Returning to the uk with a large quantity of Platinum coins

[joejet]

Hi I have lived overseas for over 7 years (caribbean)and have been investing in Platinum, I currently have a mix of coins and bars and have spoken to my dealer here about swapping (paying a small premium) all my non uk products to uk royal mint platinum Britannia’s (I want to swap them for the CGT relieve in the future)

I plan to move back after next april 2022 so everything I own will be over 6 months old at least. Does anyone have experience of flying in with approx 100oz  I will be applying for a transfer of residence relief TOR1 but will I have to pay any duty or VAT? I believe they are allowed as a personal personal possession as long as they are over 6 months. (i also have some gold and silver but I might sell off the silver as it’s bulky)

I have all the documentation to prove where the money came form and how it was earned just worried about the duty side of things. 

I also will be traveling with some watches and jewelry again all over 6 months old any issues with these ?

Thanks

J

 

 

[Pete]

You might care to check out the official UK government website www.gov.uk
There is guidance on the transfer of residence relief ( ToR1 ) which must be completed in advance.
 

[joejet]

Thanks I have seen that just wondering if anyone else has done this, as I am potentially saving the VAT on Platinum so if it works it’s a once in a lifetime chance to save the 20% From what I can see anything under this relief has to be owned 6 months before leaving and not sold for 12 months after. I have been holding Platinum for a few years now and don’t intend to sell unless I really need it.

 

 

 

 

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

You might care to check out the official UK government website www.gov.uk
There is guidance on the transfer of residence relief ( ToR1 ) which must be completed in advance.
 

 

51 minutes ago, joejet said:

Thanks I have seen that just wondering if anyone else has done this, as I am potentially saving the VAT on Platinum so if it works it’s a once in a lifetime chance to save the 20% From what I can see anything under this relief has to be owned 6 months before leaving and not sold for 12 months after. I have been holding Platinum for a few years now and don’t intend to sell unless I really need it.

 

 

6 hours ago, joejet said:

Hi I have lived overseas for over 7 years (caribbean)and have been investing in Platinum, I currently have a mix of coins and bars and have spoken to my dealer here about swapping (paying a small premium) all my non uk products to uk royal mint platinum Britannia’s (I want to swap them for the CGT relieve in the future)

I plan to move back after next april 2022 so everything I own will be over 6 months old at least. Does anyone have experience of flying in with approx 100oz  I will be applying for a transfer of residence relief TOR1 but will I have to pay any duty or VAT? I believe they are allowed as a personal personal possession as long as they are over 6 months. (i also have some gold and silver but I might sell off the silver as it’s bulky)

I have all the documentation to prove where the money came form and how it was earned just worried about the duty side of things. 

I also will be traveling with some watches and jewelry again all over 6 months old any issues with these ?

Thanks

J

I guess you mean 100 ounces of platinum.

You could just try leaving it in storage outside the UK, but probably not easy to arrange.

I suggest writing formally to HMRC, tell them the position, and ask for their written advice. Be prepared to argue your case if you think they are wrong, which they often are (50%?).

If the answer suits you, bring a copy of it with you when you arrive.

 

[joejet]

Thanks Lawrence 

I will send them a letter and see what they say, if they say no I guess I could liquidate here and repurchase via you. I am going to have swap out for Britannia’s anyway.

 

Will come back here once i get an answer.

 

 

 

 

[Scuzzle]

Can you get platinum coins that have a face value?, I've taken gold coins overseas before and I declare the £100 face value rather than the intrinsic value.  You are perfectly within your rights to do this.

[TringSilver]

1 hour ago, Scuzzle said:

Can you get platinum coins that have a face value?, I've taken gold coins overseas before and I declare the £100 face value rather than the intrinsic value.  You are perfectly within your rights to do this.

Good point, he will have as changing to Brits so £100x 100 will be £10,000. 

Might fall foul of the cash limits though

[joejet]

I guess I could dress up wear a top hat and pretend I am some super rich 1800’s gent and only use them as cash.  

It iwould be a huge risk though.

 I am swapping the coins to Britannia’s as they do have £100 fave value and more importantly are Capital Gains Tax except.

J

 

[MancunianStacker]

Could you not post it back in 100 x small parcels? Maybe to a family member. Not sure what the postal service is like over there though 🤷‍♂️ 

[joejet]

I think with the cost and reliability of the Postal system from here I would be better training a homing pigeon :)

 

[Roy]

3 hours ago, TringSilver said:

Might fall foul of the cash limits though

Married/kids?

[Coverte]

13 hours ago, joejet said:

Thanks Lawrence 

I will send them a letter and see what they say, if they say no I guess I could liquidate here and repurchase via you. I am going to have swap out for Britannia’s anyway.

Will come back here once i get an answer.

 

 

 

 

Before you send a letter, try and get a name to send it to; also use signed for.

I had an issue with them in 2019 prior to using the global WWD facility and found getting  a meaningful reply for anything not mundane, for which simply pointed me to their website, simply didn't happen.

Regardless of what you do, expect further questions etc at the entry point, they do not all interpret rules/legislation the same and exclusion lists are growing.

[joejet]

27 minutes ago, Roy said:

Married/kids?

Yes but the 10k is a family limit, well if we fly together.

Anyway I can declare over 10k in cash its easy its just the fact it's worth a lot more, not really worth the risk

[Roy]

Ok.

The problem then is your lack of research. Who buys 100oz of physical Platinum?

You should have bought gold. Can your local man facilitate a fair platinum/gold exchange?

 

[joejet]

3 hours ago, Roy said:

Ok.

The problem then is your lack of research. Who buys 100oz of physical Platinum?

You should have bought gold. Can your local man facilitate a fair platinum/gold exchange?

 

Well firstly I also hold gold but platinum has a lot of long term industrial applications in fuel cell electric vehicles I believe in 10+ years it will outpace Gold.

[Roy]

Yes, yes, yes, so they tell me but you could've had exposure to platinum in easier ways.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh but my words, however succinct, are nevertheless sincere.

We have a mantra on the forum that before you buy anything, you must work out an exit strategy. You appear to have caused an unnecessary problem for yourself!

Still, that doesn't help much does it?

Moving forward, would it be possible/easy to travel to the states to trade your platinum for gold/fiat and review your stacking plans? I believe they have less punitive tax regimes concerning precious metals?

I had a brief look at the ToR1, looks like a headache.

Roy

 

 

[joejet]

i have to do the ToR1 anyway so if i can get the platinum into the uk under this scheme I save the 20% VAT hey I could convert all my cash to platinum get it to the UK and sell it a year later and make 20% with no change in the market, but that’s not my plan.

I can change to Gold here but I really want the platinum long term, Yes i am also holding gold and silver but the silver is going it’s too heavy to travel with and if i put it in the shipping container it’s just a pain with insurance, not like it’s hard to buy back in the UK.

 

Imhave not seen any articles that totally trash platinum, yes cars are using less but I have read some white papers form the chemical industry calling for more platinum for production benefits. 

 

thanks 

 

[Roy]

Ah, if you have to use ToR1 anyway, then then it won't hurt to try. Yes, you could make nice gains that way if you wanted.

I'm not trashing platinum, I hold platinum too, but not much physical. I prefer vaulted.

Selling platinum in the UK is not as easy as selling gold.

Hatton Garden Metals are currently offering £655/oz 

[Pete]

On 15/06/2021 at 15:27, Roy said:

Ok.

The problem then is your lack of research. Who buys 100oz of physical Platinum?

You should have bought gold. Can your local man facilitate a fair platinum/gold exchange?

 

I would buy 100 ounces of Platinum if the premium was reasonable and there wasn't any VAT on top.
The platinum I managed to buy last March is doing extremely well, up 50%, whereas the gold has barely moved.
Wish I could have bought many more Platinum Queens Beasts and Britannias from the European Mint back then as who would have guessed how the charts would look.

[silvernewbie]

Can you not make a few journeys and carry the coins on you in a tube.  I have never had issues with tubes of silver in my luggage

[Uksilverstackers]

What about liquidating and use the funds to buy Platinum via Bullionvault (VAT Free), then just pull out what you need to buy physical when you get here?

Always a third party risk but....

Edited July 18, 2021 by Uksilverstackers

[Wileyfox]

I like Platinum and have a position with Bullionvault. I have always found Bullionvault has worked well for me (though there is a third party risk, I'd be more concerned with it being an easy target for some new government regulation/capital controls). I guess the issue the OP has is the cost of transaction in switching between vaulted/fiat and physical coins especially with the VAT situation here. I had always avoided buying silver and platinum coins for this reason. It was only when I found this forum late last year that I realised that there was a good potenial to buy/sell peer to peer thus avoiding vat and transaction costs.

I'd be quite interested in making a market for platinum coins, I'll write a separate post about this later today.

[LawrenceChard]

On 16/06/2021 at 04:03, Roy said:

Ah, if you have to use ToR1 anyway, then then it won't hurt to try. Yes, you could make nice gains that way if you wanted.

I'm not trashing platinum, I hold platinum too, but not much physical. I prefer vaulted.

Selling platinum in the UK is not as easy as selling gold.

Hatton Garden Metals are currently offering £655/oz 

Wow!, on 16th June, @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer would have been paying between about £800 and £820 per ounce, if I can rely on our price graph from:

https://www.chards.co.uk/platinum-price/ounce/gbp/3-month

... and snatching people's proverbial hand off! 🙂

[CageFree]

Curious why gold is easier to deal with than platinum in OPs situation. Is it just the liquidity of the coins or a regulatory reason in UK that makes gold easier to transport?

I live in the U.S., but my home is one of the EU countries, so I do wonder if I ever moved back, what my options would be to transport my coins.

Like the OP, I would like to be able to transport my platinum eagles and britannias when I return. 

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. Please keep us posted on how it plays out for you OP.

[ShadowTriad]

2 hours ago, CageFree said:

Curious why gold is easier to deal with than platinum in OPs situation. Is it just the liquidity of the coins or a regulatory reason in UK that makes gold easier to transport?

I live in the U.S., but my home is one of the EU countries, so I do wonder if I ever moved back, what my options would be to transport my coins.

Like the OP, I would like to be able to transport my platinum eagles and britannias when I return. 

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. Please keep us posted on how it plays out for you OP.

It is because platinum is subject to VAT and gold is not in the UK so it is easier to deal with gold as you don't have to deal with HMRC that will find any old excuse to tax you anyway.