Gold bars or gold coins

[Silverlocks]

49 minutes ago, BipolarStacker said:

What sovereigns tho mate cuz there is so many while I’m on here I’m in my laptop looking for best sovereigns but there so many 

This is a big question in its own right.  Get hold of a copy of these three books:

• Marsh, The Gold Sovereign - some historical background and discussions of mintage figures and rarity of sovereigns.
• Allen, Grading British Coins - pictures of all obverse and reverse coins on British coinage from the late 18th century until about 1970.  If you're going to go buying historic sovereigns, learn a bit about how to assess the condition.
• Spink, Coins of England and the United Kingdom.  Published annually, this has a list of all British coins along with prices in various conditions.

There are a few myths worth debunking, in particular -

Don't overpay for shields - shields are not rare.  Every sovereign minted between 1821 and 1871 was a shield, and a large proportion of Australian sovereigns between 1872 and 1887.  Every half sovereign between 1821 and 1892 was a shield.  However, as they were circulated as coinage, shields in good condition aren't common.  These days most folks know the value of shields, so the party selling the shields has usually gotten all the value out of them.  There are also a lot of people flogging munters at rather optimistic prices.  Don't buy shields for the sake of buying shields until you're comfortable you can assess their condition.

A lot of folks sell sovs (BullionByPost, for example, and even some vendors on secondary market channels) at somewhat inflated prices.  The secondary market is not necessarily cheap.  You still have to do your homework and have a sense of what constitutes good value.

Condition doesn't matter if it's bullion.  This is true to some extent, but folks will definitely buy nicer sovs in preference.  Don't overpay for bullion - and unless it's in decent condition for its type it's bullion.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Silverlocks

[BipolarStacker]

7 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

In the UK, under current legislation, CGT free gold coins are going to be the best long term.  This means any coin that is legal tender in the UK, including Sovereigns and most if not all RM bullion coins.  Sovereigns are still legal tender (with a face value of £1), and you can see the face value on RM's bullion coins.

Sovereigns are very liquid - I've seen people shift 50 or 100 sovs in a few days here on TSF, but there are quite a few gotchas.  You really have to do your homework about the numismatics if you're going to get into sovereigns. Get copies of Marsh, Allen and this year's Spink as a good starting point.  

1oz Britannias can also be good value and are CGT exempt, but represent a bigger single hit and are less liquid because of their individual cost.  

Fractional bars (less than 1oz) tend to carry fairly high premiums here in the UK, but can be worth picking up at the right price.  The same is true of fractional (1/10oz, 1/4oz and 1/2oz) coins.  If the opportunity to buy at the right price comes along, then purchase.

The exception to this is circulated gold coins.  These tend to have relatively low premiums, lower than small bars or bullion coins, and tend to provide the best bang for your buck in buying fractional gold, with the lowest spreads between what you're likely to pay and what you can sell on the secondary market.  Sovereigns are the poster child for this due to their CGT exemption, but there are other widely circulated gold coins such as 20 franc LMU coins (Roosters, Angels and Vrenellis in particular) that can also be good value.  In America, Pre-1933 U.S. gold coins are also popular for this, but they're less common on this side of the Atlantic.

1oz carded bars are a frequent target of scammers (hop onto shoppee or aliexpress and go looking for fakes) so don't buy them unless you're confident of their provenance.  However, 1oz bars can be worth buying at a low premium, as can 1oz non-Royal Mint coins such as Maples or Krugerrands, which often pop up on the secondary market at fairly low premiums.  You won't get much more than spot for them, but you won't pay much more than spot either.

1oz anything is big enough that a lot of folks can't afford to buy them, so make sure you have a decent amount (at least half) of fractional gold in your stack.  Which means . . . learning what constitutes good value in fractional gold.

Don't be tempted by posh gold proof coins, especially from the Royal Mint's web site.  They tend to lose a lot of their value.  I've seen at least three people try and fail to shift 5oz gold proofs here, even at a large discount off their original sale price.  The other day somebody flogged a 10 oz proof here at spot - but somewhere along the line somebody has taken a bath to the tune of nearly 50% of what they paid for it.  Expensive proof gold coins have a limited market and are almost always poor investments.

Just for disclosure, every gold coin I've bought so far has been fractional, mainly sovereigns.

Very very formative this I’m saving to my phone thankyou and yes I like sovereigns I think I’m gonna start buying the 2023 King Charles gold sovereign 

1 minute ago, Silverlocks said:

This is a big question in its own right.  Get hold of a copy of these three books:

• Marsh, The Gold Sovereign - some historical background and discussions of mintage figures and rarity of sovereigns.
• Allen, Grading British Coins - pictures of all obverse and reverse coins on British coinage from the late 18th century until about 1970.  If you're going to go buying historic sovereigns, learn a bit about how to assess the condition.
• Spink, Coins of England and the United Kingdom.  Published annually, this has a list of all British coins along with prices in various conditions.

 

 

 

I will buy these this week 👍

[AaaGee]

Just buy 1/10 brits and sovereigns off of this site from trusted sellers and you should be ok.

Read through different threads on the forum and educate yourself (thats what i do). Also regularly look in the for sale section and eventually youll start getting an idea of (in your opinion) what are good and not so good prices of the coins you are on the lookout for.

Ask questions, someone will answer.

 

Enjoy TSF 👍

[Bigmarc]

1 hour ago, BipolarStacker said:

£250 a week without missus killing me can probs push abit more 

What’s best ones to buy 

Please tell me you are not bellyfloping into gold when it's so near to a all time high? 

Take it slow and steady. 

Also as everyone else has said, capital gains exempt (sovereigns). CGT threshold is likely to go to zero over the next few years.

 

[9x883]

1 minute ago, AaaGee said:

Just buy 1/10 brits and sovereigns off of this site from trusted sellers and you should be ok.

Read through different threads on the forum and educate yourself (thats what i do). Also regularly look in the for sale section and eventually youll start getting an idea of (in your opinion) what are good and not so good prices of the coins you are on the lookout for.

Ask questions, someone will answer.

 

Enjoy TSF 👍

👏👏👏👏👏👏 

[AaaGee]

 

[ZRPMs]

1 minute ago, AaaGee said:

 

beat me to it. I did tag you in though @BipolarStacker

[CANV]

2 hours ago, BipolarStacker said:

Gold Krugs? 

indeed. this is the gold bit of the forum.   aside from that ive always felt silver krugs a bit of a gimmick.   it would be like silver sovs.  its just not right.  

Edited August 14, 2023 by CANV

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

Stop playing lads and give him the real answer

What gold to buy?

Wait until you see @James32 say the magic words on a listing ("All please") then immediately comment below that you got there first

[Roy]

I find the premiums generally reciprocate,

A 1oz Krug will buy at spot but will sell at spot.

A 1oz Buffalo might ask a 10% premium but will sell for a 10% premium.

Fractional premiums remain the same, buy/sell.

[Orpster]

17 hours ago, BipolarStacker said:

I was comfortable buying from tavex but after asking me for my passport I kinda don’t wanna touch them again so need a reputable place to buy weekly some where they ain’t gonna tell HMRC 🤓

They have to take your data as soon as you reach a certain spending limit within a set time period, which I think is a rolling year.
You could spread you purchases over multiple dealers. Tthese work out the same price roughly as Tavex as they include delivery

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/gold/gold-coins/1-10oz-gold-coins/2023-uk-king-charles-iii-britannia-1-10oz-gold-coin

And remember should you ever need to make an insurance claim having a big pile of receipts from dealers will certainly help your case.  I would also try (in no particular order) HGM, Gerrards, Bairds (though watch their delivery charges they are punitive), Chards, Britannia Coins & Bleyer Bullion.  For the coins I stack I have the dealer listings bookmarked in my browser and stock alerts set up where the dealer supports them

[dicker]

I always suggest Sovs and Brits for all of the good reasons we have discussed in threads passim.

While it isn’t always true, Gillicks can usually be found as close to spot as any Sov you can buy, are attractive and you just might just find a really nice example when buying from a dealer.

Gillicks are also a reasonable gold colour and not the copper from post 2000. I personally find Shields the most appealing colour but this is just confirmation bias.   

[Thelonerangershorse]

21 hours ago, ZRPMs said:

If you sell non CGT exempt coins or bars you will have to declare this to HMRC also the limit on gains has been reduced to either £600 or £300 now for the year.

Currently £6000 this year and £3000 next year.

Avoid silver spoons and other tableware, it has a very limited market when selling. (1 person really)

[Darr3nG]

7 minutes ago, Thelonerangershorse said:

a very limited market when selling. (1 person really)

[Bratnia]

5 hours ago, Orpster said:

They have to take your data as soon as you reach a certain spending limit within a set time period, which I think is a rolling year.

Anyone know what they do with that information? I sell £500,000 of stocks, buy £500,000 of gold and the dealer copies my passport and forwards that to HMRC ... who then do what? I believe the dealer only flags that more than £10,000 of gold was bought, not the precise amount/type of gold ??? Given the history of data losses it would be concerning for unknown third parties having access to information such as Mr X who lives at xxxx bought £500K of gold earlier today - potentially being passed on by a shady HMRC employee to their shady mates. 

[Gordy]

Some good advice offered, for me you seem to have the most important part sorted...... DISCIPLINE!!!! Most of us dont have that....

secondly..... look on here, if its a great deal on a monday, ask the seller if he/she/unicorn can wait until friday, i have held coins for a few weeks for members when asked, all we would generally ask for is if you did ask it to be held for you, is commit to buying it..

[BipolarStacker]

1 hour ago, Gordy said:

Some good advice offered, for me you seem to have the most important part sorted...... DISCIPLINE!!!! Most of us dont have that....

secondly..... look on here, if its a great deal on a monday, ask the seller if he/she/unicorn can wait until friday, i have held coins for a few weeks for members when asked, all we would generally ask for is if you did ask it to be held for you, is commit to buying it..

Ye that’s a idea I could even leave them a deposit 

[BipolarStacker]

15 minutes ago, BipolarStacker said:

Ye that’s a idea I could even leave them a deposit 

Is this sovereign better to buy than older sovereigns or are they just the same 

[Darr3nG]

3 minutes ago, BipolarStacker said:

Is this sovereign better to buy than older sovereigns

Depends on what you mean by better.

[stefffana]

3 hours ago, Thelonerangershorse said:

Avoid silver spoons and other tableware, it has a very limited market when selling. (1 person really)

I have had never issues selling them at spot or some exquisite flatwere up to 25% premium.

Usually they sell in less than one hour.

But yes, these are only for connoisseurs.

[BipolarStacker]

14 minutes ago, Darr3nG said:

Depends on what you mean by better.

For wealth preservation over a long time basically to sell in 10 years I’m not just on about this one but are these better to stack than older ones I ask cuz they seem to be cheaper 

and for 7 gram it’s the cheapest coin I can find 

[stefffana]

1 minute ago, BipolarStacker said:

For wealth preservation over a long time basically to sell in 10 years I’m not just on about this one but are these better to stack than older ones I ask cuz they seem to be cheaper 

and for 7 gram it’s the cheapest coin I can find 

It is 7.98g of gold 22ct, so technically equivalent 7.32g pure gold.

I don't think if will do better than other classic sovereigns, to be honest. All off them are selling on secondary market almost at the same price, with £5-£10 more or less.

Over 10yrs, just doesn't matter.

Try do have a good average when buying and your stack will grow steady and healthy.

[AaaGee]

3 minutes ago, BipolarStacker said:

For wealth preservation over a long time basically to sell in 10 years I’m not just on about this one but are these better to stack than older ones I ask cuz they seem to be cheaper 

and for 7 gram it’s the cheapest coin I can find 

Im grabbing a couple myself. Hoping there will be some value in them in 10 to 15 years as Charles III year of the coronation sovereigns. Maybe worth grabbing a couple if you can. Just my opinion of course.

[Darr3nG]

1 minute ago, BipolarStacker said:

For wealth preservation over a long time basically to sell in 10 years I’m not just on about this one but are these better to stack than older ones I ask cuz they seem to be cheaper 

and for 7 gram it’s the cheapest coin I can find 

It's difficult to say, lots can happen/change in 10 years, but most bullion sovereigns go for a few % over spot, so buying the cheapest is a good plan.

Trouble is, some bullion sovs end up being worth a few £ more - take the recent price increase of Gillicks since QEII passed - before that, they were being sold at the same price as the current year sovs. And then there's the fascination with Vic Shields...

Buying some Charles Coronation sovs now, for the cheapest price should see your investment well preserved.

[Roy]

I agree. It's a one-off obverse isn't it?

Those crazy collectors will want one for their Charles collection when he....retires.