands of PF70 coins. What creates price is scarcity, and the Memorial will never be a scarce coin to find in highest grade (as well as Jubilee and Coronation for sure but, as said, its been the memorial that created this coin jam…)

Second big problem; people are just getting mad with this slab mania. Certification is not really something profitable (i mean, it is profitable indeed for those who make the slab) when applied to modern coins. One thing is (just to give an idea) having a Ms64 18whatever year sovereign. Another thing is holding a PF70 2020 or 2022 sovereign with other thousand people. On this forum, as in other fora i visit, people buy a coin and send it to slab even before receiving it! Or they receive it and check every single millimeter to find the smallest imperfection and then claim a substitution…. The collector in me cries…what about enjoying the coin first??

Too many coins, too many top pop slabs. How can you honestly think prices stay up?

Well f**** me, mine are now in the bin.

[SiCole]

45 minutes ago, James32 said:

Well f**** me, mine are now in the bin.

Thanks Refero, kids crying now!

In fairness it has everything going for it and with a few years of no silly special years it should do fine. In four years time no-one will care it saturated the market etc Its mad how quickly time flys and peoples opinions change.

[Darr3nG]

1 hour ago, James32 said:

Well f**** me, mine are now in the bin.

39 minutes ago, SiCole said:

Thanks Refero, kids crying now!

Thanks Refero, with James throwing all his in the bin, there are only a few PF70s remaining! Result!

[BOOLIAN]

2 hours ago, refero said:

Premise; i myself bought the Jubilee, Memorial and Coronation proof, along with the Sotd Coronation sovereign, and the 5 coins coronation set. I am a collector and i will not miss anything i like, as long as i can afford (and to be honest i reached my limit, like many others in the last couple years).

As a collector i buy with the clear intention not to re sell in a (near) future, nor i bother checking if a specific coin appreciates or doesn’t. Once is in the collection is in the collection.

But since the Memorial emission, and after all the comments i read here on the forum, i confess i started checking how these late sovereigns were performing on auctions, on dealers’ webistes etc etc etc.

Straight to the point; Memorial was just a wrong idea. It was something that was “forced” and screwed completely this delicate equilibrium; can you all imagine a world without the Memorial emission?

Jubilee 2022

Coronation 2023 (with all sets, Sotd etc)

St George 2024.

Easy.

Now squeeze Memorial into that, and voilà, disaster. And i honestly dont understand when i read comments like “it will perform in the future, just hold and see etc etc”. No it will not. Where is the problem in admitting it is a failure of a coin, and up to now it has just been an economic loss? We cant predict future, but we can analyze past and present. The market is SATURATED by this coin. (i also dont personally like the adjusted version of the Coats of Army, but thats another story)

First big problem; there are thousands of PF70s. And thousands more will come as people will keep sending them to NGC or PCGS. Total population (considering also sets) is around 20k. Ok RM QC issues, but we are still talking about thousands and thousands of PF70 coins. What creates price is scarcity, and the Memorial will never be a scarce coin to find in highest grade (as well as Jubilee and Coronation for sure but, as said, its been the memorial that created this coin jam…)

Second big problem; people are just getting mad with this slab mania. Certification is not really something profitable (i mean, it is profitable indeed for those who make the slab) when applied to modern coins. One thing is (just to give an idea) having a Ms64 18whatever year sovereign. Another thing is holding a PF70 2020 or 2022 sovereign with other thousand people. On this forum, as in other fora i visit, people buy a coin and send it to slab even before receiving it! Or they receive it and check every single millimeter to find the smallest imperfection and then claim a substitution…. The collector in me cries…what about enjoying the coin first??

Too many coins, too many top pop slabs. How can you honestly think prices stay up?

I strongly agree with @SiCole. I think it depends a fair amount on what TRM does over the next few years. Hopefully, there won't be many out-of-schedule events for them to target with 'special' releases. The main issue at the moment is that people have run out of funds and interest. There isn't really any evidence that these won't be restored with time as things level out and we return to a more predictable schedule. In my view, these releases represent a significant event in British history and they present a really good opportunity for us all to ask ourselves what we want from our collection going forward.

Edited September 13, 2023 by BOOLIAN

[SlowFrog]

2 hours ago, James32 said:

Well f**** me, mine are now in the bin.

You've been going for PF70s when what you needed to be doing was finding low mintage, ugly coins that no one wants, with a #1 coa! I've got a 1oz banger I can flog you for £5k if interested? Sound investment, I tell ya!

[TheShinyStuff]

I totally agree that RM have saturated the market, but to be fair they are only responding to demand, I'm not an apologist for the RM, far from it, but they will mint as much as they can shift, for as long as they can shift it. The fact is, as has been pointed out many times, that this has been a remarkable period in history, with opportunity a-plenty for the RM to fire up the presses!

As for the Memorial sovereign, I like it. I think, along with the Jubilee and Coronation it can be considered part of a mini series of sovereigns marking a change of Monarch.

On a personal level I think the Memorial sovereign is probably the  prettiest of all the special reverses, and for that reason the future will be kind to it. But who knows.

[Bruce06]

8 hours ago, refero said:

Premise; i myself bought the Jubilee, Memorial and Coronation proof, along with the Sotd Coronation sovereign, and the 5 coins coronation set. I am a collector and i will not miss anything i like, as long as i can afford (and to be honest i reached my limit, like many others in the last couple years).

As a collector i buy with the clear intention not to re sell in a (near) future, nor i bother checking if a specific coin appreciates or doesn’t. Once is in the collection is in the collection.

But since the Memorial emission, and after all the comments i read here on the forum, i confess i started checking how these late sovereigns were performing on auctions, on dealers’ webistes etc etc etc.

Straight to the point; Memorial was just a wrong idea. It was something that was “forced” and screwed completely this delicate equilibrium; can you all imagine a world without the Memorial emission?

Jubilee 2022

Coronation 2023 (with all sets, Sotd etc)

St George 2024.

Easy.

Now squeeze Memorial into that, and voilà, disaster. And i honestly dont understand when i read comments like “it will perform in the future, just hold and see etc etc”. No it will not. Where is the problem in admitting it is a failure of a coin, and up to now it has just been an economic loss? We cant predict future, but we can analyze past and present. The market is SATURATED by this coin. (i also dont personally like the adjusted version of the Coats of Army, but thats another story)

First big problem; there are thousands of PF70s. And thousands more will come as people will keep sending them to NGC or PCGS. Total population (considering also sets) is around 20k. Ok RM QC issues, but we are still talking about thousands and thousands of PF70 coins. What creates price is scarcity, and the Memorial will never be a scarce coin to find in highest grade (as well as Jubilee and Coronation for sure but, as said, its been the memorial that created this coin jam…)

Second big problem; people are just getting mad with this slab mania. Certification is not really something profitable (i mean, it is profitable indeed for those who make the slab) when applied to modern coins. One thing is (just to give an idea) having a Ms64 18whatever year sovereign. Another thing is holding a PF70 2020 or 2022 sovereign with other thousand people. On this forum, as in other fora i visit, people buy a coin and send it to slab even before receiving it! Or they receive it and check every single millimeter to find the smallest imperfection and then claim a substitution…. The collector in me cries…what about enjoying the coin first??

Too many coins, too many top pop slabs. How can you honestly think prices stay up?

Totally agree especially those reasons related to the number of launch in past few years and PF70 coins.   I have no plan to sell in near future, and hope can pass to next generation to have a small sum of profits.  Also, i skip the purchase of Coronation sovereign at launch, as I don't think the increase in price is reasonable, which was already very high before the adjustment.  

[SidS]

Anyone tempted to buy a memorial sovereign and use it as a pocket piece for approx 20 years and then submit it for grading? See if it could grade F, then sell it on eBay as rare? It'd be the only one in the population, so automatically rarer than the PF70s. There'd be some satisfaction in owning the worst graded memorial sovereign as well.

[refero]

12 hours ago, TheShinyStuff said:

As for the Memorial sovereign, I like it. I think, along with the Jubilee and Coronation it can be considered part of a mini series of sovereigns marking a change of Monarch.

Jubilee = historical event? yes

Coronation = historical event? yes

Memorial = ? .... it is a non event, invented just to drain collectors and stackers. 

I hope like you all, that following years will mark a permanent return to the classic St George and dragon; the issue related to the (non) scarcity (for not saying the flood) of high grade memorials will persist tho.

[TheShinyStuff]

24 minutes ago, refero said:

Memorial = ? .... it is a non event, invented just to drain collectors and stackers. 

Totally agree, it's an utterly contrived notion. However it is a sovereign, and a pretty one at that, and there will never be a shortage of them.

More importantly though, like it or not, it is the first KC3 sovereign, and for that alone it is a significant coin.

They won't make anyone rich, but bought at the right price they will do OK I think.

[refero]

1 hour ago, TheShinyStuff said:

More importantly though, like it or not, it is the first KC3 sovereign

with RM there is always a FIRST to celebrate...

first KCIII...

first crowned KCIII

first St george crowned KCIII

first St George non crowned KCIII etc etc..

[SidS]

Good job the monarchy is an instant succession otherwise we would have had a 'Sede Vacante' issue as well.

[TheShinyStuff]

15 minutes ago, refero said:

with RM there is always a FIRST to celebrate...

first KCIII...

first crowned KCIII

first St george crowned KCIII

first St George non crowned KCIII etc etc..

True. But the memorial is the actual first sovereign with Charlie!

11 minutes ago, SidS said:

Good job the monarchy is an instant succession otherwise we would have had a 'Sede Vacante' issue as well.

I believe that was for the 'mint marque' guys only!

[GoodAsGold]

10 hours ago, TheShinyStuff said:

More importantly though, like it or not, it is the first KC3 sovereign, and for that alone it is a significant coin.

Very good point. It makes me feel better for calling it quits after the Jubilee and Memorial purchases. I can happily live without the Charles crowned version now.