kimchi

i must be lucky.  the one i got from rm was pretty good.  i have by no means put it under a microscope and doubt it would get an ms 70 but there were no easily visible marks, scratches or dents.  or the m word - yet.

Alas this series has been produced to the very lowest possible bullion standard (terrible scratching and milking) that I think it would be very unlikely to find a good example

Alas this series has been produced to the very lowest possible bullion standard (terrible scratching and milking) that I think it would be very unlikely to find a good example

I find it annoying that a lot of sellers edit their listings after they sell an item and remove pricing/details of the original listing. Some even completely edit their listing 2-3 weeks later thinking no one would pay attention and leave it all blank.
You can dispute it and give me a reason for it but I feel it is wrong. If you want members to focus on THE SILVER FORUM rather than dealers to get a "better deal" this approach of removing all details on completed listings shouldn't be encouraged. It definitely won't encourage members to trust or spend more time on TSF compared to dealers. Whether someone has missed out on your listing or not - they may have compared it to a dealer price and you never know they would be encouarged to wait it out for another member on TSF to list the same item or something similar and not immediately purchase it from a dealer at a higher price.
Completed listings help both future sellers and buyers. Moreso new members to the forum.
Also:
Recently I noticed a trait of certain sellers undercutting others. If you find someone has already listed a coin/bar for sale and you want to sell the same thing. Maybe wait for that to be sold then list yours? Especially if they aren't really known to be selling on a regular basis like more seasoned sellers as some of you are. I would classify it as a sign of respect and forum etiquette?
Off course with sovereigns and britannias I don't expect everyone to wait for one listing to be sold then list yours. It's common sense at the end of the day.

Yes! Yes! And Yes!
I agree. It looks like sellers are enshamed with their prices and want to erase any evidences. 
Also, this practice is discouraged by TSF T&C. See Guidelines:
 "6.2.2. The edit post feature is there to allow members to edit mistakes, and for users to update their trade topics; for example when their item(s) has sold, or their price has changed. Currently the system allows members to edit their posts up to 30 days from posting. Members may edit a completed trade listing to remove the sale price should they wish, though we prefer if this wasn't done in order to protect historical data so that members can see what prices similar items sold for. This is very helpful when a member is looking to price their item for sale. Please do not edit out what was sold. "

The Canadian Mint actually only admits that their patented method only ‘reduces’ milk spotting and if it is going to happen then it will just take longer to show.🤔

My 2023 Brits already have really bad milk spots, my 2021 maples still don’t, so even if it takes longer for them to appear at least  it gives me more time to sell them on without taking a hit on the premiums. 

The current thought is that milk spots on silver coins are caused by a flaw in the minting process. The silver coin starts life as a flat circular disk known as a blank or planchet. To prevent the silver coin becoming too brittle, the blank is annealed, which is a process of heating and cooling. Prior to annealing, the blank is cleaned/degreased with solvents and it is thought that sometimes not all of the solvent is removed before the coin is heated, baking an imperfection into the surface of the silver.
The coin emerges from the process looking in perfect condition, but with time (between days and years) the imperfection mutates into a white substance, the dreaded milk spots.
Other theories attain that milk spots can be caused by reaction with certain plastics (like PVC) but it may be that these reactions simply accelerate the appearance of the production flaw.
Milk spots are quite common and the problem is not limited to a single mint. Coins affected include Canadian Maples, America Eagles, British Britannias, Chinese Pandas, Silver Krugerrands and many others, including silver bars.
The real question is can milk spots be removed without damaging the coin? The answer will always lie in the negative as any cleaning of a coin is always detrimental to some extent. Cleaning affects the surface of the coin and there are real dangers that hairlines, micro abrasions or even full scratches will result. Poorly cleaned coins have a habit of 'looking wrong'.
Unfortunately, there is no known way for silver collectors to prevent milk spots. You can maybe help matters by using good quality encapsulation, using only plastics that are known to be safe with coins and then storing coins in a friendly environment.
But if a coin has been flawed in the production process, it will still be liable to develop white spots. This moves the onus back to the mint where the coin was produced and there is action and good news coming from that direction.
The Canadian silver maple was one of the coins that was prone to silver spots and the Royal Canadian Mint invested in considerable research into the causes and eradication of the problem, and have been assisted by the collaboration of a local University. The result is what they call MINTSHIELDTM surface protection. Launched in 2018, this process improvement has greatly reduced the occurrence of milk spots in silver Maples.
The source for the above info is Milk Spots on Silver Coins (britanniacoincompany.com) I thought it was very informative. I'm more in to gold but I have, in silver, mostly poured bars. These don't tend to be affected by the milk spots. I now know why.

I think that's just the angle of the picture and the lighting.

The PR70 (PCGS) will be in late summer unless people select the ‘walkthrough’ or ‘express’ service. The PF70 (NGC) are likely to be much quicker as NGC do not seem to be experiencing the same backlogs as PCGS.

My late father's former union organised and paid for legal action against his employer due to the life-threatening condition he developed due to their working conditions. He would have been pretty powerless otherwise (I'd actually previously engaged another legal firm for him myself who wrongly said his case was hopeless and told us we couldn't proceed).
That said, at the top level the union bosses are all part of the sham 'game' with government. It was all orchestrated in the 70s and 80s to de-power the working men (force a crisis that only affected the people - not the fat cats - and close the coal mines etc).
Exactly the same is happening now (except the unions are even more of a puppet, thanks to Blair and successors taking Maggie's baton) . Unless you think that nurses strikes etc at a time when elderly folk are being told they can't heat and eat is a coincidence - all because of Putin, climate change, and post-covid supply issues, of course
Basically the unions are just another player in the grander scheme of things, but (the way they make them so, otherwise no-one would join) as an individual they can be priceless.

The fact that some old coins would cost more to produce (if produced today) than their face value doesn't necessarily mean that there is money to be made by melting them down, refining them and selling the metals to the market at spot. That whole process takes time, equipment, energy, etc.
You might think that at some point people will start to think that these coins are actually worth more than face value due to their metals and start trading them at above face value like we currently do with bullion coins. I don't see this happening any time soon because, for the reasons given by other posters above, I don't expect stacking copper etc to become popular (certainly not on an amount-of-value-stacked basis).
My guess is if you stack old copper coins with below-spot face value you probably won't lose money but it probably isn't a good use of time, money, storage space, etc that could be better used for other things (opportunity costs).

I have a friend that stacks copper and brass (not quite bronze I know). When he told me I thought, Ummm, don't think that's a good Idea. However, when he continued to tell me what he does. Actually I thought that quite cool. 
He treats it as a pass time and what he has actually managed to create is quite unique. I don't think everyone would be able to do what he's managed to do due to space inside and out. Also his ability to collect the raw material. He works as a handyman and as such he has been able to collect for free copper and brass. He's been doing it for many years. at first it was a case of just store it until there was a nice pile then dash to the scrap yard cash it in. usually end of November, Christmas cash. When he bought the place he's in now, he decided to do something different. he has a large yard that has a number of outbuildings. He turned one of them into an office. 
What he does is, On his down time he melts it in to ingots of about 2 kgs. At first he just stacked them against the wall. But now. he's part way through his design. He has been polishing the ingots. and trying to create a picture of a welsh dragon. the colours are not quite right as he gets more copper than brass so his dragon is gold in colour and the back ground is copper red. Its looks a bit blocky but the wall and the room is big enough that when you stand back it looks quite impressive. Its nowhere near finished and he has a lot to do but he has a drawing of the design as it will look and its pretty good. Its cost him the price of the forge (which he made himself). Time, but he treats it as a pass time. With his biggest cost being the gas. He did say he wished he'd kept a tally of this but its not some thing he's thought of selling, and the copper and brass is free. He did tell my the approximate weight he needs to complete it from how many ingots he needs but I've forgotten, However, Its tonnes. but at worst case scenario he'll have scrap value. Which I think copper is about £6000 a tonne. I'll ask if I can have a picture for the forum.
Back to the question. I don't think stacking generic copper or bronze coins will build up much intrinsic value. Might be nice as a collection and certain coins will have a numismatic value but this is likely fluctuate. Buying the copper rounds and the bars is a big no no. The cost is usually many times the intrinsic value. 

Firstly I have to point out that the vast majority of members are respectful to one another and respect other member's trade topic. So thank you to all of these members.

TSF has a policy against unsolicited comments in other members trade topics. Recently there has been a growing number of posts, and childish behaviour that has been slipping over from the non PM section into genuine trade topics of other member's, and completely derailing their sales topics and turning them into a joke. TSF is all up for members having a laugh and some banter and joking around, and it is why we specifically have a non PM section of the forum as well as this topic here, so members do have a section where they are allowed to discuss (nearly) anything and to joke around in. But member's trade topics where your fellow members are trying to trade in, is not the place.

Please remember that TSF is a business, with many professional dealers and industry representatives on as well as many serious collectors and investors. We are trying to grow the trade section for everyone. We would be grateful if you could please respect other forum members and our rule about unsolicited comments and treat the forum's trade section with seriousness as it is a place of trade.

In general I try not to interfere and like I said am all up for members having fun and a joke about (in the correct non PM section of the forum) but I have even had continual reports from a few long standing members who are not happy that the trade section is receiving a rise in such unsolicited comments and behaviour, which has resulted in several sellers sometimes withdrawing their items from sale. Again please try to contain yourself within the non PM section. 

Unsolicited comments (such as pages and pages of members joking around in one trade topic) also unfairly bump such topics up, hiding other members trade topics as well as completely derailing and destroying the trade topic of the member who is just trying to sell their item(s). It is also very off-putting to new members, we wish to encourage new members and for TSF to grow.

Please see the forum's rule on unsolicited comments here: 
Sellers who receive unsolicited comments in their trade topics, please report for moderator review. Trade topics may also be put into moderator approval queue, and/or warning points issued to accounts as the moderators see appropriate in order to uphold the forum's trade section.  

My late father's former union organised and paid for legal action against his employer due to the life-threatening condition he developed due to their working conditions. He would have been pretty powerless otherwise (I'd actually previously engaged another legal firm for him myself who wrongly said his case was hopeless and told us we couldn't proceed).
That said, at the top level the union bosses are all part of the sham 'game' with government. It was all orchestrated in the 70s and 80s to de-power the working men (force a crisis that only affected the people - not the fat cats - and close the coal mines etc).
Exactly the same is happening now (except the unions are even more of a puppet, thanks to Blair and successors taking Maggie's baton) . Unless you think that nurses strikes etc at a time when elderly folk are being told they can't heat and eat is a coincidence - all because of Putin, climate change, and post-covid supply issues, of course
Basically the unions are just another player in the grander scheme of things, but (the way they make them so, otherwise no-one would join) as an individual they can be priceless.

I might be showing my age a little but here we go. Being self employed most of my working life I used to pay for income insurance. I never thought it was too expensive for the peace of mind it gave me at £26 a month. Roll on about 15/ 16 years with only a modest increase to I think the last payment I made was just over £30. the company was Cirencester friendly. I took ill. Started coughing blood up. Panic sets in, thinking the worst. no energy and couldn't work. eventually got a diagnosis of Sarcoidosis. Curable and not the big C. Any how tried to claim on the insurance. All I could get from them was 2 lots of £80. That's after paying in, lets say an average of £28 X 12 months X 15 years = £5040. Had I been putting the money into Sovereigns instead of the insurance. not only would I have still had my £5k but the ones bought at the beginning would have been worth more than 7 times what I'd paid for them. Sound's like a great store of value to me. 

My late father's former union organised and paid for legal action against his employer due to the life-threatening condition he developed due to their working conditions. He would have been pretty powerless otherwise (I'd actually previously engaged another legal firm for him myself who wrongly said his case was hopeless and told us we couldn't proceed).
That said, at the top level the union bosses are all part of the sham 'game' with government. It was all orchestrated in the 70s and 80s to de-power the working men (force a crisis that only affected the people - not the fat cats - and close the coal mines etc).
Exactly the same is happening now (except the unions are even more of a puppet, thanks to Blair and successors taking Maggie's baton) . Unless you think that nurses strikes etc at a time when elderly folk are being told they can't heat and eat is a coincidence - all because of Putin, climate change, and post-covid supply issues, of course
Basically the unions are just another player in the grander scheme of things, but (the way they make them so, otherwise no-one would join) as an individual they can be priceless.

Being in a union is still important. The problem is that unions got to powerful in the 70s and then got hammered by Maggie. With some jobs more than others it is important to be in a union to protect yourself from spurious claims against you. A lot of people don’t bother, but then if they have an issue it is very difficult and expensive to try and sort things without union support. 

11th October 2021
Embargo ended some time ago, many German PM dealers have the 10 oz in stock already. 

The less of these that sell the better, I would say these should do well (once any QC problems have been sorted out)

The less of these that sell the better, I would say these should do well (once any QC problems have been sorted out)

You cheeky get! I put a post up on one thread saying I am a rasta (expecting some banter back!) but I think people took it seriously
I can't afford booze these days, it's dearer than eggs

I hope you're having a great holiday Lawrence! Quite possibly I am mistaken, but I can let you know when you get back

The less of these that sell the better, I would say these should do well (once any QC problems have been sorted out)

You cheeky get! I put a post up on one thread saying I am a rasta (expecting some banter back!) but I think people took it seriously
I can't afford booze these days, it's dearer than eggs