Posting 1oz silver coins

[LittleMan]

Hi,

What postal option is best for sending silver coins?

Firstly what is best for a signal coin with a value of up to £40?

For several coins with a value of £100-£200?

Even more coins £200-£500?

And finally for a tube or roll ,£500+?

I have been selling some coins on eBay and this forum and have been posting coins 2nd signed for. However, I recently read RM's T&C and it appears that silver is not covered by their insurance, its also not actually tracked! RM recommend Special delivery for gold, silver or cash, but the cost is prohibitive for single coins.

So any advice on the best postal option or recommended packaging methods would be appreciated.

[FourNinesFine]

You're right, the costs can seem prohibitive for a single coin, but the bottom line is that's the only way they're insured. For this reason, the vast majority of sellers on TSF state that buyer chooses postage at their risk.

I recently used the Special Delivery option to send goods with a value of over £1000 (not precious metals) and while I can't remember the exact limit, I was well within the threshold. So I think SD covers your stated scenarios comfortably in terms of insured value - though I don't know if the weight of the PMs would impact costs.

[TheShinyStuff]

It depends on the value of the package and your attitude to risk.

Signed for is reasonably cheap, but you're right, bullion is not insured. The insurance value is only £50 anyway. To be fair I have never had any issues with Signed for, maybe its taken a day or two longer than I'd have liked, but never had anything go missing. For a few ounces of silver I (and most here I presume) are happy with this level of risk. It kills the value in this level of transaction if you have to add £8 postage costs.

Obviously if the package is of significant value, I'd use Special Delivery. Your level of significant is probably different from mine, its a subjective decision I suppose, but the maximum insurance of SD is £2500, so anything above that I'd split into smaller packages, or consider a courier.

Generally speaking the cost and risk of delivery is the responsibility of the buyer, and you should always make this clear.

Edited June 13, 2022 by TheShinyStuff

[Bigmarc]

I once had delivered a jiffy bag that had been damaged with half crowns falling out of it. It was put inside a clear royal mail bag with sorry your parcel had been damaged during transit. There was a claim number with it and managed to claim the full amount. 

Posting on here is fine as the buyer decides the risk level. eBay is a bit of a risk all together but only ever had one problem. I usually post coins inside dvd cases, just to hide the value and personally anything over a £100 I post SD. 

[StackerBritt]

I agree, on this forum it comes down to the buyers attitude to risk.  
 

However something else to consider - I had a bit of a strange one the other day with 1st Class Signed For.  I bought a sovereign for about £370ish (can’t remember the exact number) and the seller gave me the option of SD for about £9 or FCSF for about £2.50.  I chose FCSF as I was happy to take the risk on it.  However on the day of arrival the package came through the letterbox with no knock at the door and no request for signature.  Fortunately the package was intact and Sovereign was fine but it bugged me that I hadn’t had to sign for it and I didn’t understand how proof of delivery would work.  The seller had provided me with a tracking reference so I looked it up on Royal Mails website and it said the there was a generic squiggle signature with some random initials which i can only assume was the postie who signed it as they couldn’t be bothered to knock at the door.  Fortunately everything worked out ok for me and I can’t be bothered to follow it up but presumably in these circumstances a buyer could challenge the fact that it had been delivered at all?

 

Anyone else come across this before?

 

 

[Petra]

3 minutes ago, StackerBritt said:

I agree, on this forum it comes down to the buyers attitude to risk.  
 

However something else to consider - I had a bit of a strange one the other day with 1st Class Signed For.  I bought a sovereign for about £370ish (can’t remember the exact number) and the seller gave me the option of SD for about £9 or FCSF for about £2.50.  I chose FCSF as I was happy to take the risk on it.  However on the day of arrival the package came through the letterbox with no knock at the door and no request for signature.  Fortunately the package was intact and Sovereign was fine but it bugged me that I hadn’t had to sign for it and I didn’t understand how proof of delivery would work.  The seller had provided me with a tracking reference so I looked it up on Royal Mails website and it said the there was a generic squiggle signature with some random initials which i can only assume was the postie who signed it as they couldn’t be bothered to knock at the door.  Fortunately everything worked out ok for me and I can’t be bothered to follow it up but presumably in these circumstances a buyer could challenge the fact that it had been delivered at all?

 

Anyone else come across this before?

 

 

Haven’t signed for a ‘signed for’ for …. well I can’t remember when, ages and ages. Surprised people are not getting caught out 

[TheShinyStuff]

21 minutes ago, StackerBritt said:

I agree, on this forum it comes down to the buyers attitude to risk.  
 

However something else to consider - I had a bit of a strange one the other day with 1st Class Signed For.  I bought a sovereign for about £370ish (can’t remember the exact number) and the seller gave me the option of SD for about £9 or FCSF for about £2.50.  I chose FCSF as I was happy to take the risk on it.  However on the day of arrival the package came through the letterbox with no knock at the door and no request for signature.  Fortunately the package was intact and Sovereign was fine but it bugged me that I hadn’t had to sign for it and I didn’t understand how proof of delivery would work.  The seller had provided me with a tracking reference so I looked it up on Royal Mails website and it said the there was a generic squiggle signature with some random initials which i can only assume was the postie who signed it as they couldn’t be bothered to knock at the door.  Fortunately everything worked out ok for me and I can’t be bothered to follow it up but presumably in these circumstances a buyer could challenge the fact that it had been delivered at all?

 

Anyone else come across this before?

 

 

Since covid, the 'heroes' at RM haven't been chapping your door for a signature. Utter nonsense. I suspect this will be the normal going forward. No price reduction to reflect the lesser service surprisingly enough. Just another business/organisation happy to keep the benefits of covid.

 

[StackerBritt]

12 minutes ago, TheShinyStuff said:

Since covid, the 'heroes' at RM haven't been chapping your door for a signature. Utter nonsense. I suspect this will be the normal going forward. No price reduction to reflect the lesser service surprisingly enough. Just another business/organisation happy to keep the benefits of covid.

 

So we have to take the posties word for it that they have delivered it?  That sounds a bit iffy to me, not sure how it works when someone says that it wasn’t delivered.

 

[TheShinyStuff]

1 minute ago, StackerBritt said:

So we have to take the posties word for it that they have delivered it?  That sounds a bit iffy to me, not sure how it works when someone says that it wasn’t delivered.

 

Like I said I've never actually had any problems with RM so far, but my Ring doorbell gives me a bit of confidence in that I can prove if a postie has actually been at my door or not...

[LittleMan]

Thanks for the replies.

A few years back I was selling Air Rifle Darts on ebay. They kept going missing in the post when posted 2nd class. So I switched to signed for, then even more went missing!

A friend of mine suggested it was because the darts felt like a necklaces or piece of jewellery in the envelope.

It was annoying because the darts were a very cheap item.

I solved the problem in the end by using envelopes with a window on them, so people could see its not worth pinching - not sure this would work for gold and silver though 🤔

When selling on this forum I had assumed that as the seller it was my responsibility to ensure the customer received their goods, and I would be responsible for refunding or replacing the item if it goes missing.

However I have seen other sellers using phrases like "postage at buyers choice and risk" - I think I will adopt this method for my future listings.

I recently posted 5 coins to a fellow forum member using 2nd signed for. RMs tracking just says it was "Accepted at Post Office", yet the forum member has confirmed that it has arrived. So I am seriously questing if signed for is any better than standard mail.

[StackerBritt]

52 minutes ago, LittleMan said:

So I am seriously questing if signed for is any better than standard mail.

If Royal Mail not longer get you to sign then I can’t see how it is any different at all

[Pete]

6 hours ago, StackerBritt said:

I agree, on this forum it comes down to the buyers attitude to risk.  
 

However something else to consider - I had a bit of a strange one the other day with 1st Class Signed For.  I bought a sovereign for about £370ish (can’t remember the exact number) and the seller gave me the option of SD for about £9 or FCSF for about £2.50.  I chose FCSF as I was happy to take the risk on it.  However on the day of arrival the package came through the letterbox with no knock at the door and no request for signature.  Fortunately the package was intact and Sovereign was fine but it bugged me that I hadn’t had to sign for it and I didn’t understand how proof of delivery would work.  The seller had provided me with a tracking reference so I looked it up on Royal Mails website and it said the there was a generic squiggle signature with some random initials which i can only assume was the postie who signed it as they couldn’t be bothered to knock at the door.  Fortunately everything worked out ok for me and I can’t be bothered to follow it up but presumably in these circumstances a buyer could challenge the fact that it had been delivered at all?

 

Anyone else come across this before?

 

 

Many packages that fit through a letter box will be simply posted through and the postie will place his/her mark on their scanner which also records time and location. If you were to challenge non delivery I think you would find this very difficult. Special Delivery is treated entirely differently and should always require a name and signature to obtain. Tracked 24/48 will usually require a photograph showing an open door or through a letterbox to identify the property. Covid played a big role in changing how the postal service works and for most I am pleased that I don't have to drive to the sorting office to collect a low value package that was tracked.

[TheShinyStuff]

Another benefit of Signed For, or Not Signed For as the case may be, is that you can provide proof of postage and a tracking number. And proof of when RM have delivered, or at least say they have delivered.

[James32]

9 hours ago, StackerBritt said:

I agree, on this forum it comes down to the buyers attitude to risk.  
 

However something else to consider - I had a bit of a strange one the other day with 1st Class Signed For.  I bought a sovereign for about £370ish (can’t remember the exact number) and the seller gave me the option of SD for about £9 or FCSF for about £2.50.  I chose FCSF as I was happy to take the risk on it.  However on the day of arrival the package came through the letterbox with no knock at the door and no request for signature.  Fortunately the package was intact and Sovereign was fine but it bugged me that I hadn’t had to sign for it and I didn’t understand how proof of delivery would work.  The seller had provided me with a tracking reference so I looked it up on Royal Mails website and it said the there was a generic squiggle signature with some random initials which i can only assume was the postie who signed it as they couldn’t be bothered to knock at the door.  Fortunately everything worked out ok for me and I can’t be bothered to follow it up but presumably in these circumstances a buyer could challenge the fact that it had been delivered at all?

 

Anyone else come across this before?

 

 

If it fits through the letterbox, then I've never signed for anything 😅 even with sd, I or family members are just handed parcel 😃

[CANV]

get to know your postman/s.  my mob will sign for and stash anything in the front garden. top boys..  same with the binmen. they will take anything..   amazing what a chat and Christmas tip will achieve.   

[StackerBritt]

12 minutes ago, CANV said:

get to know your postman/s.

They’re always in such a rush.  They don’t even stop to see to the missus anymore 🤣

[LawrenceChard]

19 hours ago, LittleMan said:

Hi,

What postal option is best for sending silver coins?

Firstly what is best for a signal coin with a value of up to £40?

For several coins with a value of £100-£200?

Even more coins £200-£500?

And finally for a tube or roll ,£500+?

I have been selling some coins on eBay and this forum and have been posting coins 2nd signed for. However, I recently read RM's T&C and it appears that silver is not covered by their insurance, its also not actually tracked! RM recommend Special delivery for gold, silver or cash, but the cost is prohibitive for single coins.

So any advice on the best postal option or recommended packaging methods would be appreciated.

I can see you have received answers and helpful advice. It does require some effort and experience to choose the optimum packaging and shipping, so i understand the problems.

Strangely enough, almost everyone on TSF expects FREE POSTAGE, although that's possibly only when they are buying from a dealer!

😎

[James32]

16 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I can see you have received answers and helpful advice. It does require some effort and experience to choose the optimum packaging and shipping, so i understand the problems.

Strangely enough, almost everyone on TSF expects FREE POSTAGE, although that's possibly only when they are buying from a dealer!

😎

Postage is never free Lawrence,  you should know this🤣

[LawrenceChard]

25 minutes ago, James32 said:

Postage is never free Lawrence,  you should know this🤣

That was precisely my main point!

😎

[James32]

12 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

That was precisely my main point!

😎

I know 😁

[Petra]

9 hours ago, StackerBritt said:

They’re always in such a rush.  They don’t even stop to see to the missus anymore 🤣

Ones around here must lead quite the life, they are never off their mobile phones 😁

[arphethean]

Actually under UK distance selling laws it is the seller's responsibility to get the package to the buyer. 

The peer to peer PM community is at risk of becoming complacent on the issue and assume that it is a universal understanding that the buyer assumes responsibility by choosing whatever service they are comfortable with. In practice it rarely happens that the buyer explicitly states they are taking the risk. 

Just because it is a common approach in this community to take the unorthodox approach of buyer's risk, not all buyer's and sellers agree with it, and the specific terms are not often stated, so the risk of making assumptions during a transaction is that it anything goes wrong, resolving it will become fraught. 

Sellers need to be aware that if they choose to send an item uninsured which doesn't arrive or is damaged, they will legally be required to reimburse the buyer unless prior written agreement was made to the contrary. I doubt it would be sufficient simply to pop a lazy disclaimer in the listing saying "buyer's choice of post". The buyer would specifically have to say that they agree that there will be no compensation if the package were to go missing. Any sensible buyer would also be sensible to accept those terms only on condition that the seller provides proof of posting in the form of a photo of the receipt which shows the weight of the parcel, the address sent to, the tracking number and the date. 

The written contract between the buyer and seller then becomes quite protracted and this becomes impractical to do each time for a £30 package. 

I have personally got round this problem with three approaches.

The first is due diligence. If a seller has a good reputation and I've dealt with them before I will trust they will provide me with their typical service. Without trust and care this whole business quickly crumbles. If an item is of high value and I want it sent 1st signed for I will make sure terms are clear. 

The second is a mathematical understanding that paying for special delivery is only worth for sending high value items. If one in 500 packages goes missing by 1st signed for (a conservative estimate based on my data going back two years), then by saving £4 per package in postage 500 times you are in theory saving against the loss of a £2000 item going missing. Obviously that's quite extreme an example and I would never entrust an item of that value to SF as that loss would be emotionally hard to take and that risk is not factored in mathematically. Each person can instead consider their own attitude to loss and risk and think how much would I be comfortable to lose? Under that value, go 1st signed for. Over, go SD.

The third is through a business insurance which I have purchased, which covers all items I send up to £5k as long as I send at least signed for/tracked. I hope never to have to use it but it means i have that back up and can confidently post knowing i can reimburse the buyer and claim on insurance if tracking shows the item wasn't delivered after a certain time (i now set this as a month as one package i sent arrived a month after!) It is worth it for the number of items I post and I expect many people selling any moderate volume of bullion would be well advised to take out such insurance for peace of mind and the postage savings made which will offset the cost within a couple of months. The insurance also covers the bullion itself when in storage or on your person when out. 

I thought I would add some detail to the topic as it is a really important issue so that buyers and sellers can adequately inform and protect themselves. There are misunderstandings in the community and this can and does lead to big problems, losses and fall outs which nobody wants. 

[arphethean]

Just to add as well, sellers should always be organised and take a photo of the parcel and keep every postage receipt for at least 6 months in case of an issue arising. 

[James32]

2 minutes ago, arphethean said:

Just to add as well, sellers should always be organised and take a photo of the parcel and keep every postage receipt for at least 6 months in case of an issue arising. 

Some excellent points above, may I ask why 6 months on the receipt? I usually keep for 30 days or until feedback is left.

[arphethean]

2 minutes ago, James32 said:

Some excellent points above, may I ask why 6 months on the receipt? I usually keep for 30 days or until feedback is left.

Yes, should have said only if you haven't had confirmation of arrival you should keep it. I have had buyers come back to me months later, and in one case a seller did not provide me with a receipt and disappeared off Facebook. When I finally reestablished contact with him a year later asking where my item was he said he hasn't kept the receipt so couldn't prove he'd posted it. I lost that case anyway but a seller could protect themselves by keeping the proof in case the buyer came back later.