shaunscoins

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

Hey @BarryWoods,
Is this the first time you are buying into the Royal Mint hype? This has happened before and several times too.
Nothing will change - no matter who you speak with, in the Mint
I don't know how many of these so called Gothic Crowns you have bought. If you can keep them, great. Else, cut your losses and take some time off from new releases.
I also don't know who this "dealer" or "trade partner" is. It was made very clear that only Mint Marque customers will be offered the plain edge. I know two fellow collectors / flippers / hobbyists who spend enough to be "Platinum Mint Marque" members, but, deliberately choose not to. Both have account managers and weren't offered the "plain edge" version since it was strictly for Mint Marque Customers. Therefore, whoever you bought these coins from would have bought from a Mint Marque customer. 
Yes, there are exceptions to the rule (there always will be). For example, the Mint Marque customers were offered a choice between the plain and the milled edge versions. They couldn't get both. However, there are some select few who received both. Most people here will know who the exceptions are. However, that's not the point. The point is, there is no way these things can be enforced. Also, as it has been mentioned somewhere on the thread above, the model is working well for RM. They already know what is happening. Their staff are on this forum as well as the Facebook Group I think you are referring to. Interestingly, I sometimes get asked by fellow numismatists if they didn't get offered a certain denomination by their account manager because they "flipped" the coin on Facebook! Although they are "watching", nothing will change. Nothing will change, because this is not the first time this has happened. They know it is a cycle. And I know nothing will change because I had discussed this with key staff at RM, during what was then, my monthly catch-up with them. Now these are less frequent. However, the same personnel, a key decision maker had tried to explain to me the rationale behind having a Mint Marque exclusive plain edge version. I don't buy the rationale. I mostly do not agree with their thinking. However, this brings them the most profit and hence why will they do anything different?
Did you know that even you could become a reseller of Royal Mint coins if you wanted to? However, did you also know that if you did decide to do that, you won't just be able to buy the Great Engravers series. You will also have to buy the Peter Rabbits and the Little Miss Sunshines. You won't just be able to buy the 2oz gold proofs. You will also have to buy the silver proofs. How do you think these dealers manage to stay in business? They end up making losses with the less popular releases and then these key releases (usually just once or twice in a year) make up for those losses. Did you also know that these dealers wouldn't have got the plain edge variety directly from the Mint? They would have had to buy them from Mint Marque customers at a premium. 
Lets say you have an issue with the Mint Marque customers reselling these coins. Although there are five levels of Mint Marque customers, majority of the limited editions go to the Platinum Plus and Platinum customers. Do you personally know any genuine collectors who never sell coins after spending more than £100,000 a year with a single mint? Let's take the example of the second coin in the Music Legends series - Elton John. The 2oz gold proof Elton John recently sold at an auction that only yielded 20% above spot price (and over £1,250 less than RRP) to the consigner after buyer's premium? The mintage of this coin is just 50! These were mostly exclusively snapped up by Platinum Plus Mint Marque customers. What does this tell us? There aren't even 50 genuine collectors of that series. However, the first coin in the series has rarely been seen for sale or auction in the past year. The series got ruined as the mintage numbers for the third coin in the series were tripled! and even more for the fourth coin. This is how RM function. The Mint cannot sustain a business such as theirs solely on the basis of "genuine collectors". The collectors only exist if there is exclusivity. You either take the risk and buy into a series at its inception or leave it alone completely. What are 1/4 ounce gold proof Queen's Beasts selling for these days? Not more than £500 a piece (there could be one or two designs fetching more than the others and this figure is an average; based on my own buying and selling experience). Once again, this is less than RRP for most coins in the series. Who would have thought that such a popular series will be fetching negative returns for long term collectors? Sadly, this is the reality. 
Why do you think these coins - Gothic Crown restrikes - will do well in the long run? Do you know that the total mintage of this re-struck Gothic Crown in 2oz gold proof is more than twice that of the Una and the Lion restrike? Did you also know that originally the basis of selecting the designs for the series was that the original would have been struck in extremely limited numbers? Gothic Crown does not even fit the bill of the original criteria for selection since they were minted in relatively large numbers. Ultimately it is a business and RM will do what the market will buy into. Similarly, the hype around these releases was always created by dealers who decided to buy into an idea as long as the mintages were limited and the average public weren't buying into the series. When RM launched this series with the Una and the Lion, did you expect it to do as well as it did? Did you think the subsequent releases will "perform" in a similar fashion. Most people hadn't even heard of "The Three Graces" - the marble statue perhaps yes, but surely not the coin. Una and the Lion has been a legendary coin and therefore the demand for the restrike somewhat makes sense. What also worked in its favour is that the average public didn't buy into the concept initially. Which meant most of the allocation was bought up by dealers around the world. This restricted the supply in the open market and hence the price went up. Immediately there were calls upon the Mint to increase the mintage as they could now see the demand. Moreover, the Mint also wanted a piece of this pie. The subsequent releases even saw a 10oz version in both silver and gold. 
What next? My advice to anybody who asks me about buying commemorative coins is that if you get it directly from the Mint on release day, go for it. Keep it, if you like it. Flip it, if others like it more. However, if you don't get it on release day from the Mint, do not buy it from the secondary market (whether you want to call them "Trusted Trade Partners" or "Dealers" or "Annabelle" - they all form the secondary market) because of the hype. In fact, do not buy it at all  Just wait and watch and in a couple of years (or less) if you still want it, you will probably be paying less than RRP. Unlikely for coins like Una and the Lion, but, applies to most others.
 
 

Picked up my panthers today.
Great coin, love it and the reverse frosted is STUNNING. 
Quality of coins is great, nothing wrong to my eyes. 
THE BOX HOWEVER - ribbon is basically broken and as you might see from the video later today the first impression opening this package was LESS than good. 
Also, ROYAL MINT - get the little things right please, put the bloody coins in oriented the correct way round - this is how I was presented with my coins.
It shows either a) A complete lack of care and precision in the QC process or b) Total ignorance regarding the presentation of their products. 
IF I RULED THE MINT - gosh, heads would role. 

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

I'm glad it has slipped under the radar! I've been trying to keep myself focused on what I'm interested in adding to my collection rather than getting caught up in the hype and FOMO of series that may be more lucrative to be in on but aren't what I'm really interested in. I personally loved the panther design so I'm super excited to see it pop in reverse proof. That being said, were it not for the sheer onslaught of releases I might be looking into a few more things.

This was an unusually smooth experience. Quick access to the site, products available, and allegedly will be with me tomorrow. Who is this company and what have they done with the Royal Mint?! 🤣 This was one I've been looking forward to for a wee while now so I'm glad to not have had a long stressful queue today.

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

So after all that image confusion, it turns out BOTH coins have a smooth edge with inscription!

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

I have not been disappointed. This design pops beautifully in reverse, and having both together is just an excellent set. I really wish there had been a continuity option for this presentation!

Didn’t think of it that way. 😉
 
Oh yes that reverse frosted silver just looks beautiful I think. I’m glad they did it in affordable 1 Oz so I could indulge myself without (much) guilt. 😊

I'm glad it has slipped under the radar! I've been trying to keep myself focused on what I'm interested in adding to my collection rather than getting caught up in the hype and FOMO of series that may be more lucrative to be in on but aren't what I'm really interested in. I personally loved the panther design so I'm super excited to see it pop in reverse proof. That being said, were it not for the sheer onslaught of releases I might be looking into a few more things.

This was an unusually smooth experience. Quick access to the site, products available, and allegedly will be with me tomorrow. Who is this company and what have they done with the Royal Mint?! 🤣 This was one I've been looking forward to for a wee while now so I'm glad to not have had a long stressful queue today.

That was the shortest queue in living history.

Hi All 👋 I'm new to the forum and generally speaking a relatively new collector. Started off with some thematically organised bunc coins and very quickly ended up down the precious metals rabbit hole! Mostly focusing on interesting silver coins with my first toe dip into the gold water coming this sovereign season.
 
Shaun

Welcome Shaun on this great forum, it will be a place were you will learn a lot more about collecting and stacking !

Hello and welcome. Nice to see someone else from Glasgow-ish.