Do i cut my losses?

[sixgun]

3 minutes ago, Robda1986 said:

Hi I understand you not being able to give a rough time frame for delivery due to the fluctuations in supply. As you have stated you could get 500 in 1 day and nothing the next I'm just concerned given the order is only 3 sovereigns and you haven't been able to sauce them in a month. An offer of £310 per sov isn't possible unfortunately. As I'd be looking at a minimum of £20 extra to replace them. I'll give it 7 days before I look at proceeding with a charge back from my bank. For items not dispatched for delivery 

From the bits i can see of the contract you entered - you will be in breach of that contract if you move to cancel. 

[Robda1986]

5 minutes ago, sixgun said:

From the bits i can see of the contract you entered - you will be in breach of that contract if you move to cancel. 

From what I can see I'm dammed either way their not going to send me them given their charging more for them in premium. I'm not falling for a bait and switch scam by paying them more in a premium and their offer is melt value and I doubt they will refund the p&p

[sixgun]

2 minutes ago, Robda1986 said:

From what I can see I'm dammed either way their not going to send me them given their charging more for them in premium. I'm not falling for a bait and switch scam by paying them more in a premium and their offer is melt value and I doubt they will refund the p&p

If you sit tight, is your buy price fixed? - we are just talking about an unknown delivery date?

[silenceissilver]

If they haven't delivered they don't have it and thus didn't buy it and thus they had no costs yet they want the dealer's  margin for selling it to you and buying it back to you? It's clear if they can't source it at some point the purchase gets void. If it's not in the terms and conditions at some point at court it should come down to boni mores. It don't know what time frame would be considered to stretch boni mores at court but if it was my decision to make, I would put it to 3 months with such a yet-to-be-sourced contract in the bullion coin market.

[Robda1986]

Unknown if the buyback offer is fixed as their now not replying to my last email pointing out how small the order was and that my local pawn/ jewellery shop can get me them in and bbp have them in stock. glad I kept it small I was umming and awwing about ordering 10 given the price at the time but it being the first time dealing with them. Think I dodged a sizable bullet 

[sixgun]

i agree with @silenceissilver there has to come a point where it would be unreasonable to wait longer.
In the T&C's it says they aim to dispatch within 48 hours of receiving cleared funds. This isn't a guaranteed but it gives the customer a clear indication of the timeframe.

The price is fixed. At some point they'll get a coin in. It is not in Chards advantage to hang around - gold could shoot up and they'll lose on the deal.
You have no right of cancellation and if you do the terms of the buy back are on the webpage.

Personally i would be sitting tight. Chards is going nowhere. The coins would be going into my stack and i'd have forgotten about them in a few weeks.

[Roy]

I thought we'd gone past 'Trial by Forum'?

@LawrenceChard is a member, give him the option to respond.

As I understand it, you've bought the coins but have yet to take delivery?

With the antics of the Royal Mail lately, you're probably best waiting for a delivery when they are not so under pressure or else you're likely to get it chucked over a gate and signed by Mr. C.O.Vid. 

[Kman]

Running something like this seems like a magnet for complaints and it's hard to say they aren't deserved

 

 

[sovereignsteve]

As Roy points out, we have had this specific discussion or "trial" before. I do think the last time, someone from Chards came on here and said they would be revising this aspect.

It is one way they do business and IIRC the terms are clearly spelled out.
Most people do not want to buy this way but if you chose to then it's up to you.

Personally, I don't see why they can't refund you unless they have hedged this sale at the prevailing spot price at the time. I doubt they will have due to it being a small order.
Otherwise they will be buying "your" sovereigns at a lower price than you paid, so won't lose out.

It shouldn't really be an issue for a few bullion sovereigns, it's unlikely you will be inconvenienced by having to wait a few weeks. Spot has fallen so we can assume you won't have wanted to sell.

[Spence098]

I personally spoke to someone at chards to ask about sovs and how long the delivery time would be and the lady told me " we can not give you a delivery date it could potentially take up to a year it just depends on when we can source the product " I struggle to see how it can take a fairly big dealer that long to source sovereigns but what do I know !!!

[Robda1986]

Fundamentally my issue is simple. 

I bought sovereigns at a low premium. Paid in full Inc delivery cost. Expecting to get delivery after a max of 2 weeks, after they get some in (its 3 sovereigns I can go to my local pawn/jewelers and pick up 10 if I felt so inclined to pay the premium he's asking so their not hard to come buy) 

Since ordering the premium on physical has shot up whilst spot has stayed the same or fallen so instead of sending my order when coins come in they have been listing them with the inflated premiums on their website trying to maximise their profits. 

[Spence098]

2 minutes ago, Robda1986 said:

Fundamentally my issue is simple. 

I bought sovereigns at a low premium. Paid in full Inc delivery cost. Expecting to get delivery after a max of 2 weeks, after they get some in (its 3 sovereigns I can go to my local pawn/jewelers and pick up 10 if I felt so inclined to pay the premium he's asking so their not hard to come buy) 

Since ordering the premium on physical has shot up whilst spot has stayed the same or fallen so instead of sending my order when coins come in they have been listing them with the inflated premiums on their website trying to maximise their profits. 

Thats not on !!!! Surely they're not holding up their end of the contract 🤥

[Robda1986]

Ats bbp Atkinson none of them have supply issues 🤔

[Robda1986]

And chards 🤔and their waiting on suppliers yea really looks out of stock 

[Spence098]

I ordered 4 from atkinsons 2 weeks ago they arrived withing 4/5 days.

I then ordered some other bits and it now says 5-10 days so hoping they will arrive next week.

They even called me to tell me that delivery would take a little longer than usual as they were very busy.

No issues what so ever !!!

 

[Robda1986]

Just now, Spence098 said:

I ordered 4 from atkinsons 2 weeks ago they arrived withing 4/5 days.

I then ordered some other bits and it now says 5-10 days so hoping they will arrive next week.

They even called me to tell me that delivery would take a little longer than usual as they were very busy.

No issues what so ever !!!

 

I Won't make the same mistake again I'll just stick to ats or bbp

[Shep]

But the fundamental point is that you chose  to buy the out of stock but “orderable”-  “Gold Sovereign Coin Best Value - Secondary Market” option, I’m assuming?

All the other options you have listed are typically more expensive. I’m guessing you didn’t choose those options at the time because you wanted to pay the lowest premium possible.

That benefit of buying the lowest premium sovereigns came with the risk of no delivery time frame being given due to them being out of stock - Chards openly state that and you still chose to buy those sovereigns. I don’t see how you could argue you expected delivery after two weeks when it says that nowhere. I do agree with earlier points that there ought to be a maximum timeframe for delivery stated.

@Robda1986I will say that I also agree with your point about the listing of what are perceived to be “premium” bullion sovereigns while orders are left unfulfilled. On the face of it that would probably hack me off as well.

[Robda1986]

58 minutes ago, Shep said:

But the fundamental point is that you chose  to buy the out of stock but “orderable”-  “Gold Sovereign Coin Best Value - Secondary Market” option, I’m assuming?

All the other options you have listed are typically more expensive. I’m guessing you didn’t choose those options at the time because you wanted to pay the lowest premium possible.

That benefit of buying the lowest premium sovereigns came with the risk of no delivery time frame being given due to them being out of stock - Chards openly state that and you still chose to buy those sovereigns. I don’t see how you could argue you expected delivery after two weeks when it says that nowhere. I do agree with earlier points that there ought to be a maximum timeframe for delivery stated.

@Robda1986I will say that I also agree with your point about the listing of what are perceived to be “premium” bullion sovereigns while orders are left unfulfilled. On the face of it that would probably hack me off as well.

I just think they should honour their prior orders before trying to milk the hell out of the premiums. I get the whole no delivery time frame but I just find it insulting their flat out lying about the reasons for not sending items I've paid upfront for 

[Coolsmp]

When contracts like this are made they usually favour one party over the other that being the dealer and its usually the customer who pays the ultimate price and loses out. Chards (Lawrence) have been an active member on the silver forum promoting their business and many would have bought from them due that and their reputation. It would be good to hear from them in relation to this issue and how it is going to be resolved.

[KevjustKev]

I was about to post something very much the same, about the same dealer.

Ordered a 2020 double Sov on the 3rd, yes I knew there was going to be a wait on delivery, no trouble. About an hour a go I check on the status. Awaiting Stock!

Doesn't say anything about that even now on their website when the double sov page comes up

[Darr3nG]

When you select an 'Orderable' coin and attempt to add it to your basket, you are presented with the following:

"As we source these coins you have requested from both private investors and companies we are unable to provide an estimated delivery date for this product. If you wish to continue with your order the price will be fixed at the current live rate and we will keep you up to date via email.

The items you purchase remain yours with you being free to sell them back to us or switch to an in-stock product at any time. If you do switch products there will either be a balance to pay or a refund dependent upon premiums on the day.

We have been in business for over 50 years as an extremely reputable bullion dealer and we are confident we will be able to fulfil any orders we accept, albeit with longer delivery times than usual. Please note any investment products are non-refundable."

You must then select one of the following options:

• Check this box to acknowledge that there is an indefinite wait until my order is fulfilled.
• Check this box to be offered a dated product with a shorter lead time. Alternatively, I wish to remove this item from my basket.

Assuming you did opt for an 'Orderable' coin, then I believe all the necessary information has been shared and choice to continue sits with you, the buyer.

1. They state they cannot provide an estimated delivery date
2. Any change (sell-back or product switch) will be based based on the daily premium, not the original buy price
3. To continue you must acknowledge an indefinite wait time (I don't know the legality around an indefinite wait time, but you must select this, to continue.)
4. They offer an alternative "dated product" with a shorter lead (I assume this will possibly come at a higher premium)

 

[Swampy]

‘Do I cut my losses?’

No.  Sit tight - they’ll turn up and it will be fine.  Don’t give your cash away by selling back because you’re p!$$£9. 

Most of us prefer to have our PM in reach, you don’t have yours, and you probably feel as if you’ve lost cash too because it’s left your account, and it’s all rather uncomfortable.   

It will be fine!

[Robda1986]

6 minutes ago, Swampy said:

‘Do I cut my losses?’

No.  Sit tight - they’ll turn up and it will be fine.  Don’t give your cash away by selling back because you’re p!$$£9. 

Most of us prefer to have our PM in reach, you don’t have yours, and you probably feel as if you’ve lost cash too because it’s left your account, and it’s all rather uncomfortable.   

It will be fine!

I don't want to sell especially to them. The issue I'm having is I don't trust them to actually send my coins. I get seriously annoyed being flat out lied to especially when it's so blatant. Being out of stock is one thing but their not 

[Lyrinn]

I've bought from Chards before, not had any issues with them in the past and I have no complaints at all. Case in point, I bought a gold 2021 sov two weeks ago from them and recently got an email. See attached snip. Sure you'll get one shortly too, given the timeframe.

I'm sure someone smarter than I on the forums could make a humurous link between people who collect PM's and doom's day preppers; we're both expecting things to go "uh oh, spaghettio

" at any moment, so, paitence sucks when all you want is your gold in your hand.

Best advice? Look around the forums and plan your next purchase to keep your mind busy. Or do what I do, go look at the 5kg silver bars other members display and realise that looking at photos is probably as close as you'll get for the next decade. Window shopping all over again...

[Paul]

8 minutes ago, Darr3nG said:

When you select an 'Orderable' coin and attempt to add it to your basket, you are presented with the following:

"As we source these coins you have requested from both private investors and companies we are unable to provide an estimated delivery date for this product. If you wish to continue with your order the price will be fixed at the current live rate and we will keep you up to date via email.

The items you purchase remain yours with you being free to sell them back to us or switch to an in-stock product at any time. If you do switch products there will either be a balance to pay or a refund dependent upon premiums on the day.

We have been in business for over 50 years as an extremely reputable bullion dealer and we are confident we will be able to fulfil any orders we accept, albeit with longer delivery times than usual. Please note any investment products are non-refundable."

You must then select one of the following options:

• Check this box to acknowledge that there is an indefinite wait until my order is fulfilled.
• Check this box to be offered a dated product with a shorter lead time. Alternatively, I wish to remove this item from my basket.

Assuming you did opt for an 'Orderable' coin, then I believe all the necessary information has been shared and choice to continue sits with you, the buyer.

1. They state they cannot provide an estimated delivery date
2. Any change (sell-back or product switch) will be based based on the daily premium, not the original buy price
3. To continue you must acknowledge an indefinite wait time (I don't know the legality around an indefinite wait time, but you must select this, to continue.)
4. They offer an alternative "dated product" with a shorter lead (I assume this will possibly come at a higher premium)

 

Still a darn stupid way to operate a business IMO - its "selling stuff you don't have" plain and simple, when you do away with the flowery language 

It is almost guaranteeing an unpleasant client experience, most likely will generate follow up emails/calls and lead to threads on the internet like this appearing, that will stay etched in history forever highlighting this somewhat shady practice to many other potential/new clients