If you own perth mint gold bars Id get them XRF tested ASAP - especially if you live in China

[HerefordBullyun]

Oh dear...

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/perth-mint-sold-billions-doped-gold-china-tried-cover-it-report 

Edited March 8, 2023 by HerefordBullyun

[daca]

 

[dicker]

Just an FYI In the Perth Mint they have a room on the left as you go through the main doors if you are buying / selling bullion.  

I have bought a few cast bars there over the years and they have an XRF machine that they check all gold they buying with.

I always ask them to XRF the cast bars I buy even though they are new from the PM and they gave me some nice print outs.  Just something that is useful if you are buying at the PM.

Best

Dicker

[MetalMandible]

Without clicking your link, what I remember when I first heard about this, China took issue with the secondary metals present in the gold, not the gold's actual purity.  If memory serves, the gold was indeed .9999 pure but the miniscule trace metals present contained more silver where copper was expected. 

There was more to the story regarding Perth's inital response to this, but as a regular customer I would not be concerned.  Go ahead and get your Perth mint gold tested if you really feel the need, but I believe the whole story is a bit overblown.

[JohnA1]

They make it appear as if the Perth Mint gambled its reputation for a few hundred thousand bucks. Really?

They were extremely careful with the dilution so that it went undetected for 3 years, too low to be fraud, but juuuuust enough to affect the eligibility of the bars for the Shangai Exchange.

Almost like they were ordered to throw a wrench in the Shangai Exchange's gears.

I'm seeing less fraud and more sabotage..

Edited March 8, 2023 by JohnA1
fix typo

[westminstrel]

From my understanding, the gold is 99.99% pure as per industry standards for regular bullion buyers like us.

The contention here is about what metal / element has been used for the X portion of the 99.99X and it is this portion that has apparently not met the standard that the Shanghai Exchange expected.

So regular buyers like us have no need to test gold if bought directly from the Perth Mint, as they have sold exactly the four 9s purity gold which they have advertised. It is the same purity as Royal Mint gold.

For that matter, none of us really know or care what is used for the X potion of Royal Mint’s 99.99X gold.

[James32]

54 minutes ago, westminstrel said:

From my understanding, the gold is 99.99% pure as per industry standards for regular bullion buyers like us.

The contention here is about what metal / element has been used for the X portion of the 99.99X and it is this portion that has apparently not met the standard that the Shanghai Exchange expected.

So regular buyers like us have no need to test gold if bought directly from the Perth Mint, as they have sold exactly the four 9s purity gold which they have advertised. It is the same purity as Royal Mint gold.

For that matter, none of us really know or care what is used for the X potion of Royal Mint’s 99.99X gold.

Here here.. as long as I get the 99.9% or greater, they can use cheese for the rest.

[Silverlocks]

4 hours ago, JohnA1 said:

They make it appear as if the Perth Mint gambled its reputation for a few hundred thousand bucks. Really?

They were extremely careful with the dilution so that it went undetected for 3 years, too low to be fraud, but juuuuust enough to affect the eligibility of the bars for the Shangai Exchange.

Almost like they were ordered to throw a wrench in the Shangai Exchange's gears.

I'm seeing less fraud and more sabotage..

100+ tons of perfectly viable good delivery bars that are just out of compliance with Chinese specifications so they can't be traded in Chinese markets - outstanding.

It's a conspiracy theory that I'd consider giving air time to - the Australian government is very much less than whelmed at Chinese interference in Australian domestic politics and trade, and Canberra views China as a significant medium-long term threat.  The Australian spook services have been banging on about this for years and you can see see the meme making inroads into Australian domestic politics.  Even New Zealand is coming under pressure to move away from dependence on China and smarten up their armed forces, which have famously been neglected for half a century or more.  Ganking Chinese attempts to control regional gold trade is kinda thinking outside the box but it's something I could see the Aussies doing, especially as they're big players in that racket themselves. 

As conspiracy theories go, this one is less tinfoil hat than many.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Silverlocks

[jultorsk]

1 minute ago, Silverlocks said:

Canberra views China as a significant medium-long term threat. 

They might have, but not necessarily anymore. There's a big difference between Liberal and Labor government ruling in Canberra. You may recall Victoria's Premier Dan Andrews (Labor) signing OBOR pact with China without the Morrison (Liberal) govt consent at Federal level. 🤷‍♂️ Not to mention Penelope Ying-Yen Wong currently sitting as Minister of Foreign Affairs.

 

[Happypanda88]

If this story is really a nothing burger and all the gold bars are 99.99 purity, then why would "In the same week as this crisis was unfolding behind closed doors at the Perth Mint, it was announced that Mr Hayes (then CEO) would be retiring early due to illness." 

IMHO, I think there is more information that hasn't been made public. So we have heard half-truths. Or lying by omission.

I suspect the SGE may has kept a tight lip to save face for not spotting the problem earlier. The real story may even ruin the reputation of the SGE and the Perth Mint. So the story has been downplayed for obvious reasons.

 

[Petra]

it’s a big deal for the two parties involved, however, nothing really for anyone else. It’s all about purity and standards with one party expecting different standards to everyone else and it would appear not checking correctly at the time.

[CollectForFun]

Adding the same link also here: https://www.marketscreener.com/news/latest/Shanghai-Gold-Exchange-denies-report-on-doped-gold-bars-from-Australia--43187466/

[Tamcddd]

Interesting. I mainly avoid bars, I’ll stick with my brits and sovs anyway 🤞 

[KleinerVogel]

On 08/03/2023 at 07:25, MetalMandible said:

Without clicking your link, what I remember when I first heard about this, China took issue with the secondary metals present in the gold, not the gold's actual purity.  If memory serves, the gold was indeed .9999 pure but the miniscule trace metals present contained more silver where copper was expected. 

There was more to the story regarding Perth's inital response to this, but as a regular customer I would not be concerned.  Go ahead and get your Perth mint gold tested if you really feel the need, but I believe the whole story is a bit overblown.

Exactly this, except instead of a bit overblown, I'd say very overblown.

 

The picture this article uses seems to suggest the bars are filled with tungsten or lead, which is very dishonest and to the casual viewer of the webpage would give you completely the wrong idea. It's only when you read the story you see it's more of a non issue and nothing as serious as the picture suggests. The thread title is a bit alarmist as well, if I may say so.

 

Just my 2p worth.

 

Cheers.

[MonkeysUncle]

Yeah, to me it's all a bit of a storm in a teacup. It's gold Jim, just not as we know it. Or rather not quite how the Chinese wanted it.

The burning question to my mind is why the heck didn't the Chinese test it sooner as I assume this lit has been delivered over a period of time.

Anyhow, if the Chinese are so upset about it they can give it me. I will be positively delighted about it! 😊

 

[Petra]

China just stirring it as China and Australia are going through a rough patch at the moment 😮🧐

[CollectForFun]

It seems some of you guys didn't read the article I linked upthread so quoting the main message from it for you:

Quote

The Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE) on Wednesday backed Perth Mint in denying that the Australian processor had sold it "doped" gold bars 

So SGE said there was no such problem. Of course, they may just be saying that to the public and work with the PM on solving the problem behind the closed doors anyway, but the whole story just does not make sense and I would be inclined to believe there's no problem with the bars - neither regarding .9999 gold content, nor the composition of the remaining .0001.

Morning edit: found these additional details on the matter:

Quote

The doping, also known as alloying, sought to maximise value the mint by reducing the purity of bullion from 99.996 per cent to 99.992 per cent 

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/western-australia/premier-breaks-silence-claims-he-had-no-knowledge-of-gold-doping-at-perth-mint/news-story/5353a909bad9fde795d7dd830517c2ed

So in fact, anybody purchasing .9999 gold from the Perth Mint gets .00002 to .00006 gold for free! 🙂

Edited March 10, 2023 by CollectForFun

[westminstrel]

This should help allay any fears collectors may have.

https://www.perthmint.com/news/media-announcements/corporate/response-to-abc-tv-allegations

[JohnA1]

So no need to short sell the kangaroos then?😄