which coins are easier to sell?

[n1k0s]

Hello to everyone, 

I've started my stacking journey about 18 months ago. 

What i discovered is that it is easier to buy but a lot harder to sell. 

So now i want to focus on coins that can be sold easily and without loss. My long term objective is to stack about 1kg of gold for each of my sons but I don't want them to have to struggle to sell if they have to.

Drawing from the TSF's collective experience: which coins have you personally found easy to sell? 

- Sovereigns

- Britannias

- Gold eagles or Buffalos

- American pre-33 (indian, liberty, saint gaudens)

- Maples

I'd also like to know

- does this depends on the country, so if you could mention your country that would be great. 

- does it depend on market trends, i.e. some time periods are harder for sellers than others. 

Many thanks for your replies

[daca]

fractional coins that are fairly priced 

[Orpster]

Whatever the sovereign coin is where you live, so in the UK where I am it would be Sovereigns and Britannia's, guess it would be gold francs in Belgium

[Minted]

If you're just selling to a dealer for around spot price then it shouldn't matter.

If selling privately, I find 1oz silver and 1/10th gold sells easiest, presumably down to affordability.  Anything with a great design & quality should sell easily - Perth mint & China Panda's for example. 

Pop culture can sell well but maybe not by the time your sons inherit them so best to stick to animals instead.

[n1k0s]

1 minute ago, Orpster said:

Whatever the sovereign coin is where you live, so in the UK where I am it would be Sovereigns and Britannia's, guess it would be gold francs in Belgium

In belgium I've seen that the UK sovereigns are much more liquid than the local gold francs. In online second-hand markets of ebay-style I find more sovereigns and pre-33s than other coins. 

My conclusion is that UK sovereigns are probably the safest bet, if you consider that you don't know who will inherit this eventually and when/where they decide to sell.

[Fenlander1]

Uk here here.

Number 1 has to be the sovereign but if easy sell worldwide then krugerrand must be second on the gold.

Silver without a doubt 1oz britannia's imho.

[Coverte]

10 minutes ago, Fenlander1 said:

Uk here here.

Number 1 has to be the sovereign but if easy sell worldwide then krugerrand must be second on the gold.

Silver without a doubt 1oz britannia's imho.

I agree with this, I believe the Krugs are the highest selling # of coins in the world, but with such a long history and heritage, sovs must be # 2.

Agree also not a bad idea to have some silver also though, then if a family member gets in a small financial muddle, they can sell a few Brits or my # 2 for silver liquidity in EU mainland would be Philharmonics.

[ant1882]

Easiest sell for me are sovereigns to bullion dealers, decent price for the convenience and speed of transaction.

Other coins I would sell on here to get a better price.

[Darr3nG]

Sovereigns every day of the week and twice on Sunday's!

With silver, depending on the price, eagles, libertads and dragon bars rarely last long on the forum, but often command a higher premium because of this. Other bullion (brits, maples, philies) are more common and need to be priced to reflect.

[bluemoon]

Why would anyone want to sell to bullion dealers and get short changed by them, when you can sell privately on forums like this for a fair price?

[ant1882]

16 minutes ago, bluemoon said:

Why would anyone want to sell to bullion dealers and get short changed by them, when you can sell privately on forums like this for a fair price?

Well that depends, earlier this year I sold some sovereigns to a bullion dealer at an average 14% profit. 

The price available on here at the time was similar, so I went with the quicker, easier option. 

Another time the dealer wasn't offering me a good price on a 1/4 Brit so sold on here instead, it's good to have options.

[MBTPSilver]

20 minutes ago, bluemoon said:

Why would anyone want to sell to bullion dealers and get short changed by them, when you can sell privately on forums like this for a fair price?

If you're selling lots it can be much more convenient to sell to a dealer, particularly if you live close enough to drop the coins/bars off in person to them. Saves you any hassle/worry on payment with a private individual as well.

[Paul]

If you just want a stack and forget strategy just buy full sovereigns. As already suggested 

Remember to include exact instructions with your partner or with your will ' where to sell to ' where they'll get the best price and not be diddled on price like Atkinsons, Chards, HGM, Sharps pixley, ATS, Baird & co

[bluemoon]

5 hours ago, ant1882 said:

Well that depends, earlier this year I sold some sovereigns to a bullion dealer at an average 14% profit. 

The price available on here at the time was similar, so I went with the quicker, easier option. 

Another time the dealer wasn't offering me a good price on a 1/4 Brit so sold on here instead, it's good to have options.

14% over spot or 14% after price increase? I don't think dealers would buy over spot but Buy/Sells on this forum tend to be over spot whether buying or selling, unless I've missed some clangers.

[ant1882]

17 minutes ago, bluemoon said:

14% over spot or 14% after price increase? I don't think dealers would buy over spot but Buy/Sells on this forum tend to be over spot whether buying or selling, unless I've missed some clangers.

Purely due to price increase, price given was just over spot.

[ant1882]

Looks like Chards pay 1% over spot for sovereigns.

[dicker]

Sovs and Brits are the most liquid.

Sovs are in my experiences the most liquid overall and sell very well on TSF

[GoldDiggerDave]

[Agaupl]

I’m going to go against the group here and say something different..

only joking sovereign sovereign sovereign. 🤣
 

but absolutely it does depend on where you live in the world 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Agaupl

[Silverlocks]

20 hours ago, n1k0s said:

Hello to everyone, 

I've started my stacking journey about 18 months ago. 

What i discovered is that it is easier to buy but a lot harder to sell. 

So now i want to focus on coins that can be sold easily and without loss. My long term objective is to stack about 1kg of gold for each of my sons but I don't want them to have to struggle to sell if they have to.

Drawing from the TSF's collective experience: which coins have you personally found easy to sell? 

[ . . . ]

In order to sell gold coins you will have to put some effort into establishing a track record as a seller in the channels on the secondary market.  In practice, this means here on TSF and various Facebook groups.  This will take some time and doing physical trades to build up a reputation.  It's better to start early and do some horse trading rather than having to establish a presence at the last minute when you suddenly need to flog gold to raise money.

Sovereigns and half sovereigns are by far the easiest to shift in the UK, but that may or may not be the case in Belgium.  However, I think they're pretty liquid worldwide - at least in any jurisdiction where they don't attract VAT.  The CGT exemption for sovereigns is due to a peculiarity of UK law that means sovereigns are still technically legal tender.  In Belgium, I'm not sure whether there is any similar legislation exempting coins from CGT; you would have to check this.

1oz coins such as Brits, Philharmonics or Maples can often be purchased at fairly low premiums in the 3-4% range, but it does pay to shop around.  However, the high spot price of gold puts them outside the price range of a lot of buyers.  While you can buy some, it's better to do the heavy lifting in your stack with fractional gold.  I think the situation will only get worse in this regard unless some event tanks the price of gold.

However, old circulated coinage is often a good way to buy low premium fractional gold.  As the spot price goes up, low premium 1oz coins or bars are getting more inaccessible to people, so they are significantly less liquid than smaller coins.  Coins in the 1/4oz range or less are still the most liquid.  Apart from sovereigns, there are a wide variety of European coins such as Latin Monetary Union[1] 10 and 20 franc coins.  Some of these, such as French Roosters, had very large mintages and so can be purchased with very low premiums.  A 20 franc coin is a little smaller than a sovereign (about 80% of the gold weight), and might also be a good choice.  There are some other coins such as 5 or 10 guilder coins, 5 or 10 mark coins, 5 or 15 rouble coins, ducats from various nations that are still common enough to be purchased with relatively modest premiums.  Old U.S. circulated coinage is popular there, but not so common in Europe so it goes for a bit higher premium.

One caveat with old coinage is that you do have to do your homework about the numismatics of the coins, and get at least a basic understanding of grading.  With sovereigns, in particular, there are a lot of folks selling premium ones (shields being the poster child for this) at somewhat inflated prices.  Some of those on sale are in poor condition and may not be worth the price.  Shields aren't rare per se (all sovs between 1821-1871 and a large fraction between 1872-1887 were shields), but shields in good condition are not so common.  Similar conditions apply to all circulated gold coinage, so you do want to be able to assess the grade of anything you're buying.  British and American coins are well documented in this regard, European coins less so.  Having said this, knowing the low premium, large mintage European coins and sticking to low premium items is likely an effective strategy for stacking European gold coins.

It's also worth noting that non-fine gold (i.e. alloyed circulated coins) does not qualify as investment gold in some jurisdictions (NZ, Australia and some Asian countries, for example).  This shouldn't be a problem in Europe, but it is something worth doing your homework about.

Modern fractional bullion coins and bars tend to go for significantly higher premiums, and if you buy them from a dealer they can have quite a significant spread over what you can realistically sell on the secondary market for.  However, it's hard to say to what extent this matters for long-term holding, so 1/4oz bullion coins are certainly a possibility if you can get them at a decent price.  1/2oz coins (and double sovereigns) tend to fall into a bit of a no man's land.  They're not often available with low premiums from dealers in the way that 1oz coins are, and they're expensive enough to be a bit illiquid unless you sell them cheap.  They can be worth buying, I think, if you can get them at a decent price, but it's probably not worth paying more than about 5% over spot for them.  

For a long term hold, the price rise over time may gloss over the spreads you pay on coins to some extent, so this is perhaps less of an issue for a pure long-term hold plan.

 

1 - without going into the history of the Latin Monetary Union (LMU), quite a few nations minted coins to the LMU specification and some had very large mintages (French coins, in particular) or were produced in numbers as restrikes later (e.g. Swiss Vrenellis).  These can be some of the lowest premium fractional gold and can be a good option for stacking.  Some are less common and command a higher premium as collectibles.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Silverlocks

[n1k0s]

54 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

In order to sell gold coins you will have to put some effort into establishing a track record as a seller in the channels on the secondary market.  In practice, this means here on TSF and various Facebook groups.  This will take some time and doing physical trades to build up a reputation.  It's better to start early and do some horse trading rather than having to establish a presence at the last minute when you suddenly need to flog gold to raise money.

Sovereigns and half sovereigns are by far the easiest to shift in the UK, but that may or may not be the case in Belgium.  However, I think they're pretty liquid worldwide - at least in any jurisdiction where they don't attract VAT.  The CGT exemption for sovereigns is due to a peculiarity of UK law that means sovereigns are still technically legal tender.  In Belgium, I'm not sure whether there is any similar legislation exempting coins from CGT; you would have to check this.

1oz coins such as Brits, Philharmonics or Maples can often be purchased at fairly low premiums in the 3-4% range, but it does pay to shop around.  However, the high spot price of gold puts them outside the price range of a lot of buyers.  While you can buy some, it's better to do the heavy lifting in your stack with fractional gold.  I think the situation will only get worse in this regard unless some event tanks the price of gold.

However, old circulated coinage is often a good way to buy low premium fractional gold.  As the spot price goes up, low premium 1oz coins or bars are getting more inaccessible to people, so they are significantly less liquid than smaller coins.  Coins in the 1/4oz range or less are still the most liquid.  Apart from sovereigns, there are a wide variety of European coins such as Latin Monetary Union[1] 10 and 20 franc coins.  Some of these, such as French Roosters, had very large mintages and so can be purchased with very low premiums.  A 20 franc coin is a little smaller than a sovereign (about 80% of the gold weight), and might also be a good choice.  There are some other coins such as 5 or 10 guilder coins, 5 or 10 mark coins, 5 or 15 rouble coins, ducats from various nations that are still common enough to be purchased with relatively modest premiums.  Old U.S. circulated coinage is popular there, but not so common in Europe so it goes for a bit higher premium.

One caveat with old coinage is that you do have to do your homework about the numismatics of the coins, and get at least a basic understanding of grading.  With sovereigns, in particular, there are a lot of folks selling premium ones (shields being the poster child for this) at somewhat inflated prices.  Some of those on sale are in poor condition and may not be worth the price.  Shields aren't rare per se (all sovs between 1821-1871 and a large fraction between 1872-1887 were shields), but shields in good condition are not so common.  Similar conditions apply to all circulated gold coinage, so you do want to be able to assess the grade of anything you're buying.  British and American coins are well documented in this regard, European coins less so.  Having said this, knowing the low premium, large mintage European coins and sticking to low premium items is likely an effective strategy for stacking European gold coins.

It's also worth noting that non-fine gold (i.e. alloyed circulated coins) does not qualify as investment gold in some jurisdictions (NZ, Australia and some Asian countries, for example).  This shouldn't be a problem in Europe, but it is something worth doing your homework about.

Modern fractional bullion coins and bars tend to go for significantly higher premiums, and if you buy them from a dealer they can have quite a significant spread over what you can realistically sell on the secondary market for.  However, it's hard to say to what extent this matters for long-term holding, so 1/4oz bullion coins are certainly a possibility if you can get them at a decent price.  1/2oz coins (and double sovereigns) tend to fall into a bit of a no man's land.  They're not often available with low premiums from dealers in the way that 1oz coins are, and they're expensive enough to be a bit illiquid unless you sell them cheap.  They can be worth buying, I think, if you can get them at a decent price, but it's probably not worth paying more than about 5% over spot for them.  

For a long term hold, the price rise over time may gloss over the spreads you pay on coins to some extent, so this is perhaps less of an issue for a pure long-term hold plan.

 

1 - without going into the history of the Latin Monetary Union (LMU), quite a few nations minted coins to the LMU specification and some had very large mintages (French coins, in particular) or were produced in numbers as restrikes later (e.g. Swiss Vrenellis).  These can be some of the lowest premium fractional gold and can be a good option for stacking.  Some are less common and command a higher premium as collectibles.

thank you for the taking the effort to write this out so comprehensively 

[Silverlocks]

26 minutes ago, n1k0s said:

thank you for the taking the effort to write this out so comprehensively 

I don't really know what the peer to peer sales market in Europe looks like.  There is some European traffic on TSF but nowhere near as much as the UK sales.  You may want to do your homework in this regard.

[Coverte]

3 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

In order to sell gold coins you will have to put some effort into establishing a track record as a seller in the channels on the secondary market.  In practice, this means here on TSF and various Facebook groups.  This will take some time and doing physical trades to build up a reputation.  It's better to start early and do some horse trading rather than having to establish a presence at the last minute when you suddenly need to flog gold to raise money.

Sovereigns and half sovereigns are by far the easiest to shift in the UK, but that may or may not be the case in Belgium.  However, I think they're pretty liquid worldwide - at least in any jurisdiction where they don't attract VAT.  The CGT exemption for sovereigns is due to a peculiarity of UK law that means sovereigns are still technically legal tender.  In Belgium, I'm not sure whether there is any similar legislation exempting coins from CGT; you would have to check this.

1oz coins such as Brits, Philharmonics or Maples can often be purchased at fairly low premiums in the 3-4% range, but it does pay to shop around.  However, the high spot price of gold puts them outside the price range of a lot of buyers.  While you can buy some, it's better to do the heavy lifting in your stack with fractional gold.  I think the situation will only get worse in this regard unless some event tanks the price of gold.

However, old circulated coinage is often a good way to buy low premium fractional gold.  As the spot price goes up, low premium 1oz coins or bars are getting more inaccessible to people, so they are significantly less liquid than smaller coins.  Coins in the 1/4oz range or less are still the most liquid.  Apart from sovereigns, there are a wide variety of European coins such as Latin Monetary Union[1] 10 and 20 franc coins.  Some of these, such as French Roosters, had very large mintages and so can be purchased with very low premiums.  A 20 franc coin is a little smaller than a sovereign (about 80% of the gold weight), and might also be a good choice.  There are some other coins such as 5 or 10 guilder coins, 5 or 10 mark coins, 5 or 15 rouble coins, ducats from various nations that are still common enough to be purchased with relatively modest premiums.  Old U.S. circulated coinage is popular there, but not so common in Europe so it goes for a bit higher premium.

One caveat with old coinage is that you do have to do your homework about the numismatics of the coins, and get at least a basic understanding of grading.  With sovereigns, in particular, there are a lot of folks selling premium ones (shields being the poster child for this) at somewhat inflated prices.  Some of those on sale are in poor condition and may not be worth the price.  Shields aren't rare per se (all sovs between 1821-1871 and a large fraction between 1872-1887 were shields), but shields in good condition are not so common.  Similar conditions apply to all circulated gold coinage, so you do want to be able to assess the grade of anything you're buying.  British and American coins are well documented in this regard, European coins less so.  Having said this, knowing the low premium, large mintage European coins and sticking to low premium items is likely an effective strategy for stacking European gold coins.

It's also worth noting that non-fine gold (i.e. alloyed circulated coins) does not qualify as investment gold in some jurisdictions (NZ, Australia and some Asian countries, for example).  This shouldn't be a problem in Europe, but it is something worth doing your homework about.

Modern fractional bullion coins and bars tend to go for significantly higher premiums, and if you buy them from a dealer they can have quite a significant spread over what you can realistically sell on the secondary market for.  However, it's hard to say to what extent this matters for long-term holding, so 1/4oz bullion coins are certainly a possibility if you can get them at a decent price.  1/2oz coins (and double sovereigns) tend to fall into a bit of a no man's land.  They're not often available with low premiums from dealers in the way that 1oz coins are, and they're expensive enough to be a bit illiquid unless you sell them cheap.  They can be worth buying, I think, if you can get them at a decent price, but it's probably not worth paying more than about 5% over spot for them.  

For a long term hold, the price rise over time may gloss over the spreads you pay on coins to some extent, so this is perhaps less of an issue for a pure long-term hold plan.

 

1 - without going into the history of the Latin Monetary Union (LMU), quite a few nations minted coins to the LMU specification and some had very large mintages (French coins, in particular) or were produced in numbers as restrikes later (e.g. Swiss Vrenellis).  These can be some of the lowest premium fractional gold and can be a good option for stacking.  Some are less common and command a higher premium as collectibles.

Excellent summary, don't know how you find the time, but OP should be very grateful you did!!

[Silverlocks]

12 minutes ago, Coverte said:

Excellent summary, don't know how you find the time, but OP should be very grateful you did!!

I can write quickly - it doesn't take long to write something like that, maybe a little longer if you have to go back and edit it.

This is a bunch of spec documents I've written at one point or another.