Grading Sovereigns, NGC or PCGS?

[Fivepoundfred]

9 hours ago, SilverJacks said:

@sovereignsteve I seem to remember hearing somewhere that PCGS have higher standards, at least in some regards. Like a PCGS 70 might count for more than a NGC 70.  Would you agree with this in any way?

I graded with PCGS for many years and prefer their holder but i found from experience that they could be a little mean grading modern proof coins, they did not seem to be keen on allowing for very small production defects, NGC appeared to be a little more tolerant with this.

However if you look at the current PGCS 70 grade definition it quotes that they will allow for as minted flaws as long as they are small and do not impact eye appeal of the coin.

 

[GoldenGriffin]

20 hours ago, Foster88 said:

Perhaps PCGS would be the better option, do you think?

I’m not aware of any ‘middle man’ service with PCGS or is it possible to send directly?

If you do choose to go with PCGS, just to make you aware regarding the 3 membership options;

1) Silver membership have no vouchers included and is $69.

2) Gold membership have 4 x vouchers at $149.

3) Platinum membership have 8 x vouchers at $249.

With the vouchers, you can't use them for the restoration service, so if you need restoration service, then the Silver membership may be the best option for you.

I don't think you can submit a mixture of coins that would use the vouchers AND request the restoration service for other coins in your submission that aren't using the vouchers.  Once your vouchers are used, you can then request the restoration service for subsequent submissions.

If you download the app to your phone, you can easily track your submission.

I've got a 2021 gold proof sovereign that's been graded and it's just going through the imaging, encapsulation and final grade checking before it's shipped back to me.

Fingers crossed for a PR70! 🤞

Edited May 30, 2021 by GoldenGriffin
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[sovereignsteve]

15 hours ago, SilverJacks said:

@sovereignsteve I seem to remember hearing somewhere that PCGS have higher standards, at least in some regards. Like a PCGS 70 might count for more than a NGC 70.  Would you agree with this in any way?

Officially, no, their standards are the same as NGC on paper. However, with modern proofs you've only got to look at the pops,  PCGS consistently grade fewer coins at 70. I've lost count of the number of PCGS 69 grades that have gone to NGC and achieved a 70.

Maybe it would work the other way as well but I don't know anyone who's tried it.😄

[sovereignsteve]

15 hours ago, Foster88 said:

It would seem that way with regards to sovereigns.

In my limited experience grading sovereigns, I don't think it's that simple.

I couldn't say one way or the other which one had higher standards. I do however think on balance that PCGS is more consistent. I have been left scratching my head at the results of some older sovs with NGC.

If I were to be pushed, I would say NGC are easier on 20th century sovs but tend to be more exacting with older ones especially shields. I find I agree more with PCGS grading of the older ones.

[sovereignsteve]

39 minutes ago, GoldenGriffin said:

If you do choose to go with PCGS, just to make you aware regarding the 3 membership options;

1) Silver membership have no vouchers included and is $69.

2) Gold membership have 4 x vouchers at $149.

3) Platinum membership have 8 x vouchers

Unless they've changed it recently, you can only use your vouchers when using PCGS USA not Europe.

[GoldenGriffin]

56 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Unless they've changed it recently, you can only use your vouchers when using PCGS USA not Europe.

It was very recent, I asked for restoration on some coins, but couldn't use the vouchers for restoration, so had to make a decision and decided that coins weren't getting restoration and used the vouchers instead.

All vouchers will be used after latest submission, so I can use restoration service from now on.

[Richym99]

On 27/05/2021 at 17:51, Richym99 said:

I was told by Louise at Coins of the Realm that the turn around is generally about six weeks when I submitted coins for conservation and grading last week.

You should know how they have been graded before that time.

If you go through CoR, they do all the leg work for you.

 

I had a call off Louise today, to let me know the grading for the six sovs I sent for conservation and grading had been graded. So on target for getting them back about two months after submission.  

Very happy with the grades too. 2 x PF70 UCam (1980 and 2009), 2018 SotD Prince George 5th B/day MS70 DPL, 2012 SotD Jubilee MS66 DPL, 1962 MS64 and an 1895m AU58. 

[Foster88]

3 hours ago, Richym99 said:

I had a call off Louise today, to let me know the grading for the six sovs I sent for conservation and grading had been graded. So on target for getting them back about two months after submission.  

Very happy with the grades too. 2 x PF70 UCam (1980 and 2009), 2018 SotD Prince George 5th B/day MS70 DPL, 2012 SotD Jubilee MS66 DPL, 1962 MS64 and an 1895m AU58. 

That sounds like you did well with your sovereigns, well done.

Were these graded with NGC or PCGS?

[kimchi]

On 30/05/2021 at 17:34, GoldenGriffin said:

It was very recent, I asked for restoration on some coins, but couldn't use the vouchers for restoration, so had to make a decision and decided that coins weren't getting restoration and used the vouchers instead.

All vouchers will be used after latest submission, so I can use restoration service from now on.

It seems ridiculous that you can't pay extra for restoration on coins graded with vouchers. Is that the same with NGC and conservation anyone? Not something I've had to consider before, but strange to hear about.

[Richym99]

4 hours ago, Foster88 said:

That sounds like you did well with your sovereigns, well done.

Were these graded with NGC or PCGS?

That was NGC, using the arrangement that TSF has with @coinsoftherealm to make things simpler for submissions. They will be coming back with TSF labels too. 

[StackemHigh]

It's a personal preference but i went with NGC and i got some NGC storage boxes too for my few graded slabs 21 in all.

[SilverStorm]

On 30/05/2021 at 02:08, Fivepoundfred said:

I graded with PCGS for many years and prefer their holder but i found from experience that they could be a little mean grading modern proof coins, they did not seem to be keen on allowing for very small production defects, NGC appeared to be a little more tolerant with this.

However if you look at the current PGCS 70 grade definition it quotes that they will allow for as minted flaws as long as they are small and do not impact eye appeal of the coin.

 

I mentioned about the grading standards in the thread below, which is somewhat similar to your observation.

 

[DHagon97]

Personally prefer the white surround of the NGC slabs as it shows off the bright gold better however populations particularly in modern coins seem much higher, whether that is a good thing or not depends on your own personal outlook, obviously the more on the census means they are more common and easier to find therefore carry a smaller premium but also does it perhaps mean that the modern collector prefer the NGC slab therefore appealing to a wider audience? Im not sure but I use NGC!

[marston59]

I use PCGS in Europe, I have sent many NGC gold proof PF70 coins for crossover only to find they DNC.

I believe PCGS coins in PR70 are of a higher standard.

[JJH]

I bought a set of 2017 britannia from eBay in the United States. The number is 1. Although I have not verified it (who can tell me how many ounces of silver coins should be in the pcgs box) regardless of the authenticity of the number certificate, the silver coins seem to be genuine, it is estimated that the US apmex Send it to the version released after scoring so it is the firststrike。But I found that there are scratches on the front and back of the coin at the same place. The presence of stains is not only in the proof, but also in the reverse proof.I don’t believe that this is a defect of the coin factory and it is very serious. When the coin sent for authentication within 30 days has defects in the same position on both sides, I guess this is a problem when it is held or packaged. Sorry that the last one is not clear, but can anyone tell me the weight of the 1oz silver coin in the pcgs box?

[SilverStorm]

16 hours ago, JJH said:

I bought a set of 2017 britannia from eBay in the United States. The number is 1. Although I have not verified it (who can tell me how many ounces of silver coins should be in the pcgs box) regardless of the authenticity of the number certificate, the silver coins seem to be genuine, it is estimated that the US apmex Send it to the version released after scoring so it is the firststrike。But I found that there are scratches on the front and back of the coin at the same place. The presence of stains is not only in the proof, but also in the reverse proof.I don’t believe that this is a defect of the coin factory and it is very serious. When the coin sent for authentication within 30 days has defects in the same position on both sides, I guess this is a problem when it is held or packaged. Sorry that the last one is not clear, but can anyone tell me the weight of the 1oz silver coin in the pcgs box?

In my limited experience, the 2 NGC slabbed coins I have are both first releases (graded SP69 and PF70 respectively).  Both have no marks of any kind.   So looking at your pictures, I feel a bit uneasy as I would definitely not expect to see those kind of scratches on a first strike slabbed coin, which is typically PF70 condition.   

When you say there are marks on both the front and back of the coin in the same spot, it leads me to believe that your slab was opened and tampered with.  It is pure conjecture on my part, and perhaps someone else reading this can chime in and provide additional input.  

I recommend you check PCGS website and confirm with their Registry that your coin is authentic.  

Edited July 25, 2021 by SilverStorm

[JJH]

6 hours ago, SilverStorm said:

In my limited experience, the 2 NGC slabbed coins I have are both first releases (graded SP69 and PF70 respectively).  Both have no marks of any kind.   So looking at your pictures, I feel a bit uneasy as I would definitely not expect to see those kind of scratches on a first strike slabbed coin, which is typically PF70 condition.   

When you say there are marks on both the front and back of the coin in the same spot, it leads me to believe that your slab was opened and tampered with.  It is pure conjecture on my part, and perhaps someone else reading this can chime in and provide additional input.  

I recommend you check PCGS website and confirm with their Registry that your coin is authentic.  

slab was opened and tampered?Is it really possible to be done by professionals who are not appraisal institutions?Okay, I will try to contact PCGS, but many coins that have not been opened and tampered with NGC and PCGS also have many problems such as oxidation. After all, it has been 4 years since they were on sale. Can they still know the authenticity? I originally thought that the reason for this was because they didn’t wear gloves. After all, there are many modern puzzle coins sent by other colleagues for appraisal. The rating is 70 points, but the puzzle was removed when they were packaged.

[SilverJacks]

@JJH The slabs are meant to be tamper-proof. I’m not sure whether it’s possible to open and close them without leaving obvious signs of damage.

as previously mentioned, you can go on pcgs website and easily type in the number on the slab to see the pictures of the coins in the condition they were in when graded. No need to call them.

I have limited experience also, but I’m of the understanding that damage done to coins during minting can sometimes be quite surprising. I’m leaning towards the idea that those flaws are part of the minting process, your coins and their grades are legit.

[SilverStorm]

2 hours ago, SilverJacks said:

@JJH The slabs are meant to be tamper-proof. I’m not sure whether it’s possible to open and close them without leaving obvious signs of damage.

as previously mentioned, you can go on pcgs website and easily type in the number on the slab to see the pictures of the coins in the condition they were in when graded. No need to call them.

I have limited experience also, but I’m of the understanding that damage done to coins during minting can sometimes be quite surprising. I’m leaning towards the idea that those flaws are part of the minting process, your coins and their grades are legit.

Good point, you are right about the slabs being tamper proof.  Forgot about that.  

@JJH make sure your slabs show no evidence of tampering.  If possible confirm pictures on PCGS registry to your coin.  If the registry pictures show the same marks as on your coin, then you know that was the same condition PCGS received them in before slabbing it.  

[Chorlton]

As above compare to the PCGS registry photos and that will help a lot if available. Also worth researching coins to see if they have common issues or faults. Even looking on EBay and the internet more generally at photos of the same coin should show this up especially for unusual rapid toning, milking and hazing etc. For example the queens beasts silver proofs can have a variety of issues, some of which only show up after a while. Older silver coins tend to have settled and age at a normal rate.

[JJH]

@SilverStorm @SilverJacks  @ChorltonThe point is both of two coins of my picture on pcgs are not show any photo……

[SilverJacks]

6 minutes ago, JJH said:

@SilverStorm @SilverJacks  @ChorltonThe point is both of two coins of my picture on pcgs are not show any photo……

I see. Could you provide photos showing all of the slabs clearly. Maybe another member could share their experience with pcgs slabs...

You could even start a new topic on this. It may reach more people that would be happy to help, if possible.

[JJH]

1 hour ago, SilverJacks said:

I see. Could you provide photos showing all of the slabs clearly. Maybe another member could share their experience with pcgs slabs...

You could even start a new topic on this. It may reach more people that would be happy to help, if possible.

good idea. i will take more picture these day and a new topic

[marston59]

There are no photos on the PCGS site as the original owner only paid for the standard service.

I would send the coin/s to PCGS for re-grading, then coin/s would be authenticated, but you may receive a lower grade.

 

[JJH]

7 minutes ago, marston59 said:

There are no photos on the PCGS site as the original owner only paid for the standard service.

I would send the coin/s to PCGS for re-grading, then coin/s would be authenticated, but you may receive a lower grade.

 

so this point is NGC better because they always take pictures