How many forum members as percentage have been scammed by new sellers

[Fenlander1]

I think it all boils down to integrity and trust unfortunatly there appears to be alot less of it today than a few years ago, your word is your bond and trust is earned.

That puts us back on topic.

[James32]

12 minutes ago, Fenlander1 said:

Had a good discussion with my son the other day about this very subject.

He broke his watch and wanted a new one nothing special or pricey. We had the debate about the fake Chinese watches versus the high end genuine copies.

Whilst I don't like the idea of fake items we will never stop the ball rolling now.

My argument was if it keeps good time and you like the look of it does it matter if it is fake or does it only matter if you are trying to pass it off as genuine.

Unfortunatly forgers have been doing this for 1000s of years.

I think the problem lies with the scrotes who try to sell the items as genuine it doesn't matter whether it is chinese or Russian.

Crooks will always be crooks and whilst the law does nothing to stop the crimanals and people want a quick buck it will keep trundling along.

If someone offered me a kg of silver for £500 do I take it or advise them that is too cheap. My personal position would be to advise them of the correct price and i will buy the bar as long as it was genuine.

The price should be spot + whatever % I work on other wise I am no better than the scrotes.

 

Can you send me the info for the £500 kg please, for research purposes obviously 🙄 

[Fenlander1]

I will gladly give you the number of a man with lots of rm bars. But he will only sell to me because I am a nice guy. 🤣🤣

 

[James32]

1 minute ago, Fenlander1 said:

I will gladly give you the number of a man with lots of rm bars. But he will only sell to me because I am a nice guy. 🤣🤣

 

Trust nobody that lives on water...I've seen pirates of the Caribbean and the goonies 

[Fenlander1]

Just now, James32 said:

Trust nobody that lives on water...I've seen pirates of the Caribbean and the goonies 

I am from Norfolk buddy definatly the goonies.

[Spyder]

35 minutes ago, Fenlander1 said:

The price should be spot + whatever % I work on other wise I am no better than the scrotes.

 

When does someone become a scrote?

How many times do you see on shows like Dickinson Real Deal etc where they ask the person where they got the item that is offered, and with a smug look on their face answer, charity shop or bootsale. Now are they scrotes for short changing the seller. Dealers are always taking advantage of sellers who do not know what they are selling is worth. In this scenario, they are the same going by your example

[Relm]

All will be revealed in the bullion bugle .,...... And that's what we are worried about.

[James32]

2 minutes ago, Spyder said:

When does someone become a scrote?

How many times do you see on shows like Dickinson Real Deal etc where they ask the person where they got the item that is offered, and with a smug look on their face answer, charity shop or bootsale. Now are they scrotes for short changing the seller. Dealers are always taking advantage of sellers who do not know what they are selling is worth. In this scenario, they are the same going by your example

Excellent although very awkward question that has no easy answer. 

My shortest answer would be, a giving hand will always receive!

Hard at times,but we can't change ourselves due to the behaviour of others.

 

[Bigmarc]

5 minutes ago, Spyder said:

When does someone become a scrote?

How many times do you see on shows like Dickinson Real Deal etc where they ask the person where they got the item that is offered, and with a smug look on their face answer, charity shop or bootsale. Now are they scrotes for short changing the seller. Dealers are always taking advantage of sellers who do not know what they are selling is worth. In this scenario, they are the same going by your example

The is no spot price for antiques. It's a game where one man's junk is another man's treasure's and you have to find that other man to buy it from you. 

Gold and silver is a global market, same price all over the world but perhaps they should have a antiques etf.

[Fenlander1]

10 hours ago, Spyder said:

When does someone become a scrote?

How many times do you see on shows like Dickinson Real Deal etc where they ask the person where they got the item that is offered, and with a smug look on their face answer, charity shop or bootsale. Now are they scrotes for short changing the seller. Dealers are always taking advantage of sellers who do not know what they are selling is worth. In this scenario, they are the same going by your example

Good point pls allow me to retort.

1st of all dickensons real deal is telly. (NOT REAL)

An antiques dealer is dealing in the price someone is willing to pay not on a known figure that anyone can see. He has offered a price that he believes is fair unless he is a scrote.

You walk into the shop and believe you know the market for the said item better than he does you can have a little haggle and purchase the item. No issues you take the item because of your knowledge and contacts you have earned through trust you make a few quid.

Everyone is happy no scrotes involved.

Scenario 2

The seller asked you to buy the said item and you know its true value and offer the same price as the antiques dealer without being honest as to its true value then to me that would make you a scrote.

So now put yourself in the sellers position who would you trade with again.

Now put that into the pm world. I will give you a true example

Ebay

listed 5 silver coins for £125 and I place another listing 10 coins and I mistakenly list for the same price as 5 both buy it now.

Now the dilemma do notify the buyer of his mistake or hit buy it now. 

If you hit buy it now you expect the seller to honour their agreement other wise you will be leaving bad feedback. 

I would honour the deal its my mistake but whoever bought them off me would never deal with me again.

This takes us back to your original question of feedback.

Tsf is a trust based system I know that an established member not high feedback will be an honourable person and will pay me there word is there bond.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Fenlander1
Insomnia

[flyingveepixie]

8 hours ago, Fenlander1 said:

Had a good discussion with my son the other day about this very subject.

He broke his watch and wanted a new one nothing special or pricey. We had the debate about the fake Chinese watches versus the high end genuine copies.

Whilst I don't like the idea of fake items we will never stop the ball rolling now.

My argument was if it keeps good time and you like the look of it does it matter if it is fake or does it only matter if you are trying to pass it off as genuine.

Unfortunatly forgers have been doing this for 1000s of years.

I think the problem lies with the scrotes who try to sell the items as genuine it doesn't matter whether it is chinese or Russian.

Crooks will always be crooks and whilst the law does nothing to stop the crimanals and people want a quick buck it will keep trundling along.

If someone offered me a kg of silver for £500 do I take it or advise them that is too cheap. My personal position would be to advise them of the correct price and i will buy the bar as long as it was genuine.

The price should be spot + whatever % I work on other wise I am no better than the scrotes.

 

This kind of works both ways sometimes. I remember once many years ago there was someone on ebay who had gotten hold of a bunch of replica (ie fake) aged custom shop Gibson guitars - four or five of them if memory serves.   They looked amazing in the pics but the seller stated clearly that they were all replicas and that no one should bid or buy them thinking they were real custom shop Gibsons.  The bids went reasonably high into the hundreds of £££s and the seller sold them all but received more than one negative feedback comment as the buyers who paid too much for them hadn't read the terms of sale properly and complained when they received a fake guitar.

Q. is there a scrote in this scenario? and if so, who is it, because the seller was honest and the buyer(s) made an honest if unfortunate mistake through his/her own laziness.

Edited January 10, 2023 by flyingveepixie

[Spyder]

8 hours ago, Fenlander1 said:

Good point pls allow me to retort.

1st of all dickensons real deal is telly. (NOT REAL)

An antiques dealer is dealing in the price someone is willing to pay not on a known figure that anyone can see. He has offered a price that he believes is fair unless he is a scrote.

You walk into the shop and believe you know the market for the said item better than he does you can have a little haggle and purchase the item. No issues you take the item because of your knowledge and contacts you have earned through trust you make a few quid.

Everyone is happy no scrotes involved.

Scenario 2

The seller asked you to buy the said item and you know its true value and offer the same price as the antiques dealer without being honest as to its true value then to me that would make you a scrote.

So now put yourself in the sellers position who would you trade with again.

Now put that into the pm world. I will give you a true example

Ebay

listed 5 silver coins for £125 and I place another listing 10 coins and I mistakenly list for the same price as 5 both buy it now.

Now the dilemma do notify the buyer of his mistake or hit buy it now. 

If you hit buy it now you expect the seller to honour their agreement other wise you will be leaving bad feedback. 

I would honour the deal its my mistake but whoever bought them off me would never deal with me again.

This takes us back to your original question of feedback.

Tsf is a trust based system I know that an established member not high feedback will be an honourable person and will pay me there word is there bond.

I don't understand why this is a hard concept for you to grasp. It is a shame this should have to be explained.

I totally agree with 99% of what you have written above, apart the the last line.

I understand and I know who I am and if I sold something, then it would be sent out. The original question was why all the trust has to come 100% from one side when no one really has been scammed.

Notice a new seller last night only signed up with zero feedback, selling hundreds of coins and I guess they have read this thread as they have put in their advert willing to send out before payment or pay 50% now and the rest after delivery. Established members also seem happy with this concept.

If nothing else, this thread has helped many to think differently. For that the reason, I am glad I started the debate. Everyone wins in the end.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Spyder

[Petra]

10 hours ago, Fenlander1 said:

Had a good discussion with my son the other day about this very subject.

He broke his watch and wanted a new one nothing special or pricey. We had the debate about the fake Chinese watches versus the high end genuine copies.

Whilst I don't like the idea of fake items we will never stop the ball rolling now.

My argument was if it keeps good time and you like the look of it does it matter if it is fake or does it only matter if you are trying to pass it off as genuine.

Unfortunatly forgers have been doing this for 1000s of years.

I think the problem lies with the scrotes who try to sell the items as genuine it doesn't matter whether it is chinese or Russian.

Crooks will always be crooks and whilst the law does nothing to stop the crimanals and people want a quick buck it will keep trundling along.

If someone offered me a kg of silver for £500 do I take it or advise them that is too cheap. My personal position would be to advise them of the correct price and i will buy the bar as long as it was genuine.

The price should be spot + whatever % I work on other wise I am no better than the scrotes.

 

A friend of mine once bought a fake Rolex years ago in Mexico. Very cheap, unless you knew what you were looking at you really couldn’t tell. He used it as a great work watch for about 20 years.🫢

[Spyder]

9 minutes ago, Petra said:

A friend of mine once bought a fake Rolex years ago in Mexico. Very cheap, unless you knew what you were looking at you really couldn’t tell. He used it as a great work watch for about 20 years.🫢

A fake is when someone selling is trying to pass it off as an original, in your example a ROLEX. What your friend bought was a replica and sold as. Nothing wrong with that.

If you go into Aldi they are selling what is replica Jaffa cakes and even calling them Jaffa cakes.

[flyingveepixie]

48 minutes ago, Petra said:

A friend of mine once bought a fake Rolex years ago in Mexico. Very cheap, unless you knew what you were looking at you really couldn’t tell. He used it as a great work watch for about 20 years.🫢

I bought loads of fake rolexes and other big names in Kao San Road (Bangkok)  when I was there donkeys years ago.  They lasted a year or two before giving up the ghost and then got binned. They only cost pennies as I recall.

[Fenlander1]

2 hours ago, flyingveepixie said:

This kind of works both ways sometimes. I remember once many years ago there was someone on ebay who had gotten hold of a bunch of replica (ie fake) aged custom shop Gibson guitars - four or five of them if memory serves.   They looked amazing in the pics but the seller stated clearly that they were all replicas and that no one should bid or buy them thinking they were real custom shop Gibsons.  The bids went reasonably high into the hundreds of £££s and the seller sold them all but received more than one negative feedback comment as the buyers who paid too much for them hadn't read the terms of sale properly and complained when they received a fake guitar.

Q. is there a scrote in this scenario? and if so, who is it, because the seller was honest and the buyer(s) made an honest if unfortunate mistake through his/her own laziness.

A. Seller not a scrote As long as the sales description was clear and honest unlike some we see where the seller writes a lovely long detailed description and then the final words are (item a reproduction or may be plated).

I suspect the buyers who left negative feedback were scrotes or just plain thick.

[SidS]

First thing I learned in coin collecting (in almost all coin catalogue intros) - Do your research, know your stuff. If it's the buyer's responsibility to know what they are buying, the same could also apply to the sellers, they should know the market value of what they are selling.

Overpaying and underpaying comes from one side not knowing what they've got.

Obviously, when it comes to fakes and particularly well produced fakes that can fool even the experts, then more safeguards need to be considered. The old bank adage of know your customer, or in the case of coins and antiques - more accurately, know the source or provenance if you will, of what you buy.

Any doubts, then stick to trusted sellers and buyers even if the expense is more or the profit margins less.

Edited January 10, 2023 by SidS

[Fenlander1]

2 hours ago, Spyder said:

I totally agree with 99% of what you have written above, apart the the last line.

I understand and I know who I am and if I sold something, then it would be sent out. The original question was why all the trust has to come 100% from one side when no one really has been scammed.

Notice a new seller last night only signed up with zero feedback, selling hundreds of coins and I guess they have read this thread as they have put in their advert willing to send out before payment or pay 50% now and the rest after delivery. Established members also seem happy with this concept.

If nothing else, this thread has helped many to think differently. For that the reason, I am glad I started the debate. Everyone wins in the end.

Thank you for your reply I have deleted the last line as don't wish offend you or anyone else. 

There will always be differences in opinion and that is a good thing and everyone is entitled to their own.

I personally like the old system and I am quite happy to send out 1st to an established member.

if it was 2 new members having a deal then 50 50 is a good way.

 

[Fenlander1]

I think it is hard for an oldie like me to accept change. If it ain't broke don't fix it mentality I suppose.

I don't use all the new social media things but I understand things are done quite differently now it appears to me earning trust may be a thing of times gone by.👍

[sovereignsteve]

I believe Facebook marketplace/trading groups are a bit like the wildwest. I don't know for sure because I have never used FB, for trading or otherwise. I have heard of horrendous tales of buyers being ripped off and scammed in the name of open market trading in the last few years.

Trading on this forum has grown from it's roots as a few deals between members many of whom had gained their silver stacking spurs together on other forums. Then, as the forum grew, more and more deals were struck on the basis of trust between people of like minds and interests. Generally members strove to keep costs down by adopting fee-free money transfer avenues that invariably offered no insurance to either party. This section of the forum has grown and grown, picking up dealers and part-time dealers along the way.

It works because of it's history and gradual evolution. Perhaps the alternatives of ebay and FB have helped to keep out the scammers by providing them with an easier environment in which to operate and, because this forum is self-policing to a large extent, the current "system" has evolved?

As someone said earlier, if it ain't broken, don't try to fix it, or something like that😁 Personally, I get annoyed when new members come here and try to change the culture and moan when everyone here won't play by their rules. It's very impolite and lacks class IMO. Usually though, they disappear fairly quickly.😊

[Bigmarc]

3 hours ago, flyingveepixie said:

I bought loads of fake rolexes and other big names in Kao San Road (Bangkok)  when I was there donkeys years ago.  They lasted a year or two before giving up the ghost and then got binned. They only cost pennies as I recall.

Did you see this when on telly? 

Woman bought in a fake Rolex watch, as a watch it was worth nothing but was made out of gold. dealer then smashed up the watch and weighed the gold. 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/tv/6764866/million-pound-pawn-smash-grandfathers-rolex-fake/ 

 

[flyingveepixie]

31 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

I believe Facebook marketplace/trading groups are a bit like the wildwest. I don't know for sure because I have never used FB, for trading or otherwise. I have heard of horrendous tales of buyers being ripped off and scammed in the name of open market trading in the last few years.

As someone said earlier, if it ain't broken, don't try to fix it, or something like that😁 Personally, I get annoyed when new members come here and try to change the culture and moan when everyone here won't play by their rules. It's very impolite and lacks class IMO. Usually though, they disappear fairly quickly.😊

I've never tried trading on Facebook marketplace myself and probably never will as I don't use FB, twitter or any of that other bollocks.   Once upon a time I made a token attempt to go along with the herd and had a facebook page for the sake of my small business back in the days when I was still interested in trying to expand it.  I tried no less than three times with FB but deleted the account in short order every time as I always found the entire experience to be degrading and an insult to my intelligence.

I agree regarding the newbies who come on here and expect trading arrangements to be made according to their needs and wishes, and to suit them rather than the other party - I think it's down to a sense of entitlement syndrome which I believe they teach in schools these days along with lessons on how not to misgender someone, how not to hurt the feelings of terrorists, and how to be kind to burglars (duty of care concept : google it). 

2 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

Did you see this when on telly? 

Woman bought in a fake Rolex watch, as a watch it was worth nothing but was made out of gold. dealer then smashed up the watch and weighed the gold. 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/tv/6764866/million-pound-pawn-smash-grandfathers-rolex-fake/ 

 

Lol, no I don't have a telly but it sounds like an amusing scenario..

Edited January 10, 2023 by flyingveepixie

[Petra]

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

I believe Facebook marketplace/trading groups are a bit like the wildwest. I don't know for sure because I have never used FB, for trading or otherwise. I have heard of horrendous tales of buyers being ripped off and scammed in the name of open market trading in the last few years.

Trading on this forum has grown from it's roots as a few deals between members many of whom had gained their silver stacking spurs together on other forums. Then, as the forum grew, more and more deals were struck on the basis of trust between people of like minds and interests. Generally members strove to keep costs down by adopting fee-free money transfer avenues that invariably offered no insurance to either party. This section of the forum has grown and grown, picking up dealers and part-time dealers along the way.

It works because of it's history and gradual evolution. Perhaps the alternatives of ebay and FB have helped to keep out the scammers by providing them with an easier environment in which to operate and, because this forum is self-policing to a large extent, the current "system" has evolved?

As someone said earlier, if it ain't broken, don't try to fix it, or something like that😁 Personally, I get annoyed when new members come here and try to change the culture and moan when everyone here won't play by their rules. It's very impolite and lacks class IMO. Usually though, they disappear fairly quickly.😊

The only Facebook forum I have ever dared go on was one that I was guided to by someone I dealt with on here. Had some great deals on there, plus an eBay shop that one on there had. Unfortunately both have just disappeared… obviously some issue, but I only got decent stuff at decent prices. I know some others on here were on it as they were using the same avatars 🤔😮

[Fenlander1]

On 05/01/2023 at 18:42, Spyder said:

Hello to all forum members

This is a general question "How many forum members have been scammed by a new forum member who has decided to sell metals they had?

I keep seeing as soon as someone registered on the forum, the first thing everyone says to them is "only buy from sellers with plenty of feedback".

Now how is a new seller supposed to get feedback if no one buys from them.

Trust is a two way street. 

Send us what you are selling and when it arrives we will pay you I am told.

I have put up three listing for what I can see is very fair prices and no one was willing to trust me and the people who will benefit is not forum members but dealers in Hatton Garden this weekend. I was willing to meet buyers and do cash on pickup and have even offered to swap where I would still be trusting someone else to send me their metals in exchange for mine. 

I have purposely not bumped any of my listing as it is pointless as new member. 

So I ask the question again "How many members have been scammed by a new seller"

Spyder

Hello again I take this thread right back on topic.

Answer to original question.

Not many tsf has a system that works.

That's it.

[Taikonaut]

I don't know about new ebay sellers but I'm having difficulty getting my refund from an established ebayer "change-checker-com" Ian Paul Lambert. Maybe he is member here? I ordered a BBC Piedfort 50p on 10th October 2022 with estimated delivery 28th November but whether he got the coin from Royal Mint on time I do not know but I started contacteing selle for a refund at the beginning of this month, got a reply and asking me to ask ebay to step in. Why cant they just give me a refund? Anway the option to get ebay to step in returns an error message. Ilet ebay know what is happening an dbecause its passed 30 days from the estimated delivery its now in the goodwill of the seller to refund me🙄