Do I have fake sovereigns...?

[Nicolaw]

Hi all, I've been on the forum a little while and usually stack silver however I recently bought 5 different sovereigns frok 3 different sellers on here and today I thought I'd sigma test and weight them....

But 3 of the 5 fail the sigma test when measured on their heads. The G&D side they pass.

Also they are all coming in at 8g dead, not 7.98....

Also  dont knkw what they are meant to feel like, but one of them has like a lip on it sticking up/catching and another feels bit off but cpukd be my paranoia. I took 2 out of their slip as the sigma fail made me doubt them and they too fail on one side.

So please can someone advise if they are fake and if so, what my options are? Shpuld I take then to a pawnbroker to check?

Bit nervous to buy any more on tsf now... i haven't tested all my silver yet but of the 20 I have tested they are fine....

Pictures to follow, Thanks:)

To confirm, the 3 sellers seem reputable/good feedback so unsure what to do.

Thanks 

 

[daca]

Use the wand, the coin is smaller  than the target area of the sigma.

Also post better photos, impossible to say from the ones posted already

Edited January 6 by daca

[Nicolaw]

Thanks, will try take better pics later. Was more to show the weight. And I'll do the wand too  hadn't thought of them!

In the words of Arnie, I'll be back:)

[James32]

As @daca says, use small wand. I never test anything smaller than a half oz coin directly on the sigma. All sovereigns and 1/4ozs get the wand treatment. Basically if the coin is smaller than the black circle on testing area ( use the wand )

[Nicolaw]

Thanks, sounds like user error re the sigma!

Regarding the 8g, is this ok then? I used the same scales you? recommended a while ago .... ACCT ones and calibrated.

Thanks 

[James32]

1 minute ago, Nicolaw said:

Thanks, sounds like user error re the sigma!

Regarding the 8g, is this ok then? I used the same scales you? recommended a while ago .... ACCT ones and calibrated.

Thanks 

Yeah the weight is fine.

[Sovhead]

9 minutes ago, Nicolaw said:

Thanks, sounds like user error re the sigma!

Regarding the 8g, is this ok then? I used the same scales you? recommended a while ago .... ACCT ones and calibrated.

Thanks 

Some do weigh 8g 👍🏻

[Nicolaw]

Ok thanks all. Feel much better already.  Will update tonight 

[ZigZag]

Just an aside, the reason I opted for the Sigma Pro version, was the ability to test the smaller coins, without using the wand. It’s ideal for sovereign’s, which is the bulk of my higher value stuff.

[Orpster]

The 8g would not be unusual on that type of scale,

And all the pictures you have posted look like they are fine on the Sigma too, I can see two where the read is just outside the [ ] but given you are not using the wand I would not be in any way worried, the 0 is literally just outside the [ ].  If the 0 was not visible and there was an arrow, then I would worry.  I think you are absolutely fine mate, all looks good to me, but if your really worried do a specific gravity test.  Just go on YouTube to see how to do it but literally all you need is scales (which you have) and a bowl of water. 

Edited January 6 by Orpster

[Spyder]

I would be very surprised if there are any 2017 fakes about or Machin head.  If you really want to know the true weight of your coins, then buy a scale that only goes to 50g. Those tend to show weight to 3 decimal points

[JamesH]

All look ok to me. Definitely use the wand on small gold coins. Weight wise, nearly every single sovereign I own has shown 8g dead on the scale I use. Bought direct from the mint, dealers and thru forums so plenty to compare against. I wouldn’t worry about anything you’ve pictured here 👍🏼

[dicker]

I don’t own a Sigma - but it would be the very last test I did if I bothered.

Really accurate scales and a micrometer are good but honestly - a detailed visual inspection - comparing against a reference coin is in my opinion the most important test.

 

[Chronos]

Yes, you have fake sovereigns ...

Just give them to me and I will get rid of them for you ...

😁

 

[pricha]

17 hours ago, dicker said:

I don’t own a Sigma - but it would be the very last test I did if I bothered.

Really accurate scales and a micrometer are good but honestly - a detailed visual inspection - comparing against a reference coin is in my opinion the most important test.

 

Absolutely.  Those Sigma machines are hugely expensive and can't be justified unless you have a large collection/ turnover of coins.  A simple ping test and comparing like for like should be fine. Only the King George I'd slightly worry if it was my first but the others no problems.  The chances of one of these five being fake is about 0.001% .  Who can say what will happen in 10 or 20 years time with technology and the Chinese but I'd wouldn't worry too much about these coins

[Coverte]

2 hours ago, pricha said:

Absolutely.  Those Sigma machines are hugely expensive and can't be justified unless you have a large collection/ turnover of coins.  

I disagree; a used Sigma = about 2 sovereigns; that's a miniscule fraction of the value of many peoples collections, both here and elsewhere.

If you need to do any liquidation, it also gives instant verification to the lesser educated buyers - and there's plenty of older boomer generation cash buyers around currently, even if not on here.

[pricha]

57 minutes ago, Coverte said:

I disagree; a used Sigma = about 2 sovereigns; that's a miniscule fraction of the value of many peoples collections, both here and elsewhere.

If you need to do any liquidation, it also gives instant verification to the lesser educated buyers - and there's plenty of older boomer generation cash buyers around currently, even if not on here.

I'd love one but they seemed very difficult to purchase some time ago. Maybe not so much now. So you can pick them up in the  uk for £800 ? 

Edited January 7 by pricha

[Minted]

Out of interest, has anyone on here found a previously unknown fake sovereign using a Sigma?  I get that it's for peace of mind, but doesn't actually pay for itself unless you've received and returned two and a half fake sovereigns at current rates.

[JamesH]

17 minutes ago, Minted said:

Out of interest, has anyone on here found a previously unknown fake sovereign using a Sigma?  I get that it's for peace of mind, but doesn't actually pay for itself unless you've received and returned two and a half fake sovereigns at current rates.

Yep. I’ve picked up 1 sovereign and one half sovereign that were fake/couldn’t get a reading. Dealer/sellers took them back for full refund both times 👍🏼

[pricha]

1 hour ago, JamesH said:

Yep. I’ve picked up 1 sovereign and one half sovereign that were fake/couldn’t get a reading. Dealer/sellers took them back for full refund both times 👍🏼

Yes but I resold them on eBay 😆 

[JohnA1]

On 06/01/2024 at 11:23, ZigZag said:

Just an aside, the reason I opted for the Sigma Pro version, was the ability to test the smaller coins, without using the wand. It’s ideal for sovereign’s, which is the bulk of my higher value stuff.

Couldn't agree more.

I wouldn't even *consider* any gold that doesn't pass Sigma test all the way through. The Pro Mini tests through up to 10mm, that's good even for the thickest gold coin/bar I'd be interested.  Wands only go down to a certain number of microns deep, same as XRF guns. Not good enough perhaps if cladding is involved.

Edited January 7 by JohnA1

[Nicolaw]

Apologies for the radio silence, busy times!

Please see below close ups of the coins, hopefully better. 

 

On a good point, measuring them with  the wand they all passed. But a couple of them don't feel right and the 2017 has a lip. Could be a stamping error but these are my first sovs so unsure. 

Appreciate any expert eyes.

I'll have a look in to the gravity test thing too. Thanks for everyone's comments:)

Edited January 8 by Nicolaw

[Nicolaw]

1911

[Nicolaw]

1902

[Nicolaw]

2017