Crypto vs Gold

[billp]

Hodl some crypto, but trust in God's money

[dicker]

14 hours ago, Roy said:

Your point about getting on board with crypto being easy is correct, but you'll find that everyone in Asia owns gold. Everyone.

You are not wrong.  I am careful what I say about PM’s, but when I was last in India to see some great guys, I asked them about gold and they all LOVED the conversation and all owned gold.  Quite a pleasure.  Few folk in the U.K. get excited about PM’s.  

[ArgentSmith]

4 hours ago, RDHC said:

However that may be, it's the elementary  arithmetic that would put me off investing much in crypto at this point, at least so far as the market leader Bitcoin is concerned. Its current level of 60,000 plus may or may not be justified intrinsically, but it's a mighty big leap from there if you are going to double your money, and would anything less than that be worth the anxiety levels that you will undoubtedly suffer on the way?

A number of listed companies now have BTC as a treasury asset with over $10billion held between Micro Strategy and Tesla alone, now Countries have joined the fray, ok El Salvador isn't the biggest Country but it's a start. If you think Bitcoin is expensive at $60k you may be interested to learn it is trading at aprox an 85% discount to Gold.

The $60,000 question is, what has more potential for growth in the future as a settlement layer, store of value?

[CANV]

bitcoin is for the youth.. the olduns will happily sit in their lazy boys ranting at the BBC whilst fondling a pile of Britannias or eagles.  its a generational thing 

[Bigmarc]

1 minute ago, CANV said:

bitcoin is for the youth.. the olduns will happily sit in their lazy boys ranting at the BBC whilst fondling a pile of Britannias or eagles.  its a generational thing 

Brilliant... And being all bitter and twisted that their metals haven't saved them from the financial collapse yet. 

Marc aged 65 😁

[Roy]

Whoa! Oldies like crypto too, just we don't have the luxury of time to recover should things go pear-shaped!

But it's a risk worth taking, within reason.

[ArgentSmith]

52 minutes ago, Roy said:

Whoa! Oldies like crypto too, just we don't have the luxury of time to recover should things go pear-shaped!

But it's a risk worth taking, within reason.

"No one should have a zero Bitcoin position" - Lyn Alden

[RDHC]

On 20/10/2021 at 23:53, ArgentSmith said:

If you think Bitcoin is expensive at $60k you may be interested to learn it is trading at aprox an 85% discount to Gold.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what does 'an 85% discount to gold' mean? 85% of what? I'm open to conversion if this figure can be explained to me. Many thanks.

[Bigmarc]

5 hours ago, RDHC said:

Forgive my ignorance, but what does 'an 85% discount to gold' mean? 85% of what? I'm open to conversion if this figure can be explained to me. Many thanks.

I think it was said by a bitcoin pumper on YouTube. I heard the quote in the last few days. I think it was a channel called invest answers but I am unable to find where he said it. The crypto pumpers are twice as bad as the silver pumps. 

[ArgentSmith]

1 hour ago, Bigmarc said:

I think it was said by a bitcoin pumper on YouTube. I heard the quote in the last few days. I think it was a channel called invest answers but I am unable to find where he said it. The crypto pumpers are twice as bad as the silver pumps. 

I wasn't quoting anyone, it's just simple maths.

[Bigmarc]

2 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

I wasn't quoting anyone, it's just simple maths.

Are you sure???? 

[ArgentSmith]

6 hours ago, RDHC said:

Forgive my ignorance, but what does 'an 85% discount to gold' mean? 85% of what? I'm open to conversion if this figure can be explained to me. Many thanks.

The market cap of Gold is about 10x more than the market cap of BTC. So it's very cheap assuming BTC continues to replace Gold as a store of value/settlement layer.

The discount is prob more like 88%-90% but above ground Gold can't be accurately audited and neither can below ground Gold.

1 minute ago, Bigmarc said:

Are you sure???? 

100% sure

[ArgentSmith]

Can anyone name one advantage Gold has over Bitcoin, with regard to it's function as money. Not jewellery making.

[Danny-boy]

1 hour ago, ArgentSmith said:

Can anyone name one advantage Gold has over Bitcoin, with regard to it's function as money. Not jewellery making.

Gold is not reliant on electricity or a web connection.

In an electricity blackout, or global internet outage, crypto is completely useless.

Gold is physical and can be traded without technological barriers.

[Bigmarc]

5 hours ago, ArgentSmith said:

Can anyone name one advantage Gold has over Bitcoin, with regard to it's function as money. Not jewellery making.

Neither of them are money. Bills, salary, mortgage, fuel, taxes, shopping, night out on the beers. All require both to be exchanged for fiat. 

On the flip side, whist out shopping with my fiat, buying my hummus and Perrie water. I could just put these in the basket. No exchanges, all private, there is no extra charge at the till, there I no charge to move them to my man bag, if I wanted to send it to a friend to keep in his safe, no charge and when I'm ready, sell it on here without charge. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Bigmarc
Spelling

[ArgentSmith]

19 hours ago, Danny-boy said:

Gold is not reliant on electricity or a web connection.

In an electricity blackout, or global internet outage, crypto is completely useless.

Gold is physical and can be traded without technological barriers.

Seems like a fair point but if there was a Global internet outage and electricity blackout for any amount of time there would be nothing to buy. Certainly can't imagine a candle lit Supermarket with mechanical tills accepting gold and silver coins.

[ArgentSmith]

14 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

Neither of them are money. Bills, salary, mortgage, fuel, taxes, shopping, night out on the beers. All require both to be exchanged for fiat. 

On the flip side, whist out shopping with my fiat, buying my hummus and Perrie water. I could just put these in the basket. 

 

Fiat is better?, not the answer I was looking for

[Bigmarc]

7 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

Fiat is better?, not the answer I was looking for

Well it's the most realistic one when you are referring to money. 

[Danny-boy]

39 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

Seems like a fair point but if there was a Global internet outage and electricity blackout for any amount of time there would be nothing to buy. Certainly can't imagine a candle lit Supermarket with mechanical tills accepting gold and silver coins.

But that is not the question you were asking.

If there is something to buy, PM's could work but crypto could not. It would be impossible to buy something with crypto.

[pricha]

On 22/10/2021 at 00:30, CANV said:

bitcoin is for the youth.. the olduns will happily sit in their lazy boys ranting at the BBC whilst fondling a pile of Britannias or eagles.  its a generational thing 

40 years ago young people saved money into a building society account then bought a house. Today that's virtually impossible so they gamble their money on cryptos hoping to get rich quick and get a deposit for a house. But almost everyone else is doing the same . 20% is bought by desperate youngsters using credit. The questions is what will happen in a crash ? The 20% will be in major trouble.  I can sleep easy every night on 50 grand worth of gold. 50 grand in cryptos would keep me awake all night  . I and many olduns actually have a few bitcoin etc for a littler flutter , a bit of fun , but we won't be wiped out on a crash.  

Edited October 23, 2021 by pricha

[ArgentSmith]

5 hours ago, pricha said:

I can sleep easy every night on 50 grand worth of gold. 50 grand in cryptos would keep me awake all night  . I and many olduns actually have a few bitcoin etc for a littler flutter , a bit of fun , but we won't be wiped out on a crash.  

You might want to take some off the table, 3 Bitcoin = 133grand

[ArgentSmith]

13 hours ago, Danny-boy said:

If there is something to buy, PM's could work but crypto could not. It would be impossible to buy something with crypto.

Very theoretical, but yes I agree it would be "possible" to use PMs to trade in a World without electricity and Internet. However it is also "possible" to use Bitcoin with transactions broadcast via satellites, of course with solar panels and generators etc there are plenty of off grid sources of electricity. So I would argue it is also theoretically possible to use Bitcoin in such a doomsday scenario. 🤓

[Roy]

 

16 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

I agree it would be "possible" to use PMs to trade in a World without electricity and Internet

Have you seen the article about Venezuela?

https://financialpost.com/news/economy/in-venezuela-people-break-off-flakes-of-gold-to-pay-for-meals-and-haircuts

I'd say the S has HTF there.

'The small-time operators of illegal mines typically pay day labourers in nuggets, so there’s plenty of bullion to be had. That steady supply, coupled with internet reception that’s so shoddy that digital transactions are nearly impossible, makes gold the least-bad option for locals.'

Crypto doesn't work, fiat is worthless yet holding gold (and silver I'm sure) means people can eat.

[ArgentSmith]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

Crypto doesn't work

https://www.reuters.com/technology/venezuelas-economy-regresses-crypto-fills-gaps-2021-06-22/

[Roy]

It will take me some time to digest!

Thanks.

 

'Valiu uses pesos to buy cryptocurrency that it then sells on LocalBitcoins, a global peer-to-peer site for trading tokens in local currencies.'

Needs electricity/internet.

"When the power is out in Venezuela, when internet service is down, it has a huge impact on how long it takes to send a remittance to one's family," said Toro.

Agreed.

"(Now) I don't have to worry about whether the cell signal dropped in Venezuela, or if cell service drops here."   

Contradictory?

"Valiu buys and sells bitcoin instead of directly exchanging pesos to bolivars because of the lack of availability of that currency in regulated marketplaces," 

Not without power/the Internet, it doesn't.

"Nobody is going to tell you 'every night when we do the books, we convert bolivars into bitcoin,' but yes, this is happening."

Today, but when the power goes off?

I don't get your point? As Dan said, 'In an electricity blackout, or global internet outage, crypto is completely useless.'

Edited October 24, 2021 by Roy