Unknow error on 1878s Morgan Silver Dollar

[Allison]

Hi.  New here.  I’ve got an 1878s Morgan that appears to have missing wing portions on the inside middle right side (eagle’s left side anatomically). Can anyone help I’d this is a designated mint error?

[JackKlugman]

Are you sure that its not normal damage/wear ?

[Allison]

Absolutely.  The coin is XF.  Even on more worn Morgans this detail is there.  This area is a low spot on the coin so initial wear wouldn’t reach it.

[sovereignsteve]

I don't think it's a recognised VAM variety, probably caused by grease in the die.

[dicker]

Hi Allison,

Do you mean this bit?

[dicker]

Hi Allison,

Where did you get it from?

There are a few areas of 'weakness' in areas - the following is a good example - see 'flight' of arrows - the top line doesn't quite look right.  It could have just had a hard life...

Best Dicker

 

Allisons Coin.                                           Reference Coin

 

[Allison]

Yes, identical

[Allison]

40 minutes ago, dicker said:

Hi Allison,

Do you mean this bit?

 

[Allison]

Yes, any value?

[dicker]

Hi Allison

I didn’t think they are identical.

Did you buy from a dealer?

Best

Dicker

[Allison]

No, off eBay

[dicker]

Hi Allison,

A warm welcome to the forum.

It’s hard to tell if your coin is genuine from the photo to be honest.  

Photography of coins is tricky but to me it looks a little odd (but this can happen with flash and lighting).

I would carefully check the dimensions and weights…on accurate scales.

Dimensions as below.

Best

Dicker

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_dollar

 

[sovereignsteve]

Fake Morgans can be very tricky or very easy to spot in hand, a lot more difficult from photos.

[Allison]

The coin is legit.  26.7 gram, same diameter as my others.  Passes the magnet test and “tings” the same as others.

[Junior]

In my opinion, an XF Morgan should not still weigh 26.7 grams. That means it has only lost 0.03 grams compared to an uncirculated Morgan at 26.73 grams. Now assuming you used a scale that only goes to the nearest 1/10th of a gram, that would mean your Morgan would have to weigh 26.65 grams for your scale to round it up to 26.7 grams. Still not likely given the wear I am seeing. Now on to some pics.

I’m not liking the shape of this ‘O’

And this ‘O’ is identical to the one above. The ‘E’ is weak across the bottom.

This ‘O’ is the only one that has the right shape. Not squished across the bottom.

This is what the ‘O’ should look like.

As a guide, squishing of letters or weakness in devices or even missing parts of the wings are a sign that the coin was cast from counterfeit die. Normally the die itself was copied from a legit coin and thus the details don’t always transfer properly. This leaves behind obvious differences that we think could be errors. The only error was the counterfeiter.

And San Francisco was the only mint that took great pride in their strikes. They struck their coins slowly, with the correct die spacing between the plates, and they replaced their dies before the expected life expectancy was reached. This lead to greater sharpness in coin details. The devices on your coin are weak; and not merely because of the wear.

My conclusion, this is a fake coin judging purely by the single photo you have provided us.

[dicker]

Our friend Allison, whose polite and delicately crafted prose has not been back for some time.

@Junior I think out words may have been wasted on this occasion.  
 

Best

Dicker

[GoldDiggerDave]

Interesting post. 

[LawrenceChard]

On 07/02/2022 at 12:04, Allison said:

Hi.  New here.  I’ve got an 1878s Morgan that appears to have missing wing portions on the inside middle right side (eagle’s left side anatomically). Can anyone help I’d this is a designated mint error?

Looks like a Chinese fake to me, although some of the Chinese ones look better than this.

Look at the grainy / greasy looking areas in the field and parts of the relief.

A better photo, and an obverse photo might help.

Even with the existing photo, there appear to be a number of raised pimples, which are always a bad sign.

I think a few other TSF members have reached a similar conclusion.

😎

Edited February 18, 2022 by LawrenceChard

[LawrenceChard]

On 07/02/2022 at 22:45, Allison said:

The coin is legit.  

Really?

😎

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, dicker said:

Our friend Allison, whose polite and delicately crafted prose has not been back for some time.

@Junior I think out words may have been wasted on this occasion.  
 

Best

Dicker

@Allison is obviously an expert numismatist, who can tell his coin is "legit", and has clearly realised that you lot are trying to plant seeds of doubt into his mind, probably in a cunning attempt to try and acquire an extremely rare, unlisted Van Allen & Mallis error.

As this coin's provenance was from the world renowned ebay, it must be genuine.

It's hardly surprising he has seen through the cunning ruse, and chosen not to share his knowledge and expertise with us.

Still, we can't always expect to know (or Unknow) it all, can we?😎

 

 

[dicker]

I could not agree more @LawrenceChard.  

I am categorically don’t class my self as a numismatist, but I spend time finding and reading research on Morgan Dollars and Peace Dollars, counterfeits, the means of counterfeiting. (A side amusement from Sovereigns).

The Mark 1 eyeball usually tells you all you need to know (loupe or not) but high definition photos are hugely useful and interesting.   

I often think of the idiom “There are none so blind as those who will not see”

Best

Dicker

 

[MetalMandible]

Shame you got bamboozled on your Chinese Morgan.  Ebay buyers beware!

[GoldDiggerDave]

42 minutes ago, MetalMandible said:

Shame you got bamboozled on your Chinese Morgan.  Ebay buyers beware!

What you talking about mate it passed the "ting test" 😂   It's got to be real.  

[MetalMandible]

28 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

What you talking about mate it passed the "ting test" 😂   It's got to be real.  

Ah yes, the tried and true "ting test". 

 

 

[Happypanda88]

I only just spotted this thread !

The coin doesn't look right. The lettering is wrong as pointed out. The rim, weak strike and colour.

The OP hasn't logged back on since the bad news. I guess the OP quickly requested a refund off the ebay seller !