Pete

I read this differently.
If you have spare cash you ain't going to be able to buy diddly squat !!
These people are buying ( not selling ) your unwanted gold and it would be interesting to see what they would offer for a sovereign or a 1 ounce gold Britannia then compare on-line, on the day, with the likes of HGM

The last platinum ( 1 ounce ) in the Queens Beasts series - assuming there isn't a "Completer" to follow - is currently in stock at the Royal Mint.
Bit the bullet, paid the Sheriff of Nottingham his 20% tax, and ordered expecting in a day or so.
I did contemplate pre-ordering from Chards to save a few pounds only, but as they were in stock at the RM I am guaranteed to have it in hand very shortly.

I read this differently.
If you have spare cash you ain't going to be able to buy diddly squat !!
These people are buying ( not selling ) your unwanted gold and it would be interesting to see what they would offer for a sovereign or a 1 ounce gold Britannia then compare on-line, on the day, with the likes of HGM

The way I see it with older sovereigns and half sovereigns is that there was a period until relatively recently ( maybe 8 years ago ) where most gold coins sent to bullion dealers e.g. HGM were simply melted. Since then bullion buyers saw the opportunity to gain a few extra percentage points over scrap metal by selling back their coins. The market for gold coins rapidly grew and dealers started advertising on TV and forums like this spread the word. More suppliers came on the market and with on-line shopping these coins were deemed more valuable than just their weight in precious metals. Therefore the loss of older coins essentially ended say 5 - 8 years ago and few are now sent to their grave.
Who has all the coins ?
Dealers want to shift inventory so I assume the bulk is with private investors like us.
Governments, banks and any other institutions tend to hold good delivery bars so coins aren't of interest.
Private investors will fall in to several categories -
(a) older wise savers and investors probably well past retirement and holding their loot for their 'middle-ageing' kids or grandchildrens' inheritance.
(b) middle aged people who are about to inherit their treasure and will most likely sell to get a quick return. Most will not know any better than to sell to 'we buy any gold' and I guess these buyers of gold will sell on to the bigger bullion dealers who in turn will keep the coins for the resale market.
(c) others e.g. forum members who believe the slow ramp in scarcity will ensure not only growth in value due to demand and rareity but also a steady increase in spot of gold.
Personally I believe there are not as many Victorian sovereigns as later era based on the assumption that category (a) has already seen 2 generation cycles and maybe also (b).
Looking at the prices being asked by most sellers, a higher price would definitely attract more sellers from (b) and sometimes (c). Many dealers seem unable to shift their often overpriced coins so maybe (c) is sitting on the fence.

Looking back the best time to have purchased reverse shields was 8 - 10 years ago before the bullion dealers saw new demand for collectible coins rather than just any piece of old gold.
Figuring out the numbers will be impossible I'm afraid.
 

The way I see it with older sovereigns and half sovereigns is that there was a period until relatively recently ( maybe 8 years ago ) where most gold coins sent to bullion dealers e.g. HGM were simply melted. Since then bullion buyers saw the opportunity to gain a few extra percentage points over scrap metal by selling back their coins. The market for gold coins rapidly grew and dealers started advertising on TV and forums like this spread the word. More suppliers came on the market and with on-line shopping these coins were deemed more valuable than just their weight in precious metals. Therefore the loss of older coins essentially ended say 5 - 8 years ago and few are now sent to their grave.
Who has all the coins ?
Dealers want to shift inventory so I assume the bulk is with private investors like us.
Governments, banks and any other institutions tend to hold good delivery bars so coins aren't of interest.
Private investors will fall in to several categories -
(a) older wise savers and investors probably well past retirement and holding their loot for their 'middle-ageing' kids or grandchildrens' inheritance.
(b) middle aged people who are about to inherit their treasure and will most likely sell to get a quick return. Most will not know any better than to sell to 'we buy any gold' and I guess these buyers of gold will sell on to the bigger bullion dealers who in turn will keep the coins for the resale market.
(c) others e.g. forum members who believe the slow ramp in scarcity will ensure not only growth in value due to demand and rareity but also a steady increase in spot of gold.
Personally I believe there are not as many Victorian sovereigns as later era based on the assumption that category (a) has already seen 2 generation cycles and maybe also (b).
Looking at the prices being asked by most sellers, a higher price would definitely attract more sellers from (b) and sometimes (c). Many dealers seem unable to shift their often overpriced coins so maybe (c) is sitting on the fence.

Looking back the best time to have purchased reverse shields was 8 - 10 years ago before the bullion dealers saw new demand for collectible coins rather than just any piece of old gold.
Figuring out the numbers will be impossible I'm afraid.
 

The way I see it with older sovereigns and half sovereigns is that there was a period until relatively recently ( maybe 8 years ago ) where most gold coins sent to bullion dealers e.g. HGM were simply melted. Since then bullion buyers saw the opportunity to gain a few extra percentage points over scrap metal by selling back their coins. The market for gold coins rapidly grew and dealers started advertising on TV and forums like this spread the word. More suppliers came on the market and with on-line shopping these coins were deemed more valuable than just their weight in precious metals. Therefore the loss of older coins essentially ended say 5 - 8 years ago and few are now sent to their grave.
Who has all the coins ?
Dealers want to shift inventory so I assume the bulk is with private investors like us.
Governments, banks and any other institutions tend to hold good delivery bars so coins aren't of interest.
Private investors will fall in to several categories -
(a) older wise savers and investors probably well past retirement and holding their loot for their 'middle-ageing' kids or grandchildrens' inheritance.
(b) middle aged people who are about to inherit their treasure and will most likely sell to get a quick return. Most will not know any better than to sell to 'we buy any gold' and I guess these buyers of gold will sell on to the bigger bullion dealers who in turn will keep the coins for the resale market.
(c) others e.g. forum members who believe the slow ramp in scarcity will ensure not only growth in value due to demand and rareity but also a steady increase in spot of gold.
Personally I believe there are not as many Victorian sovereigns as later era based on the assumption that category (a) has already seen 2 generation cycles and maybe also (b).
Looking at the prices being asked by most sellers, a higher price would definitely attract more sellers from (b) and sometimes (c). Many dealers seem unable to shift their often overpriced coins so maybe (c) is sitting on the fence.

Looking back the best time to have purchased reverse shields was 8 - 10 years ago before the bullion dealers saw new demand for collectible coins rather than just any piece of old gold.
Figuring out the numbers will be impossible I'm afraid.
 

I reiterate what earlier folks have stated.
Once you have added in any shipping costs then do a comparison on the day you plan to make a purchase.
Prices do vary and I suspect based on inventory and the movement in spot.
When prices are rising people will sell and when prices fall people will buy.
Therefore when prices appear "cheap" you will not find any for sale as they are snapped up.
I used to regularly purchase from HGM when you could find sovereigns at 2% over spot but they have morphed in to a coin shop with higher margins rather than a FIFO bullion dealer where the morning receipts are shipped out in the evening post.

I think their analysis is biassed for obvious marketing purposes.
It shows gold outperforming property by almost double.
Twenty years ago if you bought a chunk of gold it would have cost you £200 per ounce.
Today it has increased in value by about a factor of 6
I checked house prices in my area and over the same period the price of property has also increased by about a factor of 5.
Maybe taking an average of property prices over the entire country this figure would be a lot less and nearer to their graph.
That's the big problem with selective charts without underlying data as you can always find statistics in various categories with wide exceptions that support or oppositely counteract your argument.
Gold could take a dive of 10% tomorrow but your house is more likely to go up.

You are absolutely right - timing is everything.
Picking the winning lottery numbers a few seconds after the results are announced is very simple.

The problem is however that you cannot forecast the future price of any commodity.
Buying natural gas a few months ago would have been nice !

At the time silver was meteorically rising to £30 per ounce, the world's "experts" and PM bloggers were emailing and YouTubing how silver was heading much, much higher, so get in while you can.
Predictions of over £100 per ounce were not unrealistic - then the bubble burst.
The world was running out of silver, the cost of mining rising and China was buying it all up - so we were all led to believe at the time.
Following the herd springs to mind but what else can you do ?
Hindsight is marvellous.

Look back to the start of bitcoin and ask yourself if you had bought in the early days how you would be sitting on a fortune today.
On the other hand I know of an old friend who reckoned you could not go wrong buying Brent Crude Oil on the basis that demand was increasing and supply diminishing so a pretty safe bet.
History shows his big investment in Brent was a disaster.
Even diamonds are an investment risk as manmade perfect clarity etc. gem stones can be manufactured relatively cheaply but prices are manipulated under protectionist agreements.
Who would want to invest in diamonds costing £500 rather than £5000 for the mined version ?

I think their analysis is biassed for obvious marketing purposes.
It shows gold outperforming property by almost double.
Twenty years ago if you bought a chunk of gold it would have cost you £200 per ounce.
Today it has increased in value by about a factor of 6
I checked house prices in my area and over the same period the price of property has also increased by about a factor of 5.
Maybe taking an average of property prices over the entire country this figure would be a lot less and nearer to their graph.
That's the big problem with selective charts without underlying data as you can always find statistics in various categories with wide exceptions that support or oppositely counteract your argument.
Gold could take a dive of 10% tomorrow but your house is more likely to go up.

I think their analysis is biassed for obvious marketing purposes.
It shows gold outperforming property by almost double.
Twenty years ago if you bought a chunk of gold it would have cost you £200 per ounce.
Today it has increased in value by about a factor of 6
I checked house prices in my area and over the same period the price of property has also increased by about a factor of 5.
Maybe taking an average of property prices over the entire country this figure would be a lot less and nearer to their graph.
That's the big problem with selective charts without underlying data as you can always find statistics in various categories with wide exceptions that support or oppositely counteract your argument.
Gold could take a dive of 10% tomorrow but your house is more likely to go up.

I think their analysis is biassed for obvious marketing purposes.
It shows gold outperforming property by almost double.
Twenty years ago if you bought a chunk of gold it would have cost you £200 per ounce.
Today it has increased in value by about a factor of 6
I checked house prices in my area and over the same period the price of property has also increased by about a factor of 5.
Maybe taking an average of property prices over the entire country this figure would be a lot less and nearer to their graph.
That's the big problem with selective charts without underlying data as you can always find statistics in various categories with wide exceptions that support or oppositely counteract your argument.
Gold could take a dive of 10% tomorrow but your house is more likely to go up.

Looking back 11 years when I became addicted to silver I was buying one ounce coins for £18 each.
Not the best investment for sure considering the bigger purchases at £30 per ounce later on.
I too would gladly get out but I would loose too much so waiting for the next bubble.
Maybe someone will invent a new battery that requires silver as Lithium will no doubt skyrocket in years to come.
Fortunately other non PM investments have worked out fine cancelling out the pain in silver.
Lesson for all others - diversify and don't get brainwashed in commodities ( sic. slick Youtube "experts" from across the pond mainly ) heading to the moon.

Tarriffs fall into two main categories -
(a) Mafia type of protectionism to your own market
(b) barrier to inferior products and dumping.
By way of examples -
(a) You have an industry in the UK that is inefficient, unproductive, dependent on back to back bail outs but still makes car parts.
Alternative parts available from overseas, possibly better quality and certainly cheaper, you apply a tariff e.g. 50%.
The end user pays for either inefficiently produced parts sourced domestically or pays a high tariff for the privilege of buying imports.
The good foreign producer then looses business but either way the consumer picks up the bill.
The UK manufacturer of the finished product cannot compete because his cost of parts is too high on the open market.
(b) A lot of parts perhaps over produced or rusting in a carpark appear cheap on the market from say India.
The UK buyer sees an opportunity to make his bonus by getting very cheap imports, perhaps even below the cost of manufacture.
Without a high tariff these cheap unsustainable imports mean the usual supplier(s) cannot compete and loose orders causing their factory to close.
Also the parts that were supposed to be made of fine silver turn out to be cupronickel plated with silver and the parts that were allegedly tested for imperfections were not tested so corrode and burn out in months rather than decades ....
We hear mostly about the poor UK sheep farmers when it comes to the trade deal with New Zealand.
I don't have any knowledge of sheep farming but I assume sheep roam the fields and hills eating grass then get culled for meat.
How therefore can New Zealand lamb end up being significantly cheaper than UK lamb bearing in mind the additional cost of transportation half way across the world with the added middlemen ?
I could understand a difference if this was labour intensive and we paid our workers much more than theirs.
We also know that cheap labour means we have lots of products manufactured in China and Asia.
How does this tally with high tech and automation with minimal labour ?
We should be producing flat screen TVs in the UK and not South Korea for example.
These are built by robots in factories that don't even need lighting as there are no people working in the factories.

The new commercial aircraft of the future will have one pilot and a dog in the cockpit.
The pilot's job is to feed the dog and the dog is there to bite the pilot if he dare touch any of the controls.
 

You say " buying as an investment" so is that serious investment, inflation cover or rainy day funds ?
As an investment you need to perhaps limit your spending to less than 20% of your "investment" portfolio.
If a serious investment and that means say £50 - £100k then maybe you should buy silver that remains vaulted and therefore VAT free.
You would be hoping for a rise in spot price and most of us believe silver is presently undervalued and therefore has considerable upside in the longer term.
If more as a hobby or diversification and a much smaller spend then you are buying silver with VAT on top or a premium that essentially has VAT built in.
In the UK you will be paying a higher price than in many parts of the EU.
This however doesn't matter because the price is the market price and if you pay more in the UK you will get more in the UK when selling.
This falls apart however if you sell to any dealer who will not pay a cent over spot and usually not even spot price by weight.
As others have suggested stick to the cheapest common bullion coins and don't get tempted into proofs, graded and novelty coins to start.
Monitor the sales section on this site, including @arshimo2012 for offers and compare with our popular dealers like Atkinsons, Chards, BullionbyPost etc.
You will never get the opportunity to buy cheap silver unless you subscribe to our Premium service as bargains go before you see them but for now keep a note of completed sales to get a feel for the market and which bullion seems a better deal than an other. When purchasing one or two coins only, factor in the costs of shipping which in percentage terms can increase your cost significantly.

To start on this site I suggest after doing some homework you place a "Wanted" entry on the forum stating what you would like to buy and what price you are willing to pay to see if you can tempt any sellers. Your target price has to be realistic however and if you pitch too low you will not get any response. Most on this forum are educated in this stuff and when silver is trading low many will not wish to sell preferring to hold for a higher price later.

Complete to date
Lunar - series II one ounce silver coins in Lindner black leatherette box with a few coloured Lunars & dragon/lion privy 
 
to fill empty spaces.
 

0.5,  1,  2,  5, 10 Oz Lunar Horses ( in nice box )

 
 
0.5,  1,  2,  5, 10 Oz Lunar Snakes ( in nice box )

 

 

Arrived today from the Mint directly less than 48 hours after ordering -
Two QB 2 oz completer with the new 10oz Britannia

 
 

It's a BEAST of a coin ... 1kg fine silver
   

Complete date run of bullion Silver Eagles 1986 to 2017
Centre tray looks toned but this is just lighting when taking the photo.

Tarriffs fall into two main categories -
(a) Mafia type of protectionism to your own market
(b) barrier to inferior products and dumping.
By way of examples -
(a) You have an industry in the UK that is inefficient, unproductive, dependent on back to back bail outs but still makes car parts.
Alternative parts available from overseas, possibly better quality and certainly cheaper, you apply a tariff e.g. 50%.
The end user pays for either inefficiently produced parts sourced domestically or pays a high tariff for the privilege of buying imports.
The good foreign producer then looses business but either way the consumer picks up the bill.
The UK manufacturer of the finished product cannot compete because his cost of parts is too high on the open market.
(b) A lot of parts perhaps over produced or rusting in a carpark appear cheap on the market from say India.
The UK buyer sees an opportunity to make his bonus by getting very cheap imports, perhaps even below the cost of manufacture.
Without a high tariff these cheap unsustainable imports mean the usual supplier(s) cannot compete and loose orders causing their factory to close.
Also the parts that were supposed to be made of fine silver turn out to be cupronickel plated with silver and the parts that were allegedly tested for imperfections were not tested so corrode and burn out in months rather than decades ....
We hear mostly about the poor UK sheep farmers when it comes to the trade deal with New Zealand.
I don't have any knowledge of sheep farming but I assume sheep roam the fields and hills eating grass then get culled for meat.
How therefore can New Zealand lamb end up being significantly cheaper than UK lamb bearing in mind the additional cost of transportation half way across the world with the added middlemen ?
I could understand a difference if this was labour intensive and we paid our workers much more than theirs.
We also know that cheap labour means we have lots of products manufactured in China and Asia.
How does this tally with high tech and automation with minimal labour ?
We should be producing flat screen TVs in the UK and not South Korea for example.
These are built by robots in factories that don't even need lighting as there are no people working in the factories.

The new commercial aircraft of the future will have one pilot and a dog in the cockpit.
The pilot's job is to feed the dog and the dog is there to bite the pilot if he dare touch any of the controls.
 

Tarriffs fall into two main categories -
(a) Mafia type of protectionism to your own market
(b) barrier to inferior products and dumping.
By way of examples -
(a) You have an industry in the UK that is inefficient, unproductive, dependent on back to back bail outs but still makes car parts.
Alternative parts available from overseas, possibly better quality and certainly cheaper, you apply a tariff e.g. 50%.
The end user pays for either inefficiently produced parts sourced domestically or pays a high tariff for the privilege of buying imports.
The good foreign producer then looses business but either way the consumer picks up the bill.
The UK manufacturer of the finished product cannot compete because his cost of parts is too high on the open market.
(b) A lot of parts perhaps over produced or rusting in a carpark appear cheap on the market from say India.
The UK buyer sees an opportunity to make his bonus by getting very cheap imports, perhaps even below the cost of manufacture.
Without a high tariff these cheap unsustainable imports mean the usual supplier(s) cannot compete and loose orders causing their factory to close.
Also the parts that were supposed to be made of fine silver turn out to be cupronickel plated with silver and the parts that were allegedly tested for imperfections were not tested so corrode and burn out in months rather than decades ....
We hear mostly about the poor UK sheep farmers when it comes to the trade deal with New Zealand.
I don't have any knowledge of sheep farming but I assume sheep roam the fields and hills eating grass then get culled for meat.
How therefore can New Zealand lamb end up being significantly cheaper than UK lamb bearing in mind the additional cost of transportation half way across the world with the added middlemen ?
I could understand a difference if this was labour intensive and we paid our workers much more than theirs.
We also know that cheap labour means we have lots of products manufactured in China and Asia.
How does this tally with high tech and automation with minimal labour ?
We should be producing flat screen TVs in the UK and not South Korea for example.
These are built by robots in factories that don't even need lighting as there are no people working in the factories.

The new commercial aircraft of the future will have one pilot and a dog in the cockpit.
The pilot's job is to feed the dog and the dog is there to bite the pilot if he dare touch any of the controls.
 

One thing to remember though buying and selling on any open platform is what happens in the very unlikely event - but nevertheless possible - that a coin is lost in transit.
Unfortunately because this is a rare event and possibly never experienced by most, it will bring out all the hidden terms like making a claim on insurance only to find out in the small print you are likely to fail in your claim. Noting the quality & sensibility of people on the Silver Forum however this is very unlikely to cause concern to most.
Nearly all of us will rely on Royal Mail so it is worth familiarising yourself with their compensation rates for any loss or damage.
Anything of value, say £150 and higher, will be fully protected when using Special Delivery.
There are add-on insurance options to a maximum cover of £2,500.
However for lower value coins and bars, that's why I intuitively chose £150, SD can work out relatively expensive so many will choose a cheaper service like Signed For.
The maximum compensation for loss with Signed For is £50 but in the small print you may hit a problem claiming for precious metals, valuables, coins etc.
This is a grey area because a designer handbag or jeans could be worth £100 and half your loss would likely be compensated but maybe not a £30 silver Britannia.
Arguing that the handbag was more valuable than the coin at one third its value is logical but you will not be dealing with logical people, only people seeing an opportunity to not pay out.
Then the question - in the event of a lost package - who is going to do the work to make a claim and who will ultimately take the hit - the buyer or the seller ?
Be prepared for a long wait for any conclusion as sometimes after raising a claim with the Royal Mail, maybe even 4 weeks or more, surprisingly the package is found and delivered.
Sorting out a claim may run into months.
When a method of postage is agreed then risk of loss should pass on to the buyer provided the seller has proof of postage.
This should show the Royal Mail receipt and the service used.
Do not however depend on package weight because this is not reliable as it is only used in banding to calculate cost and doesn't always backup the weight of the contents.
Post offices regularly accept pre-paid labels and familiarity with packages often means the package isn't weighed at all and the person accepting the package enters an arbitrary weight e.g. 30 g rather than 95g because it doesn't matter up to 100g. Sending 2 ounces of gold SD and getting a receipt with a printed weight of 30g isn't comforting so with high value items I always insist the SD bag is properly weighed at handover. What would you do as a seller if you sent 2 coins and the recipient claims they received only 1 coin and the package weight was 40 g and not 80g. In such a situation it could be argued that you only sent a single coin. Doesn't bear thinking about !!   Trust .. trust.. and more trust.. with private transactions.

Buying goods from businesses however will differ because generally the contract is to guarantee receipt of goods so any loss is down to the seller as they will have separate insurance.
Private sales could become contentious so be prepared and accept any risks.
If I am incorrect in any of the above feel free to comment as hopefully no-one will need to worry, but for peace of mind it is always good to know where you stand.
 

One thing to remember though buying and selling on any open platform is what happens in the very unlikely event - but nevertheless possible - that a coin is lost in transit.
Unfortunately because this is a rare event and possibly never experienced by most, it will bring out all the hidden terms like making a claim on insurance only to find out in the small print you are likely to fail in your claim. Noting the quality & sensibility of people on the Silver Forum however this is very unlikely to cause concern to most.
Nearly all of us will rely on Royal Mail so it is worth familiarising yourself with their compensation rates for any loss or damage.
Anything of value, say £150 and higher, will be fully protected when using Special Delivery.
There are add-on insurance options to a maximum cover of £2,500.
However for lower value coins and bars, that's why I intuitively chose £150, SD can work out relatively expensive so many will choose a cheaper service like Signed For.
The maximum compensation for loss with Signed For is £50 but in the small print you may hit a problem claiming for precious metals, valuables, coins etc.
This is a grey area because a designer handbag or jeans could be worth £100 and half your loss would likely be compensated but maybe not a £30 silver Britannia.
Arguing that the handbag was more valuable than the coin at one third its value is logical but you will not be dealing with logical people, only people seeing an opportunity to not pay out.
Then the question - in the event of a lost package - who is going to do the work to make a claim and who will ultimately take the hit - the buyer or the seller ?
Be prepared for a long wait for any conclusion as sometimes after raising a claim with the Royal Mail, maybe even 4 weeks or more, surprisingly the package is found and delivered.
Sorting out a claim may run into months.
When a method of postage is agreed then risk of loss should pass on to the buyer provided the seller has proof of postage.
This should show the Royal Mail receipt and the service used.
Do not however depend on package weight because this is not reliable as it is only used in banding to calculate cost and doesn't always backup the weight of the contents.
Post offices regularly accept pre-paid labels and familiarity with packages often means the package isn't weighed at all and the person accepting the package enters an arbitrary weight e.g. 30 g rather than 95g because it doesn't matter up to 100g. Sending 2 ounces of gold SD and getting a receipt with a printed weight of 30g isn't comforting so with high value items I always insist the SD bag is properly weighed at handover. What would you do as a seller if you sent 2 coins and the recipient claims they received only 1 coin and the package weight was 40 g and not 80g. In such a situation it could be argued that you only sent a single coin. Doesn't bear thinking about !!   Trust .. trust.. and more trust.. with private transactions.

Buying goods from businesses however will differ because generally the contract is to guarantee receipt of goods so any loss is down to the seller as they will have separate insurance.
Private sales could become contentious so be prepared and accept any risks.
If I am incorrect in any of the above feel free to comment as hopefully no-one will need to worry, but for peace of mind it is always good to know where you stand.
 

Looking back 11 years when I became addicted to silver I was buying one ounce coins for £18 each.
Not the best investment for sure considering the bigger purchases at £30 per ounce later on.
I too would gladly get out but I would loose too much so waiting for the next bubble.
Maybe someone will invent a new battery that requires silver as Lithium will no doubt skyrocket in years to come.
Fortunately other non PM investments have worked out fine cancelling out the pain in silver.
Lesson for all others - diversify and don't get brainwashed in commodities ( sic. slick Youtube "experts" from across the pond mainly ) heading to the moon.