Fake and Imitation Coins from China

[LawrenceChard]

We have seen increasing quantities and variety of fake coins , made in China, of many different types of coins, for about the last 10 years.

Producing replica / counterfeit / imitation coins, and almost anything else, seems to be big business in China.

China does not participate in copyright, design, or patent protection, with a few possible exceptions. All this is apparently perfectly legal in China, and almost certainly encouraged by the Chinese government, possibly to undermine western democracies, or as part of an economic trade war.

Mostly we have encountered these from owners who have bought one or more on ebay, or sometimes from the guy in the pub, an "antique shope", flea market, car boot sale, Amazon, Facebook, and the rest. Sometimes they have paid hundreds of pounds, thinking they were getting some rare coin at a bargain price, others have paid £20, £10 ore even less, and are still happy when told they have a fake, even when told that they could have got the same thing, generally via Ali Express, for a few pound, even taking postage into account. I am usually too polite to tell them bluntly how stupid I think they have been, and it is frustrating that mostly they are not interested in buying any genuine coins, but still expect to pick my / our brains free of charge.

For many years, I / we have been highlighting some fake coins on our websites, for a number of reasons, mainly for education, but in an attempt to help spread some knowledge and experience, hoping it might help some people from being ripped off. This is time consuming, and I have not always had enough spare time to do it, until the last year or two.

In recent months, I had been thinking about buying a selection of modern Chinese fake coins from China, but was spurred on by a topic post about a month ago about 1841 fake gold sovereigns being offered, and sold, on ebay. I contributed to that discussion. I received a package of about 30 to 40 various fakes last week, in one delivery consolidated from 9 different suppliers. Somehow I seem to have missed the 1841 sovereign off the orders, so I need to get back on and add one.

A TSF member asked if I would start a separate topic here, so here goes.

The two posts I have already added, under Today I Received, were:

A 1933 Penny

 

and a 1934 Crown:

I will be adding information such as the cost from China, plus notes about reseller prices in the UK, and probably a few choice comments about the greediness, lack of ethics of the advertisers / sellers, and possibly about the buyers, all while trying to keep it polite, which could require considerable restraint.

As always, feedback, questions, and comments are welcome.

🙂

[LawrenceChard]

1902 Edward VII Silver Crown

Another fake from China:

and the Obverse:

The blowhole to the right of Edward's chin looks like a casting flaw, although I would have thought these fakes were struck rather than cast. I might need to book a holiday research trip to China to see if I can visit a few of their factories to find out.

Of course, the "coin" contained no silver, as shown on this Niton XRF test:

I think I mis-recorded the 2nd Zinc reading as 203 instead of 263

So, approximately

Copper 60%

Zinc 26%

Nickel 9%

Manganese 2%

The eagle-eyed might spot this does not total 100%, but there were a few traces of other metals which I have not shown.

The 1934 crown and two other "silver coin" fakes I tested had a very similar composition.

 

[sovereignsteve]

Excellent idea for a thread. I realise it's extra work for you but dimensions would be very useful for reference.

[LawrenceChard]

20 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Excellent idea for a thread. I realise it's extra work for you but dimensions would be very useful for reference.

Thanks,

I have shown the weight in grams 27.22 compared with 28.28 for a genuine crown.

I did not measure the diameter, because it looked about right, I was rushing, and being ever so slightly lazy.

I will try to remember to measure this and others in the future.

I also intend to mention the cost with and without shipping, from memory this was about £2.50 including postage.

Other 1902 crowns from different suppliers were between £1 and £1.50 each, plus about £1 postage, one claimed to be silver plated.

This and some of the other fakes I bought are available in a choice of "colours", silver, multi-coloured (nice tone), black (circulated appearance).

[pricha]

I find most fake Sovereigns from China easy to spot. But that crown would have me fooled looking at the photo . But then i would only buy such a coin from a reputable dealer. My question is, if they can produce coins that good (to my eye) then why don't they just use .925 silver , as silver is very cheap at the moment and the numismatic value of that coin would be worth far more ?  

[Bruce06]

Thanks for sharing, and agree pricha that the 1902 Crown is hard to tell its authenticity from photo.  If it's selling at few pounds only, then you will know it's fake.  But if someone sell it at let say GBP40 and grade it VF, then you may regard details of the mane and head are worn only.  The only obvious suspicious to me is beads at the top of the obverse side.  Anyway, it's a good fake, and I admit I am not experience enough to tell from pictures. 

May I know if it's with lettering DECUS ET TUTAMEN ANNO REGNI II on edge?

[Bruce06]

For 1933 Penny, I know it's fake without any doubt, because I know I won't meet it at whatever price in my life😅

[dicker]

Many thanks @LawrenceChard for sharing.  The images really are first class!

I am surprised by the quality of the coin to be honest - better than I would have thought.  My first impression is that it looks struck rather than cast. There are areas that look weak including a few of the denticles on the obverse, so happy to be wrong about it being stuck.

One of the things I look at on Sovs which I suspect might be counterfeit is the letting and numerals. In my experience (as an amateur) the forgers do not get the letters / numbers quite right. I suspect this is a result of the forger not being 100% familiar with the typesets. On this coin, they look pretty good.

Best

Dicker

 

[LawrenceChard]

6 hours ago, pricha said:

I find most fake Sovereigns from China easy to spot. But that crown would have me fooled looking at the photo . But then i would only buy such a coin from a reputable dealer. My question is, if they can produce coins that good (to my eye) then why don't they just use .925 silver , as silver is very cheap at the moment and the numismatic value of that coin would be worth far more ?  

Shhhh! They might be listening!

I agree, it is surprising that it is not happening already, but I am sure it will, as it can only be a matter of time. A minty 1902 is worth about £300.

Reasons might be production volume, stock investment, and margins.

Currently, once they have made dies or molds, they might run off a production batch of a few thousand. If the intrinsic metal value is only 10 or 20 pence each, that's not a big stock investment, and if they are selling them at £1 to £2 each, they soon get their money back.

Making silver ones at £14 each intrinsic, is a bigger investment, so would sell more slowly, and would take longer to recoup the investment.

But, yes, this is a scary but almost inevitable  prospect.

😟

Edited October 1, 2021 by LawrenceChard

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, Bruce06 said:

Thanks for sharing, and agree pricha that the 1902 Crown is hard to tell its authenticity from photo.  If it's selling at few pounds only, then you will know it's fake.  But if someone sell it at let say GBP40 and grade it VF, then you may regard details of the mane and head are worn only.  The only obvious suspicious to me is beads at the top of the obverse side.  Anyway, it's a good fake, and I admit I am not experience enough to tell from pictures. 

May I know if it's with lettering DECUS ET TUTAMEN ANNO REGNI II on edge?

Ah!.

Doug must have forgotten to shoot the edges.

I think it says 

" II 國度的美麗與保護 "

but I will check.

Being serious again for a few seconds, yes I think the edge is lettered. Quite a few people at @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer have had a look at these already, and I heard some approving comments about edges, although it might have been about different coins.

 

[Wampum]

I have been caught out with a few, some of the earlier fakes where easier to spot as for some reason they looked oriental around the eyes,

and have seen a few more recent that have wear showing however look freshly minted , they are now faking them with designations such as MS cleaned or AU scratched ,

the idea behind this methinks is that people will think that they are faking perfect coins , so a cleaned coin should be alright.

Great idea for a topic @LawrenceChard ,the more info collectors have the better.

 

         https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/chinese-coin-counterfeiting-ring-4071202

 

Apologies if this has already been shown as the images are at least 10 yrs old

however the 1822 is interesting as I have never seen a quality 1822 counterfeit mentioned ,however have seen a few worn examples. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Wampum

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, Bruce06 said:

For 1933 Penny, I know it's fake without any doubt, because I know I won't meet it at whatever price in my life😅

Why not, there are lots of them around:

Nine out of these ten ebay listings are for 1933 pennies.

Two say "retro" which is dishonest and misleading.

Two say "restrike" which is dishonest and misleading.

Two say "copy" which is still inaccurate. Replica or imitation would be acceptable.

The prooflike one says

"King George V 1933 Penny Type
Uncirculated Condition.

This Coin is a nice gap filler Penny type Coin presented in uncirculated condition for your collection. It may have some scratches and small marks.

Please make sure you look at the pictures and read all the information  regarding this item before you make a purchase.

 This Copper Coin is 31 mm in diameter , 2mm thick and has a plain edge.

Please be aware this coin has no monetary value, it is purely a coin to fill that almost impossible gap in  your collection, it is a representation of a very famous and rare coin.

Please contact me via ebay if you have any questions."

Which is devious, misleading, and dishonest. I feel tempted to send a question "Why don't you come clean and say it's a fake"

One says:

"Garage find 1933 penny. farthing halfcrown shilling+ other King George V Coins

I've been asked for pics of the penny date so I have listed a pic as I'm too busy to keep sending folk a picture so I have listed one

Garage find 1933 King George V Coin set some silver coins.

1933 ....bronze One farthing

1933 ...bronze Half penny

1933 ....bronze One penny

1933..silver 3 pence

1933..silver 6 pence

1933.... silver One shilling

1933...silver 1 florin

1933...silver Half of a crown

These was found In the back of an old wooden clock as seen in pic 12  wrapped in a rag there was also the clock key. And some old Amber earrings that I'm listing separately.  The clock I'm keeping. the coins are dirty dad has tried to get the dirt of with a cloth  but it won't come off so there in dirty condition and come as you see them  but there is some silver coins for someone who collects or melts silver there not a bad set of coins if anyone wants them

the house where these items was found  belonged to a teacher who passed away in his chair my brother in law bought his home and all his possessions was left in the sheds  dad said he would clear the sheds simply  because dad didn't want to skip the man's things he said he would appreciate it more letting others use his things not to just throw them away to be destroyed.  so im listing what I can.  and everything is going to a good cause the clock was found In a cardboard box with the postcards I'm listing but  I'm keeping the clock myself the rag was caught in the spring dad sorted it . it's missing a hand but still works and rings I love the sound so I'm keeping that but you can have the rag as well

My feedback is good and my customers matter it's you that make me a good seller Thank you for visiting"

...and I thought Tolkien wrote great fiction!

Prices range from £3.46 to £64 with 11 bids from 3 different bidders.

Whatever happens, ebay will be making money. 

 

[greendragon]

3 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

"Garage find 1933 penny. farthing halfcrown shilling+ other King George V Coins

check out the feedback for this seller

seems they "find" an astonishing amount of "error" coins and bank notes

shame they do not recognise how rare and valuable these coins could be!

maybe someone should tell them?

[greendragon]

and if you liked the story about the clock...

try this one about a f*ke £50 "error" note

New 50 pound polymer bank note a genuine 50 pound polymer has the picture MISSING from the window I got this at the post office a man got 1000 pound in 50 pound notes and I was behind him waiting he counted them and then again he said some was damaged and wanted them changing the postmaster said to take them to the bank to change them . The man wasn't happy and continued to argue I was still waiting the man said the postmaster can send them and to change them to better ones he had so he reluctantly did when I got to the counter I posted my parcel and asked if I could look at one of them and what he will do with them send them back as damaged currency he said I asked for This one I've never had a fifty pound note before. but he said I can. not for free of course I simply changed it 50 for 50 it is sold as seen I know it's a genuine 50 because the postmaster checked them for the man who got them and then kicked off at the postmaster I have kept it in crisp condition there are no folds or creases it's brand new I have listed it to see if anyone collects them THE polymer has nothing in the window the holograms are there and the queens head but that's it.. you could basically sit this over any  pic. even of yourself and your on a 50 pound note I will package it well

[Pete]

Thank you for sharing your views and perhaps the start of an official section on the forum.

I am utterly amazed at how China can manufacture replicas of gold and silver coins, many of which are categorised as "legal tender" by various governments.
Now I know that a silver Maple with a $5 face value isn't going to be spent in McDonalds BUT the base material or silver plated Chinese replica is 100% copying every nook and cranny on the original coin. Without the knowledge or ability to test and compare, a novice ( or maybe even many forum members ) would definitely be conned but on eBay might have paid near to the price of a genuine 9999 silver coin. This person, not knowing he/she bought a "pup" makes the honest mistake of selling it on and so the coin gets into circulation.

Two points to make -

1. Why are trading standards, Mints or official bodies not clamping down on these counterfeits ?
If I photocopied £50 notes and listed them for sale I would probably be sent to jail in under a month.

2. When obvious fakes are reported to eBay they don't remove them or ban the seller despite their terms & conditions.

Trading standards regularly stop the import of counterfeit designer goods like bags, perfumes and sports apparel so why not precious metal bullion ?

I have a suggestion for @LawrenceChard or @BackyardBullion with his great Youtube videos, or anyone else who has fakes in hand.
The new UK TV channel called GBNews ( channel 515 on SKY ) is breaking the mold in reporting and bringing to the public attention many interesting topics which our political elite and mainstream news channels seem to hide under the carpet. Since they are still relatively young they are relying on only a few advertisers, so adverts are repeated ad-infinitum to the point of annoying, BUT 3 of their advertisers are in the business of selling bullion, mainly gold. Perhaps with all the fakes coming out of China and the fact that they don't hide this, maybe this channel would be interested in learning about how simple it is to be scammed and how sites like eBay look away. If I had the fakes ( fortunately I don't ) - I would volunteer, so perhaps Lawrence as a well-established and knowledgeable expert, you could pick up the baton !!! ??
 

[LawrenceChard]

45 minutes ago, Pete said:

Thank you for sharing your views and perhaps the start of an official section on the forum.

I am utterly amazed at how China can manufacture replicas of gold and silver coins, many of which are categorised as "legal tender" by various governments.
Now I know that a silver Maple with a $5 face value isn't going to be spent in McDonalds BUT the base material or silver plated Chinese replica is 100% copying every nook and cranny on the original coin. Without the knowledge or ability to test and compare, a novice ( or maybe even many forum members ) would definitely be conned but on eBay might have paid near to the price of a genuine 9999 silver coin. This person, not knowing he/she bought a "pup" makes the honest mistake of selling it on and so the coin gets into circulation.

Two points to make -

1. Why are trading standards, Mints or official bodies not clamping down on these counterfeits ?
If I photocopied £50 notes and listed them for sale I would probably be sent to jail in under a month.

2. When obvious fakes are reported to eBay they don't remove them or ban the seller despite their terms & conditions.

Trading standards regularly stop the import of counterfeit designer goods like bags, perfumes and sports apparel so why not precious metal bullion ?

I have a suggestion for @LawrenceChard or @BackyardBullion with his great Youtube videos, or anyone else who has fakes in hand.
The new UK TV channel called GBNews ( channel 515 on SKY ) is breaking the mold in reporting and bringing to the public attention many interesting topics which our political elite and mainstream news channels seem to hide under the carpet. Since they are still relatively young they are relying on only a few advertisers, so adverts are repeated ad-infinitum to the point of annoying, BUT 3 of their advertisers are in the business of selling bullion, mainly gold. Perhaps with all the fakes coming out of China and the fact that they don't hide this, maybe this channel would be interested in learning about how simple it is to be scammed and how sites like eBay look away. If I had the fakes ( fortunately I don't ) - I would volunteer, so perhaps Lawrence as a well-established and knowledgeable expert, you could pick up the baton !!! ??
 

"Now I know that a silver Maple with a $5 face value isn't going to be spent in McDonalds"

Now there's a new challenge for Julian "Brett" Chamberlain!

"1. Why are trading standards, Mints or official bodies not clamping down on these counterfeits ?"

Too busy, understaffed, can't be arsed 😎

"If I photocopied £50 notes and listed them for sale I would probably be sent to jail in under a month."

I think you should try it. If it works, we'll all join in, if not, we (TSF members) will vouch for it having been an experiment in the public interest (but you might have to buy us a few beers).

"2. When obvious fakes are reported to eBay they don't remove them or ban the seller despite their terms & conditions."

Ebay don't give a ****, they are too busy making too much money (for now).

"Trading standards regularly stop the import of counterfeit designer goods like bags, perfumes and sports apparel so why not precious metal bullion ?"

See above, but also Gucci, LVMH, Nike, have expensive lawyers making more noise.

I hadn't thought about GBNews, although I suppose I ought to look, even if it to check out the coin and bullion adverts.

If we were to target scammers, GBNews' bullion advertisers may be implicated or negatively impacted.

"so perhaps Lawrence as a well-established and knowledgeable expert, you could pick up the baton !!! ??"

Flattery will get you almost everywhere.

I have invested a lot of time and energy over many years trying to create awareness of scams, and I am still doing so.

I suspect the Chinese governments attitude to imitations of foreign coins is similar to Russia's attitude to banning the use of polonium and Novichok.

I don't have a huge gripe against the Chinese producers, and I notice that all ot most of the sellers on AliExpress are very open and transparent about the fact that what they make and sell are copies.

Neither do I blame anyone who buys them for interest, their collection, for educational purposes, etc.

The real bad guys here are the plethora of small wheeler dealer individuals who flog them on ebay and elsewhere, with deceptive and untransparent descriptions, even if they are only asking £3 or £4 each, but more so if they are trying for higher prices (think £40 or £400), hoping to catch another sucker.

I also don't have complete sympathy for the greedy and often stupid people who fall for the above conmen.

So I did pick up the baton many years ago, and am still carrying it, but am happy to share, or even pass it on.

Some of the above may sound critical of your input, but I do actually appreciate it. I do wish a few more fellow dealers would join in.

 

[sovereignsteve]

5 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

I do wish a few more fellow dealers would join in.

I have had thoughts along these lines for a while now. To my mind it is very short sighted of dealers not to be fighting the ever increasing problem of fakes, and Chinese fakes in particular.

I have observed the steady escalation of this problem over the past few years with dismay. I used to buy quite a few coins on ebay but this has been steadily reducing over time.

I see many of these fakes being bought on ebay, no doubt many will be resold and the really good fakes will become part of the total coin supply. I say this because I have observed an increasing problem with some dealers selling these fakes, presumably unwittingly, either because don't have the expertise or the will to detect them.

I have also seen a couple of suspicious coins for sale on prominent auctions sites. I couldn't say for sure as I only had the supplied photos to make a decision.

This situation can only harm the hobby by disheartening genuine collectors who perhaps don't have the knowledge they need, with an inevitable decline in the hobby as a whole.

The dealers are the ones who will lose out.

[LawrenceChard]

10 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

I have had thoughts along these lines for a while now. To my mind it is very short sighted of dealers not to be fighting the ever increasing problem of fakes, and Chinese fakes in particular.

I have observed the steady escalation of this problem over the past few years with dismay. I used to buy quite a few coins on ebay but this has been steadily reducing over time.

I see many of these fakes being bought on ebay, no doubt many will be resold and the really good fakes will become part of the total coin supply. I say this because I have observed an increasing problem with some dealers selling these fakes, presumably unwittingly, either because don't have the expertise or the will to detect them.

I have also seen a couple of suspicious coins for sale on prominent auctions sites. I couldn't say for sure as I only had the supplied photos to make a decision.

This situation can only harm the hobby by disheartening genuine collectors who perhaps don't have the knowledge they need, with an inevitable decline in the hobby as a whole.

The dealers are the ones who will lose out.

We probably all will.

By "we" I mean the coin and numismatic community as a whole.

On the other hand, the slabbing companies will probably do very well out of it. Whether this is good or bad is a matter of opinion.

[Pete]

33 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

We probably all will.

By "we" I mean the coin and numismatic community as a whole.

On the other hand, the slabbing companies will probably do very well out of it. Whether this is good or bad is a matter of opinion.

Out of interest - if you sent one of the better fakes for grading would PCGS or NGC detect it as a fake ?
I would have imagined all they do is examine the coin under a magnifier and assess surface condition, quality of strike etc but not alloy content.
I might be unfair here but do the graders of regular bullion check for authenticity ?

[LawrenceChard]

31 minutes ago, Pete said:

Out of interest - if you sent one of the better fakes for grading would PCGS or NGC detect it as a fake ?
I would have imagined all they do is examine the coin under a magnifier and assess surface condition, quality of strike etc but not alloy content.
I might be unfair here but do the graders of regular bullion check for authenticity ?

I would sincerely hope so!

In fact, yes I am quite sure they would, but in the 1970s, a new "breed" of fake rare coins entered the market, and many were undetected for a few years. These are believed to have been made in Beirut, and many were distributed worldwide by an American called Harry Stock. Many international expert dealers and auction houses were fooled.

I mention them in this old page: https://24carat.co.uk/frame.php?url=counterfeitcoins.html

Because fake detection and authenticy checking is largely a matter of experience, I am sure that the major slabbing companies do work to very high standards, and are very reliable, but...

Nobody is infallible, and we are all subject to human error.

I was recently informed that part of the standard Terms and Conditions used by the grading companies includes a non-disclosure element, so that if they mis-grade, mis-identify, or mis-authenticate anything, their customer could face severe legal penalties if they blew the whistle. Any TSF members who have had any coins slabbed may be able to confirm this, unless that is also covered by an NDA.

When you say "do the graders of regular bullion check for authenticity ?", it is somewhat ambiguous. Most bullion does not get third-party graded or slabbed. If you meant to ask do bullion dealers check for fakes, then I can speak for myself and Chards, yes, very carefully. I also hope that all or most other bullion dealers also check, but I am well aware from repeated experience that some of them sell fakes, and don't seem to have much expertise or experience in detecting and filtering them. One even states "we use XRF analysers to ensure our gold and silver coins and bars are genuine." This made me laugh, roll my eyes, and more. It is naive to believe that an XRF test can guarantee a coin is genuine, and to publically state this as a fact is even more revealing. Sure an XRF machine can and does detect most fakes. It is a useful tool. We use one at Chards. It provides a quick method of  checking the metal alloy content, but that's all. It does mean that non-expert staff can detect most fakes quickly. I use it for a quick second opinion on coins which look doubtful. This helps me filter which coins I examine more closely. I also use it for education and research into the exact alloys used for British gold sovereigns, amongst other things.

I have previousy reported discovering fakes, sometimes quite obvious ones, in batches of bullion sovereigns we have sourced from respected (including by me) European dealers. We usually photograph the fakes, and document them for our supplier's education. 

I have also been asked to check or authenticate gold sovereigns and other coins bought from UK dealers and jewellers (they are the worst). Again, we photograph and document the coins. This gives us some market intelligence on our competitors. In these cases, it is not our standard procedure to inform the dealer, although I would do so if it was one who I considered to be a trustworthy expert. It is not my job to train and educate our less respected competitors.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[sovereignsteve]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

Out of interest - if you sent one of the better fakes for grading would PCGS or NGC detect it as a fake

They should do. For one main reason; they guarantee any coins they grade, if they are subsequently identified as fake, at full market value. You generally find that potential financial penalties tend to focus the mind😉

3 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

I was recently informed that part of the standard Terms and Conditions used by the grading companies includes a non-disclosure element, so that if they mis-grade, mis-identify, or mis-authenticate anything, their customer could face severe legal penalties if they blew the whistle.

I wasn't aware of this, but there again, that could confirm it's existence😄

[LawrenceChard]

1825 - 1855 Russian Fantasy Memorial Ruble - Chinese Fake

This has the general appearance of a Russian silver rouble, but I can find no reference to a similar coin, which may help to explain why I have not seen one before. In that case, this is a "fantasy" coin produced from the imagination of its Chinese creator, in the style of a commemorative, as Nicholas reigned from 1825 to 1855. (But see below).

and Reverse:

I have been rather lazy, and have only made a half-hearted attempt at reading the Cyrillic inscrption. I can see the first word is clearly Nikolai or Nicholas, followed by I (one - easy), then Imperator (Emperor).  (But see below).

It's getting, anyone care to help out? 🙂

The Niton XRF test showed a similar alloy to that of the other recent imitation "silver" coins:

The weight in carats is 132.039 equal to 26.41 grams, which is too heavy for a ruble.

I may be wrong about any part of my "identification".

As it only cost about £1 plus £1.40 postage, I feel I don't need to worry too much about an exact identification. It is possibly a copy of a rare non-circulating piece.

Thanks to @CollectForFun's sleuthing, and Numista, I can now add:

That it's a fantasy piece dreamt up by International Numismatic Agency (I.N.A.), and copied by some Chinese.

Obverse inscription:

В.М.НИКОLАИ I ИМПЕРАТОРЪ И САМОДЕРЖЕЦЪ ВСЕРОСС.
1825
1855

Translation:
By God’s grace Nikolai I Emperor and Autocrat of all Russia

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by LawrenceChard

[LawrenceChard]

On 01/10/2021 at 10:52, Bruce06 said:

Thanks for sharing, and agree pricha that the 1902 Crown is hard to tell its authenticity from photo.  If it's selling at few pounds only, then you will know it's fake.  But if someone sell it at let say GBP40 and grade it VF, then you may regard details of the mane and head are worn only.  The only obvious suspicious to me is beads at the top of the obverse side.  Anyway, it's a good fake, and I admit I am not experience enough to tell from pictures. 

May I know if it's with lettering DECUS ET TUTAMEN ANNO REGNI II on edge?

 

On 01/10/2021 at 12:20, LawrenceChard said:

Ah!.

Doug must have forgotten to shoot the edges.

I think it says 

" II 國度的美麗與保護 "

but I will check.

Being serious again for a few seconds, yes I think the edge is lettered. Quite a few people at @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer have had a look at these already, and I heard some approving comments about edges, although it might have been about different coins.

 

Now I'm really glad you asked. It says:

DECUS ANNO REGNI ET TUTAMEN II

😎

Of course, this is incorrect, demonstrating that some Chinese are not actually very good at copying, despite having lots of practice and experience. Perhaps whoever did the copying had also taken up Scrabble, or perhaps this is an example of "Chinese Whispers".

One other remote possibility is that they copied an extremely rare error coin, worth a fortune.

One very distinct probability is that before too long one of these fakes will appear on ebay described as an extremely rare minting error valued at £Mega, starting price only £9.99, or buy two and get frre postage.

😎

Here's a composite image of the edge inscription:

Looking rather eccentric!

 

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by LawrenceChard
addendum

[CollectForFun]

On 02/10/2021 at 23:14, LawrenceChard said:

1825 - 1855 Russian Fantasy Memorial Ruble - Chinese Fake

This has the general appearance of a Russian silver rouble, but I can find no reference to a similar coin, which may help to explain why I have not seen one before. In that case, this is a "fantasy" coin produced from the imagination of its Chinese creator, in the style of a commemorative, as Nicholas reigned from 1825 to 1855.

and Reverse:

I have been rather lazy, and have only made a half-hearted attempt at reading the Cyrillic inscrption. I can see the first word is clearly Nikolai or Nicholas, followed by I (one - easy), then Imperator (Emperor).

It's getting, anyone care to help out? 🙂

The Niton XRF test showed a similar alloy to that of the other recent imitation "silver" coins:

The weight in carats is 132.039 equal to 26.41 grams, which is too heavy for a ruble.

I may be wrong about any part of my "identification".

As it only cost about £1 plus £1.40 postage, I feel I don't need to worry too much about an exact identification. It is possibly a copy of a rare non-circulating piece.

 

 

 

 

It's on Numista over here: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/exonumia174378.html

What I found is that it's supposed to be a fantasy issue by International Numismatic Agency. I have no idea what that is but in any case seems very weird that even something like that gets faked in China...

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, CollectForFun said:

It's on Numista over here: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/exonumia174378.html

What I found is that it's supposed to be a fantasy issue by International Numismatic Agency. I have no idea what that is but in any case seems very weird that even something like that gets faked in China...

Thanks for finding it!

International Numismatic Agency (I.N.A.) is a small private company, almost a one-man band, which dreams up coin designs, some of which get a country's name on them, with official approval, rather like a smaller version of London Mint Office, and The Commonweath Mint. 

I agree with you that it is quite funny that the Chinese copy a non-existent coin design. It's a compliment in one sense to the creativity of the I.N.A. designer.