silver prices

[jayboat]

Thanks @ApisMellifera Very good audio for listening to while writing my post.

3 hours ago, Jay2 said:

I can understand people being happy with spot plunging, with a view to buying low to cost average your stack down long term, but having just days ago placed my second order of silver coins.. it's a bit daunting to see it nosedive. Thankfully I'm nowhere near going all-in on silver.

Right now, however, I'd have an extra ounce of silver if I'd bought today instead of a few days ago.

I'm probably ignoring the forest for the trees by refreshing the page on this dip.

I myself placed an decent sized order at the start of last week. I would have had an extra coin are 2 if i had waited. Thats just the way it goes and i dont really care and neither should you. If you plan you hold 1-2 years plus, you should'nt care. For this to happen on your second order is bad luck, give it a few weeks and you will see your concerns fade away. You think about your stack in oz's so it quickly becomes disconnected from money in the bank. 

If you look at silver spot for the last 2 weeks of April, you will see a drop of around £2.30 per oz. This might seem a little crazy but as you are aware, silver can be violent and it is something you become numb to after a while. As long as you keep stacking the price will even out and as someone said above, the spot price only matters when your selling. That extra oz you could have had will be had when you have good luck on a future order and spot jumps after you place an order, but you will not think about it that way when it happens .

Swings and roundabouts, all part of the game.

Stack on !!!!

 

 

[Jay2]

Thanks for the perspective, @jayboat 

[BackyardBullion]

@jayboat great post mate

@Jay2 it really is swings and roundabouts. I remember buying 10kg of silver shot about 4 months ago and spot went up by about 5% in a week. 

It is a very volatile game ?

[mr-dead]

After dealing in cryptocoins for a while now these small pm swings just dont phase me anymore

 

[onlyroadtoheaven]

The way I see it is that I missed the boat on Cryptos but the silver boat has returned to harbour. I am extremely jealous of those that got into Cryptos way back when (500 fold increase in 5 years?), however when you look at those sort of figures it makes me think that large % increases in silver are possible over the next few years. Perhaps those wacky youtube silver mystics are right!

Having stopped buying silver over the past few months I am now looking to get back in at these prices or perhaps even less. However my main concern remains that the price does seem to be manipulated - I just hope the manipulators change their strategy soon and want it to rise.

 

[Pete]

Anyone on here remember ~£30 per ounce ? How do you view your "investment "?

[metallica73]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Anyone on here remember ~£30 per ounce ? How do you view your "investment "?

I started 'stacking' in August 2011 when I bought a single maple leaf for £35 !! Thankfully I didn't have the money so I settled for a few singles of each - the semi-numis has actually held its value pretty well. But I dread to think of those laying out on monster boxes back then.

The silver price is manipulated but any lower than this and i'd be buying again to flip, not hold long term. $18-19oz a couple years from now isn't unrealistic.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Anyone on here remember ~£30 per ounce ? How do you view your "investment "?

If you had put your money in Banca Etruria by now you'd have nothing left:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35062239

[Pampfan]

Silver price beat down continues today. 

I was at my local coin show yesterday and spoke to some USA shop owners and dealers - who were blowing silver out at spot.

 Two told me that in the past week they were flooded with people selling silver to them and they had to liquidate it quickly. 

I wonder if we are only in the beginning of a bigger beat down in prices?

[KDave]

Interesting that people are selling physical now, paper I can understand but physical? 

[shawy2510]

People panic & would rather take a small hit now than if it goes down another £1 or £2?

[sovereignsteve]

3 hours ago, Pampfan said:

Silver price beat down continues today. 

I was at my local coin show yesterday and spoke to some USA shop owners and dealers - who were blowing silver out at spot.

 Two told me that in the past week they were flooded with people selling silver to them and they had to liquidate it quickly. 

I wonder if we are only in the beginning of a bigger beat down in prices?

If people are panic selling, that usually means we're near the bottom

[KDave]

Indeed this might be some weaker hands being shaken out. Its anecdotal so probably just someone selling silver to buy some bitcoin or etheriums, or perhaps to pay for the deposit on a house 

I remember a discussion a while back, around mid last year, reference the bottom in the PM market at the end of 2015. One observation was that we didn't see any mass bankruptcies in the miners, we didn't see any massive capitulation in volume, and we didn't see 'blood in the streets' in that industry, especially in the gold sector. We got a few temporary mine closures and people buying all the way down, there was plenty of profitability at those prices thanks to oil, and buying and investment demand for physical silver and gold was quite strong despite the lower prices.

Two things were to blame for the cycle not completing. As mentioned low oil prices were supporting the businesses/mines that would otherwise have shut up shop. More importantly, low interest rates and the 'ab-normal' environment were supporting demand from investors who were both 'in uncharted territory', and also regarded zero yield as a good buy given the alternatives the environment had created. Now look at the picture today, with the thoughts of higher oil and higher interest rates in mind and tell me you are not turning bearish with the weak hands 

UK investors also have the strengthening  £ to consider. Who knows what could happen. 

[Pete]

23 hours ago, KDave said:

UK investors also have the strengthening  £ to consider. Who knows what could happen. 

The £ is pretty crap at the moment and has a long way to recover let alone strengthen.

[KDave]

Indeed, a long way to recover. It could fall further of course, but I am more confident that the downside is limited and it is the upside you need to worry about, especially if you are trading it for silver. 

[gkoogk]

today again. Silver price smashed down again. Been like this now for 6 months..as soon as it starts to rise. Someone somewhere smashes it down again. Perhaps I should stick to gold

[Pampfan]

@gkoogkthis has been the same story for the last 2 yrs now. It goes up and then gets smashed, then it rebounds, a complete roller coaster ride.

Buy silver because you like it - if it goes up then a plus - down at least you like the piece you have. 

Silver is very volatile - big gains come with big risks

[sixgun]

When the death grip is broken on gold the same death grip will be broken on silver. 

Silver is heavily suppressed. It is the bankers' Achilles heel b/c it has been so heavily suppressed. It is so cheap it is thrown away and we have been using more silver than mined for 13 years now.

A 1900 $20 US Double Eagle contains $1218 of gold at today's price.

Twenty Morgan dollars contain $251 of silver at today's price. If silver were its 1900 value twenty Morgan dollars should contain $1218 of silver, which would be $78/oz. It is a long way off that. If you think gold has been suppressed silver has been murdered and this is despite the myriad of important uses silver has in modern technology. 

if you are in this for the longer term then start collecting silver. This inequality may rectify this year, next year but it will rectify sometime; it will not go on forever b/c silver is a vital compound of so much modern technology and cheap silver will run out. Just buy what you can afford and keep it safe. If the price falls you will  be able to buy more of it, it is as simple as that.

 

[morezone]

@gkoogk I've merged your recent thread with your old one of the same title.  For discussions of the same topic please continue to use this thread.

[Pete]

With the gold/silver ratio being so high surely this points to silver being cheap so as others have said, now is a great time to accumulate more if you have the space to store it long term.
The silver price must be manipulated by the banks & institutions trading promissory notes and paper contracts so the metal price bears no relationship to the market or useage. Just a thought ! Also bear in mind that the clock is ticking for low VAT silver to stackers in the UK. Prices to purchase new coins to many of us will rise by about 20% in under 2 years from now.

[Moi]

I agree, a good time to bulk up. 

[KDave]

I don't think there will be anything decided on VAT yet to be fair. I'm going to assume worst case and stack a bit more silver over the next 18 months or so. 

[whitesands1]

There is an easy way for the Govt. to sort this out.  Cut out VAT on Silver Coins.  There would be a loss of VAT revenue but much higher sale of coins in the UK stimulating economic activity rather than letting Forum £'s go abroad. 

I think this is the concern across the Brexit argument that we could become a low tax paradise as a plan B if the economy tanks!

[Pete]

27 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

Do we know this for sure or are we still at the stage where no talks have taken place on anything? The only thing that has come from Government is that EU nationals that have lived in the UK 5 years or more can stay, i haven't heard anything on trade etc, can you link something to read up that they will be charging 20%

I would say with 90% certainty that once out of the EU all imports will be treated exactly the same way an non-EU states.
For example today you must pay 20% VAT on imports from the British Channel Islands.
Consequently ALL imports from Germany, Belgium , Estonia etc ( our silver suppliers ) will be subject to full UK VAT at 20%.
At present there is free trade across the EU and a seller can choose to invoice VAT in his country or sell without VAT and you pay the rate in your country ( so I understand ). Once VAT is paid, say in Germany even if it is 2% then there is no further VAT to pay. I genuinely believe this will end 2019.

The trade talks relate to tariffs of import duty which for most products is zero BUT for "protected" industries to make imports unattractively priced duty can be levied and some products carry very high import duties in double figures. We are hoping that duties across Europe will remain at zero rate and the problem we have is trying to lower tariffs ( set by the EU ) to import goods from say Commonwealth Countries that are artificially held high ( by the EU ). At least that's my understanding. I was once in a business that had to levy a 17% tarriff for high value components made in the USA because it would otherwise have allegedly damaged EU suppliers of a similar, but not the same, product that we considered were overcharging in the first instance. The customer had no choice but to pay this inflated price which meant that their end product was made less competitive trying to export an added value system with a lot of UK made parts & jobs.

[sixgun]

Well we are primarily buying coins and medallions which are collectors' items of numismatic interest. There is a whole thread dealing with the rules and that we should not be paying 20% VAT but 5% VAT on or non-EU imports. 

If we left the EU and i have significant doubts this will happen, people must press these rules and only pay 5% on their imports. These are the pirates' rules and we expect them to stick to them. We are collectors of coins and medallions of numismatic interest and everything we buy falls into that category.