Gold bars or gold coins

[dicker]

The search function is very useful and will allow you to access a vast body of knowledge accumulated since 2014.

Lots of the info on TSF can also be found via Google.

[GoldDiggerDave]

Silver !.........Sorry could not help it 🤣  They guys have given you some sound advice CGT coins are better than bars, some dealers will only give 90-95% of spot on gold bars where you will likely to get 100% +on CGT uk coins.  

If you are getting CGT coins try and get the ones they may hold a little more premium possibly, special year reverse bullion sovereigns,   tudors beast, the coronation 1/4 and 1oz gold. 

If you have £250 per week  2 -3 sovereigns per month for about 10 months then top it off with a nice 1oz gold at the end of they year. 

 

[BipolarStacker]

3 minutes ago, Ignorant said:

Things to keep in mind when buying bars:

- They are easier to counterfeit than coins. No dealer will buy your bars unless they can verify their authenticity. That means dealers without professional XRF spectrometers will probably want to breakout the bars out of the assay cards they are contained in in order to test them.

- Unless you poses the professional tools required to verify that the bars are genuine, it’ll be a greater gamble than if you were to buy coins. Coins are way harder to counterfeit than bars are. Without these tools you have no way of verifying the authenticity of your bars without removing them from their packaging. You could of course buy bars from reputable sources, but a rule of thumb is the more reliable a source is, the higher the premiums you pay are.

-Besides their intrinsic value gold bars will hardly ever increase in value. Coins may be or become collectible over time and therefore have a much greater chance of appreciating in value over time due to desirability and scarcity. Many numismatic coins are worth much more than just the value of their gold content. Bars on the other hand hardly ever will.

- Rarely if ever will you receive above spot when selling your gold bars; whereas dealers tend to pay above spot for certain coins.

Once I realized these simple facts I never bought another bar.

 

 

 

I shell not buy any more bars 😂🤣 no honestly I might do what @James32 said stick with my 1/10th coins and put cash in a stack also 

only thing is I buy from tavex but last week they asked me to verify my ID so now I feel they telling HMRC and I dispise the system never mind them asking me or even knowing I’m buying gold so need a reliable place to buy them 

[BipolarStacker]

2 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Silver !.........Sorry could not help it 🤣  They guys have given you some sound advice CGT coins are better than bars, some dealers will only give 90-95% of spot on gold bars where you will likely to get 100% +on CGT uk coins.  

If you are getting CGT coins try and get the ones they may hold a little more premium possibly, special year reverse bullion sovereigns,   tudors beast, the coronation 1/4 and 1oz gold. 

If you have £250 per week  2 -3 sovereigns per month for about 10 months then top it off with a nice 1oz gold at the end of they year. 

 

What sovereigns tho mate cuz there is so many while I’m on here I’m in my laptop looking for best sovereigns but there so many 

[NGMD]

57 minutes ago, BipolarStacker said:

£250 a week without missus killing me can probs push abit more 

 

I think you could point out that better you’re spending your hard earned on coins rather than a mistress. Argument solved.

[GoldDiggerDave]

6 minutes ago, BipolarStacker said:

What sovereigns tho mate cuz there is so many while I’m on here I’m in my laptop looking for best sovereigns but there so many 

If you are just starting off with sovereigns then keep it simple and go for new bullion sovereigns,  2023 coronation sovereigns, 2022 memorials,  (2022 Jubilees are already holding a premium so maybe to them yet ) Gillicks are nice if you can pick them up for bullion money.  Until you get comfortable with sovereigns stay clear of the older sovereigns coins for now, aways buy from a reputable dealer or trusted TSF member, and if you want an easy life stay clear of popular online auction sites where theres loads of fakes.  

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by GoldDiggerDave

[BipolarStacker]

1 minute ago, NGMD said:

I think you could point out that better you’re spending your hard earned on coins rather than a mistress. Argument solved.

That is very true I now have £500 a week 😂😂

[dicker]

2 minutes ago, BipolarStacker said:

I shell not buy any more bars 😂🤣 no honestly I might do what @James32 said stick with my 1/10th coins and put cash in a stack also 

only thing is I buy from tavex but last week they asked me to verify my ID so now I feel they telling HMRC and I dispise the system never mind them asking me or even knowing I’m buying gold so need a reliable place to buy them 

It is fairly unlikely that they are feeding your information to the HMRC, if you are a normal person transacting normally.

If you use the search function you will find extensive and conclusive explanations of HMRC reporting from a dealer and others. 

It sounds like you are stacking - you might want to simply save up for Sovs which have a low premium and are highly liquid.  Just my opinion.

Best

Dicker

 

[BipolarStacker]

1 minute ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

If you are just starting off with sovereigns then keep it simple and go for new bullion sovereigns,  2023 coronation sovereigns, 2022 memorials,  (2022 Jubilees are already holding a premium so maybe to them yet ) Gillicks are nice if you can pick them up for bullion money.  Until you get comfortable with sovereigns stay clear of the older sovereigns coins for now, aways buy form a reputable dealer or trusted TSF member, and if you want an easy life stay clear of popular online auction sites where theres loads of fakes.  

 

I was comfortable buying from tavex but after asking me for my passport I kinda don’t wanna touch them again so need a reputable place to buy weekly some where they ain’t gonna tell HMRC 🤓

[GoldDiggerDave]

3 minutes ago, BipolarStacker said:

I was comfortable buying from tavex but after asking me for my passport I kinda don’t wanna touch them again so need a reputable place to buy weekly some where they ain’t gonna tell HMRC 🤓

It's normal for  dealers to ask for ID.   They have to due the the HMRC regulations.    

[Stuntman]

Don't worry about them telling HMRC.  If you're going to be spending about £1000 per month stacking gold, best to keep it above board and just jump through the hoops.  I don't really see it as a being a problem and it makes it easy to keep transacting. 

Alternatively, spread your purchases between several reputable dealers. 

[BipolarStacker]

Just now, GoldDiggerDave said:

It's normal for  dealers to ask for ID.   They have to due the the HMRC regulations.    

So even after my 5k spend they won’t know I’m buying ? I get a big tax rebate each year so don’t want that affected 😂

[dicker]

5 minutes ago, BipolarStacker said:

I was comfortable buying from tavex but after asking me for my passport I kinda don’t wanna touch them again so need a reputable place to buy weekly some where they ain’t gonna tell HMRC 🤓

Sorry to disabuse you of your understanding of how tax authorities and dealers work, they already have all of your information and would provide to HMRC if asked. Your bank / credit card leaves an immutable trail back to you.

The passport is simply to fully identify you as part of KYC rules.

Move dealers but it won’t make any difference.

 

[Stuntman]

I don't think any notification to HMRC about buying gold should affect any tax rebate you currently receive.

I fill in an income tax self assessment return every year and any precious metal purchases that I have made are not relevant to this return.  

If I sold precious metals that were not exempt from CGT, I would of course declare them on my return if I had made a chargeable gain.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Stuntman
exempt from CGT!

[BipolarStacker]

Just now, dicker said:

Sorry to disabuse you of your understanding of how tax authorities and dealers work, they already have all of your information and would provide to HMRC if asked. Your bank / credit card leaves an immutable trail back to you.

The passport is simply to fully identify you as part of KYC rules.

Move dealers but it won’t make any difference.

 

Fair enuff that’s why I came to TSF to get advice from people like you guys 

[NGMD]

Get back to us in 2 months. You’ll be buying what you like-gold,silver and anything else with a pretty design/feel. Your plans will go to pot when you see a bargain, a decent trade or limited edition silver buttplug. It’s the learning curve. You’ll be on Bully’s mailing list, blame Trump,Brexit, Covid Jabs, Preppers, WEF, Aliens, The earth is flat with your special tin foil hat etc etc and NBS is the gospel truth.
I couldn’t tell you what I’m collecting because I get whiplash from Shiny deals.

All I say, is buy something gold regularly. That’s it.

[BipolarStacker]

1 minute ago, Stuntman said:

I don't think any notification to HMRC about buying gold should affect any tax rebate you currently receive.

I fill in an income tax self assessment return every year and any precious metal purchases that I have made are not relevant to this return.  

If I sold precious metals that were not subject to CGT, I would of course declare them on my return if I had made a chargeable gain.

Would you really tho 😂

[dicker]

1 minute ago, BipolarStacker said:

Fair enuff that’s why I came to TSF to get advice from people like you guys 

You need an accountant for this sort of advice.  Someone who understands your tax situation.  

[GoldDiggerDave]

2 minutes ago, BipolarStacker said:

So even after my 5k spend they won’t know I’m buying ? I get a big tax rebate each year so don’t want that affected 😂

If you live in the UK then sovereigns are CGT free,  and if they are part of a "collection" they can be sold or  gifted without notifying the HMRC.  Gold works and you don't have to shortcut the system to achieve it. 

[Stuntman]

1 minute ago, BipolarStacker said:

Would you really tho 😂

Yep.  I did so on last year's return when I sold an asset (not precious metals) and made a gain.  Paid my tax, helps me sleep at night knowing that I'm basically an honest human being.

[BipolarStacker]

1 minute ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

If you live in the UK then sovereigns are CGT free,  and if they are part of a "collection" they can be sold or  gifted without notifying the HMRC.  Gold works and you don't have to shortcut the system to achieve it. 

@GoldDiggerDave your a legend made me laugh love your style

1 minute ago, Stuntman said:

Yep.  I did so on last year's return when I sold an asset (not precious metals) and made a gain.  Paid my tax, helps me sleep at night knowing that I'm basically an honest human being.

Fair enuff pal 👍

[GoldDiggerDave]

@BipolarStacker When they set the rules for gold bullion and UK gold coinage in the 1960's no way did they think us plebs would be using it.   Gold throughout  history has always been a vehicle  for the rich to retain their wealth, why do you think its CGT, VAT and inheritance tax free?  So @James32 can have a bargain? Or they can continue to move their  wealth tax free, vat free and even inheritance tax free.....I'm amazed   not more people are  using gold legitimately for inheritance purposes. 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by GoldDiggerDave

[ZRPMs]

One bit of advice I would give is that you keep a record of what you have, when you bought it, for how much and when you sell, What you got for it at least. All dealers have a duty to record their sales and to who they sell by law. Last I heard it wasn't until you buy £10,000 or more from them that they are duty bound to inform HMRC. However If you keep your own records and receipts you are covered. There are quite a few discussions on tax implications of buying and selling gold or silver on the forum. But in the main nothing to be alarmed about. 

If you sell non CGT exempt coins or bars you will have to declare this to HMRC also the limit on gains has been reduced to either £600 or £300 now for the year. This is why CGT exempt coins are the way. 

[Silverlocks]

2 hours ago, BipolarStacker said:

What’s everyone’s opinion 

gold bars or gold coins for stacking for long term wealth preservation ???

In the UK, under current legislation, CGT free gold coins are going to be the best long term.  This means any coin that is legal tender in the UK, including Sovereigns and most if not all RM bullion coins.  Sovereigns are still legal tender (with a face value of £1), and you can see the face value on RM's bullion coins.

Sovereigns are very liquid - I've seen people shift 50 or 100 sovs in a few days here on TSF, but there are quite a few gotchas.  You really have to do your homework about the numismatics if you're going to get into sovereigns. Get copies of Marsh, Allen and this year's Spink as a good starting point.  

1oz Britannias can also be good value and are CGT exempt, but represent a bigger single hit and are less liquid because of their individual cost.  

Fractional bars (less than 1oz) tend to carry fairly high premiums here in the UK, but can be worth picking up at the right price.  The same is true of fractional (1/10oz, 1/4oz and 1/2oz) coins.  If the opportunity to buy at the right price comes along, then purchase.

The exception to this is circulated gold coins.  These tend to have relatively low premiums, lower than small bars or bullion coins unless they are rare mintages or in exceptionally good condition.  They tend to provide the best bang for your buck in buying fractional gold, with the lowest spreads between what you're likely to pay and what you can sell on the secondary market.  Sovereigns are the poster child for this due to their CGT exemption, but there are other widely circulated gold coins such as 20 franc LMU coins (Roosters, Angels and Vrenellis in particular) that can also be good value.  In America, Pre-1933 U.S. gold coins are also popular for this, but they're less common on this side of the Atlantic.

1oz carded bars are a frequent target of scammers (hop onto shoppee or aliexpress and go looking for fakes) so don't buy them unless you're confident of their provenance.  However, 1oz bars can be worth buying at a low premium, as can 1oz non-Royal Mint coins such as Maples or Krugerrands, which often pop up on the secondary market at fairly low premiums.  You won't get much more than spot for them, but you won't pay much more than spot either.

1oz anything is big enough that a lot of folks can't afford to buy them, so make sure you have a decent amount (at least half) of fractional gold in your stack.  Which means . . . learning what constitutes good value in fractional gold.

Don't be tempted by posh gold proof coins, especially from the Royal Mint's web site.  They tend to lose a lot of their value.  I've seen at least three people try and fail to shift 5oz gold proofs here, even at a large discount off their original sale price.  The other day somebody flogged a 10 oz proof here at spot - but somewhere along the line somebody has taken a bath to the tune of nearly 50% of what they paid for it.  Expensive proof gold coins have a limited market and are almost always poor investments.

Just for disclosure, every gold coin I've bought so far has been fractional, mainly sovereigns.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Silverlocks

[BipolarStacker]

3 minutes ago, ZRPMs said:

One bit of advice I would give is that you keep a record of what you have, when you bought it, for how much and when you sell, What you got for it at least. All dealers have a duty to record their sales and to who they sell by law. Last I heard it wasn't until you buy £10,000 or more from them that they are duty bound to inform HMRC. However If you keep your own records and receipts you are covered. There are quite a few discussions on tax implications of buying and selling gold or silver on the forum. But in the main nothing to be alarmed about. 

If you sell non CGT exempt coins or bars you will have to declare this to HMRC also the limit on gains has been reduced to either £600 or £300 now for the year. This is why CGT exempt coins are the way. 

I do keep track I have all receipts and even a huge stack of tavex boxes 📦 😂