How will silver help against CBDC’s

[Uksilverstackers]

Like someone said earlier most people already transact digitally, cards, phones, online, even our window cleaner has a card reader! etc and ultimately TPTB want everything cashless and I guess it’ll happen. We’ve all seen what happened to cash during Covid.

Another thing is, most kids today hardly use cash anyway and dont see anything wrong.

I agree with Organics above, cashless is a big worry and once specie starts to no longer be issued its doomed.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Uksilverstackers

[Petra]

Cashless society is just like the paperless office. A few people wanted that but it never happened and never will. Whatever you like to think, the majority of people here use cash and always will. Any move to make them do otherwise will not succeed. These are the people who can only dream about buying and stacking gold or silver or gamble on the stock market or buy bit coin. It’s called the real world. Down at this end of society people may have a bank card etc. but still use cash. There’s a big enough fuss if they want to stop using a particular coin. I take payments through the bank for my business, however most people pay cash.

[ady]

12 minutes ago, Uksilverstackers said:

Like someone said earlier most people already transact digitally, cards, phones, online, even our window cleaner has a card reader! etc and ultimately TPTB want everything cashless and I guess it’ll happen. We’ve all seen what happened to cash during Covid.

Another thing is, most kids today hardly use cash anyway and dont see anything wrong.

I agree with Organics above, cashless is a big worry and once specie starts to no longer be issued its doomed.

Will not your window cleaner and other similar profession, which are basically cash in hand eventually realize that a better recompense  might be a silver sixpence or a few satoshi. 

[Roy]

In SEA, a lot of folk pay for things with phone 'load' (credit).

I.e. you add $10 top up to your phone account and you are able to send it, even fractionally, to others for payment of goods or services.

[Arganto]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

In SEA, a lot of folk pay for things with phone 'load' (credit).

I.e. you add $10 top up to your phone account and you are able to send it, even fractionally, to others for payment of goods or services.

I think this will snare a good amount of the kind of people that @Petra talks about. Even those that don't want to use a mobile phone currently will likely be pushed that way by a reduction of the flow of physical cash and the incentive of free phones preloaded with central bank and government apps.

I would like to be wrong, and I hope Petra's take on it is the case in reality, but there certainly is a big push in this direction.

[Organics]

9 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

Well it's already there, proven and established. I am not sure they can just switch it off. The problem is with centralised exchanges. They can stop that from being connected to cbdc but that's it. The one positive thing about crypto is it allows the world's unbanked to be banked, no need to have a passport and an address to get a wallet like you do to get a bank account and those in the third world have the opportunity to financially move forward. The problem with it in its current form is it's just a gloyfied gambling platform. 

You’re right. They won’t be able to switch it off “directly”. They’ll do it indirectly. There’s no way with their “global agenda” that they’re going to allow us mere mortals to have our own payment system which they can’t control and is outside their system. That’s why I started stacking PM’s. 🙏🙏🙏

[Organics]

8 hours ago, Petra said:

Cashless society is just like the paperless office. A few people wanted that but it never happened and never will. Whatever you like to think, the majority of people here use cash and always will. Any move to make them do otherwise will not succeed. These are the people who can only dream about buying and stacking gold or silver or gamble on the stock market or buy bit coin. It’s called the real world. Down at this end of society people may have a bank card etc. but still use cash. There’s a big enough fuss if they want to stop using a particular coin. I take payments through the bank for my business, however most people pay cash.

Hi 👋, It’s already happening. I’m originally from the U.K. and have family there. So keep an eye out on what’s happening there daily. More and more bank closures, removal of ATM’s and the ATM’s that are still there are having less and less money put in them daily. The bank’s justification is that more and more people are using internet banking and using cards to pay. Even for a coffee or small ticket price items. I was in IKEA over here the other day and I was shocked, having not been there for a year or so. All and I repeat ALL the cashiers were now automated and only one out of 20  accepted cash. I had to do something at the local town hall which cost €60 and tried to pay with cash. They asked me to pay with card as they held no cash. Petra, I truly, truly pray that I’m wrong and you’re right, but the evidence and what the global agenda want suggests otherwise 🙏🙏🙏

[Organics]

6 hours ago, Arganto said:

I think this will snare a good amount of the kind of people that @Petra talks about. Even those that don't want to use a mobile phone currently will likely be pushed that way by a reduction of the flow of physical cash and the incentive of free phones preloaded with central bank and government apps.

I would like to be wrong, and I hope Petra's take on it is the case in reality, but there certainly is a big push in this direction.

Exactly my sentiment too. They will make it seem attractive to go cashless and push all kinds of incentives. Once they’ve got you, they’ve got you. Silver/gold will allow you to stay outside the system. At least for some time anyway 🙏🙏🙏

[Organics]

8 hours ago, Uksilverstackers said:

Like someone said earlier most people already transact digitally, cards, phones, online, even our window cleaner has a card reader! etc and ultimately TPTB want everything cashless and I guess it’ll happen. We’ve all seen what happened to cash during Covid.

Another thing is, most kids today hardly use cash anyway and dont see anything wrong.

I agree with Organics above, cashless is a big worry and once specie starts to no longer be issued its doomed.

🙏🙏🙏

[Organics]

8 hours ago, greendragon said:

everything has a market value, what it is worth in fiat

what we are talking about here is a Black Market value

you couldn't use your silver or gold to buy items without entering the system

but, you could still buy black market items using it

drugs, weapons, illicit baccy, thing that " fall off the back of a waggon"

as long as someone else further down the line is happy to re-enter the system ( or launder the proceeds) its not a problem

you are just limited in what you can purchase.

but then again, there isn't much you CAN"T get under the counter these days

Hi 👋 

Yes you’re right. That’s what I’m a little concerned about the lack of stackers I’ve come across here in Portugal. It’s going to take a community of like minded people to barter in silver/gold to pay for things. However like you said, at some point someone has to enter the system to make the whole thing work. It will eventually catch up with us but how long can we delay the inevitable 🙏🙏🙏

[papi1980]

Interesting topic and sharing my views:)

I was born in a communist country and grew there as a kid until the Berlin Wall events happened. As you can imagine, totalitarian regimes have full control over the money supply and semi control over the money velocity (on what you spend on). Example: my father had to wait 5 years to buy a car, even that he had the money. The result is a rife black market which is very hard to be be controlled by the state. Example of barters I have seen: The car man will get you a car quicker if you help him refurbish his house.

Usually when the state introduces the CBDC or whatever controlled fiat, they will also introduce Universal income (the idea being that you will have free bread, vegetable, consumer goods) for your basic needs, but if you want luxuries you will need to earn those paying with a form of a credit score(like in China today)

That happened was also in the communist states in the past; to get a house you need to be a member of the communist party (otherwise you have to wait 20 years)

Owing PM was punishable, I remember we were were scared to talk about gold, since we might get into trouble   , but both silver and gold were much valued and accepted as barter  

Once CBDC and Universal income comes to the U.K. , all crypto will be decimated over night IMO. You will not be able to mine it anymore without authorities questioning you for the energy consumption or to exchange it (most exchanges will be shut). You might be able to spend it here and there, but majority of people who will barter something for you, will still prefer PM (no traceability of physical PM, nonperishable). Crypto could exist here and there but share of transactions will be much smaller in barter. 

As with any fiat, the CBDC will die eventually and then the cycle will start again with PM coming very much back into the states financial system

lets not forget also that both PM have also actual industrial usage…(even if you are living in a totalitarian state, the state will continue to use silver in electronics, dentistry, etc) 

hope that was useful 

 

[Arganto]

46 minutes ago, papi1980 said:

Interesting topic and sharing my views:)

I was born in a communist country

Any time you feel like sharing more 'boots on the ground' stories please do, whether in this thread or elsewhere. It's both fascinating and enlightening to read such things and offers insight into a situation many make assumptions over without actual first hand experience. 

[Uksilverstackers]

Just Say No To CBDC’s

[papi1980]

Thanks.  Something that I also wanted to share is that I remember that majority of the people and families during that time were quite happy to own nothing, but have a peace of mind. You have food, your neighbour has similar wealth as you, houses are similar, jobs are stable and no pressure to prove to anyone. There was a saying: ‘they pretend to pay me, I pretend to work for them’. That creates a huge lack of innovation, but the masses were absolutely ok. No rioting 

I  suspect, when Universal income / CBDC comes, most people will embrace it and will see it as a good solution. There will be Very little opposition, so it will happen without doubt.

I remember, innovative people and people who had the potential to do more (entrepreneurs, traders, craftsman) had a hard time. They were the ones that escaped the country and went to US, UK, Germany to make their dreams. They didn’t want to work 9-5 for peanuts. And they were the first to establish the black markets. You knew that John has a friend in the US that supplies audio cassettes and you want them, so John sells them to you for a piece of silver

But were also cases when your neighbour will spy on you and tell authorities if they suspect you own gold / silver. So many people decided to give their gold voluntarily to avoid troubles. 

[Uksilverstackers]

9 hours ago, ady said:

Will not your window cleaner and other similar profession, which are basically cash in hand eventually realize that a better recompense  might be a silver sixpence or a few satoshi. 

I think “eventually” sums it up... by which time it will be too late. 

[goldsilverdash]

11 hours ago, Organics said:

Thanks for responding 👍. The reason I feel (Perhaps wrongly) that using silver to barter/pay for goods and services, in more affluent countries, is because more people own it and understand it. I have tried to talk to people here about owning gold and silver and what’s going on in the world and they look at me as if I’m mad. 20% of Portuguese earn under €400 a month and the education system here is appalling. Believe me when I say that I pray that crypto gets mass adoption and becomes an accepted form of payment. I just can’t see “them” letting it exist in its current format, when they introduce their own CBDC’s 🙏🙏🙏

Even in more affluent countries, people look at you as if you were mad when you start talking about precious metals 😁

I think you are right that the economic understanding of the average person is appalling. However, even if people lack knowledge of precious metals, they do understand the general concept of barter very well. As soon as they take in that they will be able to exchange a silver coin for something they need, I think they will be willing to take it as payment for goods and services in situations where the national currency becomes worthless or stops working.

It is true that the political elites and the central bankers don't want to see alternative currencies spreading, but I think that even they are not powerful enough to stop it. Remember that cryptocurrencies are decentralized and lack a central point of failure. Even if they wanted to shut them down there is nothing specific for them to target. Also, the networks are spread across the entire globe, and even if a single government would make the use of cryptocurrencies difficult in one country, there will be other countries that will be more allowing. And if we ever get a “world government” and a “world central bank”, hopefully that will just prove to the people that alternatives are very much needed.

[goldsilverdash]

12 hours ago, SidS said:

The beauty of gold (and silver in a more limited way) is that it is portable.

Digital currencies require internet/computers etc. Bank accounts can be seized or frozen, not to mentioned be tracked and spied upon.

Gold and silver transcend boundaries and are recognised across cultures. Consider a situation like Ukraine, having to flee with what you can carry. National currencies are only of value really in the country they are issued in (except for reserve currencies perhaps). What happens if that country ceases to exist or is under international sanctions? A ounce of gold has value across all countries of the world. If you have to flee tyranny and you can take the gold with you, it can be bartered in any country on Earth.

I agree that gold is rather portable, but cryptocurrencies are even more so. Most people carry their devices with them everywhere, and even if you would lose your device you would still be able to restore your funds if you have backed up your seed phrase, which usually is 12 or 24 words. What could be more portable than that?

It is true that you need an internet connection to move funds, but you will not lose any funds because the internet is temporarily down in your location. A permanent outage of the internet on a global scale is extremely unlikely.

Also, the borderless nature of precious metals applies equally to cryptocurrencies (as opposed to CBDCs, which presumable would be issued by particular countries).

[goldsilverdash]

10 hours ago, Uksilverstackers said:

Like someone said earlier most people already transact digitally, cards, phones, online, even our window cleaner has a card reader! etc and ultimately TPTB want everything cashless and I guess it’ll happen. We’ve all seen what happened to cash during Covid.

Another thing is, most kids today hardly use cash anyway and dont see anything wrong.

I agree with Organics above, cashless is a big worry and once specie starts to no longer be issued its doomed.

I share this analysis and also the worry to some extent. However, I wouldn't be sad to see cash go IF there will be adequate alternatives that preserve the positive aspects of physical cash, such as its anonymity.

[goldsilverdash]

3 hours ago, Organics said:

Hi 👋 

Yes you’re right. That’s what I’m a little concerned about the lack of stackers I’ve come across here in Portugal. It’s going to take a community of like minded people to barter in silver/gold to pay for things. However like you said, at some point someone has to enter the system to make the whole thing work. It will eventually catch up with us but how long can we delay the inevitable 🙏🙏🙏

It may be hard to imagine, but it is not obvious that someone at some point HAS to re-enter the established monetary system. It is at least possible to establish economic relations that can exist entirely without banks or fiat currency. But you are probably right that it takes a community of like minded people to get something like that going, and precious metals could be a part of it.

[Organics]

18 hours ago, Uksilverstackers said:

Like someone said earlier most people already transact digitally, cards, phones, online, even our window cleaner has a card reader! etc and ultimately TPTB want everything cashless and I guess it’ll happen. We’ve all seen what happened to cash during Covid.

Another thing is, most kids today hardly use cash anyway and dont see anything wrong.

I agree with Organics above, cashless is a big worry and once specie starts to no longer be issued its doomed.

Hi 👋, Thank you for taking to respond and fully agree 👍👍👍. 

[Organics]

6 hours ago, goldsilverdash said:

It may be hard to imagine, but it is not obvious that someone at some point HAS to re-enter the established monetary system. It is at least possible to establish economic relations that can exist entirely without banks or fiat currency. But you are probably right that it takes a community of like minded people to get something like that going, and precious metals could be a part of it.

Precious metals are definitely part of the future. I guess it also depends on why someone started stacking in the first place too 🤔

[Organics]

8 hours ago, goldsilverdash said:

I share this analysis and also the worry to some extent. However, I wouldn't be sad to see cash go IF there will be adequate alternatives that preserve the positive aspects of physical cash, such as its anonymity.

That’s not part of the agenda. For anonymity to exist, you’d have to be underground and out of the system.

[Organics]

8 hours ago, papi1980 said:

Thanks.  Something that I also wanted to share is that I remember that majority of the people and families during that time were quite happy to own nothing, but have a peace of mind. You have food, your neighbour has similar wealth as you, houses are similar, jobs are stable and no pressure to prove to anyone. There was a saying: ‘they pretend to pay me, I pretend to work for them’. That creates a huge lack of innovation, but the masses were absolutely ok. No rioting 

I  suspect, when Universal income / CBDC comes, most people will embrace it and will see it as a good solution. There will be Very little opposition, so it will happen without doubt.

I remember, innovative people and people who had the potential to do more (entrepreneurs, traders, craftsman) had a hard time. They were the ones that escaped the country and went to US, UK, Germany to make their dreams. They didn’t want to work 9-5 for peanuts. And they were the first to establish the black markets. You knew that John has a friend in the US that supplies audio cassettes and you want them, so John sells them to you for a piece of silver

But were also cases when your neighbour will spy on you and tell authorities if they suspect you own gold / silver. So many people decided to give their gold voluntarily to avoid troubles. 

Hi 👋, Thank you so much for your detailed response. As another member stated, real life insights into what happened in the past, gives us all some clarity to what could happen in the future. UBI’s are also something I forgot about. CBDC’s and UBI’s together 😱😱😱. Your last paragraph is also very true and hence why no one knows about my stack and also world views. Especially my neighbours 🤷‍♂️. Thanks again 🙏🙏🙏

[Organics]

Hi All 👋

I want to say a BIG thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. 
 

So many interesting points and opinions raised and I think my question was answered. 
 

I want as many people to be mentally, physically, financially and even spiritually ready for what’s coming. So discussions like this are very important. 
 

So glad I found the forum and hope that my first topic and question made us all think a little more. 

Looking forward to being a beneficial contributor and member of the forum.

🙏🙏🙏

[HerefordBullyun]

as you are a newer member it maybe noteworthy to look at my video's of significance thread in my sig block it is all correlated either politically. socially with the WHY we stack PMs