Does it bother you in the U.K. that the queen is on coins?

[Shep]

1 hour ago, Toshunya86 said:

I do not despise protestants as people - I respect them - especially when they are good Christians , but I feel sorry for them that they are being misled into a false Christianity.

While I’ve found this thread very interesting to read, I don’t feel this forum is an appropriate place to label another’s belief “false”.

1 hour ago, Toshunya86 said:

Catholicism as a whole was nearly unbeatable with a good Pope (Middle ages has shown this )

Unbeatable in what sense of the word? As conquerors? - I’m not so sure that’s something to be proud of.

[Notafront4adragon]

9 minutes ago, KDave said:

An unexplained event that should be impossible. That happens all the time in Quantum mechanics. Miracles all day every day. 

Burning bush - stop reading the text literally and it makes more sense 

Ok what happened to headline grabbing big simple miracles not ones that require many years of study. 

I agree it's probably not meant literally, but as I said it certainly would clear a few bits up if a tree caught fire and started laying down truth bombs. 

Or a ginger cow.

 

[Toshunya86]

10 minutes ago, Shep said:

While I’ve found this thread very interesting to read, I don’t feel this forum is an appropriate place to label another’s belief “false”.

Unbeatable in what sense of the word? As conquerors? - I’m not so sure that’s something to be proud of.

False in my perspective of course. Bear in mind English is not my native language . I could say maybe erroneous? Subverted ? Wrong ? Deceptive ? 

 

Unbeatable in everything , but since you are ( in a not so subtile way ) trying to paint me as a monster or a genocider ; I will go that road with you : the only high scale genocide Catholicism has done was in South America . Surely you would have preferred the sacrifices of kids done by the locals before catholicism stepped in ?

Why shouldn't catholics be proud of the conquests ? ( Which by the way we're an answer to assaults from the umeyyad for centuries )

Aren't you proud of what you are ? 

[Notafront4adragon]

2 minutes ago, Toshunya86 said:

False in my perspective of course. Bear in mind English is not my native language . I could say maybe erroneous? Subverted ? Wrong ? Deceptive ? 

 

Unbeatable in everything , but since you are ( in a not so subtile way ) trying to paint me as a monster or a genocider ; I will go that road with you : the only high scale genocide Catholicism has done was in South America . Surely you would have preferred the sacrifices of kids done by the locals before catholicism stepped in ?

Oh well if it's just a little bit of genocide then that's ok.

Catholicism has far more to answer for I'm afraid. From cults of suffering (mother Teresa) who would rather young children suffer than receive medical care, to helping the mafia lauder billions in wealth extracted from human misery, and of course the sustained and institutional paedophilia. That's just in the 20th century. 

[Martlet]

13 minutes ago, Toshunya86 said:

False in my perspective of course. Bear in mind English is not my native language . I could say maybe erroneous? Subverted ? Wrong ? Deceptive ? 

Language is not the problem here, but the position that one church is more righteous than the other.  What authority do you have to say Catholicism is superior?  What about one of the others?  Greek Othodox and Coptic both pre-date it, are they not more true?

[Shep]

16 minutes ago, Toshunya86 said:

Unbeatable in everything , but since you are ( in a not so subtile way ) trying to paint me as a monster or a genocider ; I will go that road with you : the only high scale genocide Catholicism has done was in South America . Surely you would have preferred the sacrifices of kids done by the locals before catholicism stepped in ?

I’m not trying to paint you as a monster at all. 

My point was simply that is it not far too simplistic to claim that your belief is the one true “unbeatable” and that all others are wrong?

Catholicism historically has many evil deeds to answer for - as do most, if not all other religions.

It is far from perfect and as a Catholic myself, i feel it’s very important to reflect on that fact.

[CadmiumGreen]

Two cannibals are eating an atheist, and one says to the other, "Can you believe the way this guy tastes?" 😬

[CadmiumGreen]

Of which, I think I ate @Melon’s god this evening for dinner.😳 But it was tasty...please forgive me as I have sinned. 🥺

[KDave]

16 minutes ago, Martlet said:

Illogical argument, you have made the assertion, you expand on or defend it.  Asking someone who doesnt believe something to explain that thing is just a straw man. 

Have you considered Buddism?

Sure I will accept that, fair enough.

I wish to point out that Satanism and Atheism are the same both in the rejection of God and the tenant to live as you want. It is a value free judgement, practically they are the same, consequentially, I expect they will have a similar outcome, intended or not.

Buddhism appears to be quite practical compared to monotheism, and more built around states of being, with the same conceptual promises of 'enlightenment' as perhaps an end goal state of being (I believe incorrectly interpreted as an afterlife). I have 'in the Buddhas words' on the reading list but its a long list. Have you studied it?  

[KDave]

17 minutes ago, CadmiumGreen said:

Of which, I think I ate @Melon’s god this evening for dinner.😳 But it was tasty...please forgive me as I have sinned. 🥺

Burn the heresy

[Shep]

35 minutes ago, Toshunya86 said:

Why shouldn't catholics be proud of the conquests ? ( Which by the way we're an answer to assaults from the umeyyad for centuries )

No I’m not proud of the crusades.

The slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in the name of holy wars is nothing to be proud of in my humble opinion.

And the argument of “the Muslims did it too/first” is definitely not good enough justification.

 

38 minutes ago, Toshunya86 said:

Aren't you proud of what you are ? 

Of course I am, but that doesn’t absolve my belief of all criticism. Blindly following a faith is destructive and dangerous, and as history has shown, leads to all manners of evil.

[Melon]

22 minutes ago, CadmiumGreen said:

Of which, I think I ate @Melon’s god this evening for dinner.😳 But it was tasty...please forgive me as I have sinned. 🥺

You consumed The Noodly Appendage? This is good news indeed, he has granted you a year of good fortune. 

[CadmiumGreen]

Just now, Melon said:

You consumed The Noodly Appendage? This is good news indeed, he has granted you a year of good fortune. 

Thank you...at least I have that going for me.🙄

[Melon]

My honest observation is that it’s humorous  when people try to defend their god. It’s like they don’t realise there’s hundreds of gods right now, tens of thousands of gods in human history. What makes your god special from the tens of thousands of other inventions which people wholeheartedly believed in and ‘felt a connection’ with? The answer is nothing. You’d be better off believing facts then fiction. 
 

That said, I don’t really care what people believe in their personal life. But if you come on a public forum preaching your nonsense, don’t blame me for calling out your worship of an invisible fairy as nonsense. 

[KDave]

Just now, Melon said:

My honest observation is that it’s humorous  when people try to defend their god. It’s like they don’t realise there’s hundreds of gods right now, tens of thousands of gods in human history. What makes your god special from the tens of thousands of other inventions which people wholeheartedly believed in and ‘felt a connection’ with? The answer is nothing. You’d be better off believing facts then fiction. 
 

That said, I don’t really care what people believe in their personal life. But if you come on a public forum preaching your nonsense, don’t blame me for calling out your worship of an invisible fairy as nonsense. 

I agree with this in principle, whatever gets people through the day. My kids believe in the tooth fairy and it helps them with their tooth related pain and suffering. If they were older and more developed, perhaps I might explain another way, but they are low iq children at the moment, hence the need for charecters and not concepts. 

But principle aside, what are you saying? Are you rejecting God as a sky fairy or rejecting the teachings of the entire religion? The way I see it, the first position is reasonable and the second is fanatically unreasonable. There is much to learn, much value in the ideas, even the idea of God itself, regardless of interpretation in my view.

[Notafront4adragon]

36 minutes ago, CadmiumGreen said:

Of which, I think I ate @Melon’s god this evening for dinner.😳 But it was tasty...please forgive me as I have sinned. 🥺

Consume your God like all good Catholics.

[Notafront4adragon]

Also no it doesn't bother me that the Queen's on UK coins. She's the queen it's one of the perks that money has your face on it. 

Although I've recently started enjoying French Francs because they don't always have a rulers face on them and I find their designs aesthetically pleasing. In truth the sovereign can get a bit boring bar shieldbacks.

[Melon]

22 minutes ago, KDave said:

I agree with this in principle, whatever gets people through the day. My kids believe in the tooth fairy and it helps them with their tooth related pain and suffering. If they were older and more developed, perhaps I might explain another way, but they are low iq children at the moment, hence the need for charecters and not concepts. 

But principle aside, what are you saying? Are you rejecting God as a sky fairy or rejecting the teachings of the entire religion? The way I see it, the first position is reasonable and the second is fanatically unreasonable. There is much to learn, much value in the ideas, even the idea of God itself, regardless of interpretation in my view.

Why is it unreasonable? What do I need religion for if I have morality, reason and logic? What value does an ancient book written by people living in a time when everything had to be explained by mysterious fairies have to me? 
 

I don’t blame the writers of the various religious texts, but times have moved on and we know more. We don’t need to believe the fairytale. For what it’s worth I don’t blame the religious people either, in 99.9% of cases they are just following the narrative they were indoctrinated into as impressionable children. It’s gross when you think about it. 

[KDave]

Reason and logic are only tools to work things out not templates for states of being. Should we just treat life as an experiment when you are just as likely to get things catastrophically wrong in your experimentation as getting things right. Do you want the outcome of your life to be based on the results of blind experimentation, ultimately fortune. Its not reasonable or logical to ignore past experience and observation that has a proven track record - religion. On morality, who's morality do we use? We can use anyone's, Hitler's, Stalin's, whoever you want. You must see the problem?

Is belief in santa also gross indoctrination? 

[KDave]

Perhaps Greek mythology should also be banned as indoctrination. Full of fairytales. No value there whatsoever. 

[Guest]

This thread is off topic for now. I put up with it for a while (not mad at anyone or don't really care as it does happen). Only going to respond to the original topic myself for now.

I think people might be done though or some might wander in to respond at this point.

I'd recommend someone starts a new topic / new discussion somewhere else.

-----

I definitely started quite the conversation though. Just so far off topic as this point at times. I don't mind talking about or discussing Christianity for that matter or Catholic / Lutheran type stuff myself. I had a Catholic parent and a Lutheran parent and went to both churches myself growing up (it switched from Catholic or Lutheran also went to private Catholic school for a while myself).

Still neutral to the queen (it was about the coins and having "faces" on them anyways) on this one or this topic though as I wanted people to respond without it being biased to them (the best I could get it). Just wanted real views and/or to get a better understanding of that coin collecting world (U.K. / Australia as well as Canada).

[TheGoldSovereign]

It's the best thing, she is a legend!

[kimchi]

2 hours ago, KDave said:

Is belief in santa also gross indoctrination? 

It's funny that you should mention that as catching up a few pages back this very topic occurred to me. (Dependent on the parenting, as I realise of course not all parents necessarily present Santa as more than a concept. Also these questions are not 'aimed' at you or anyone else, they are my own musings.)

So, Santa - probably one of if not the most magical part of any (privileged) child's life and they find out it's all lies, there is no magic, and in fact the people they trusted the most (their parents) have been deceiving them all along.

Is that morally any better than the politicians, the media, even religious leaders lying to us? It often uses the same mechanic too 'be good (do as I say) and you'll get pressies'.

Dr Shmuel Asher's literal Hebrew translation of the ancient texts says that in the Torah/OT there are many 'gods'. It's not even very well hidden in the Christian version ('let us make man in our image', and when the Israelites chose 'their' God and were told not to worship any other, why would they have to promise that if there was a choice?). He says he's spoken with top Rabbis and some have privately admitted that, yes, in a 'proper' reading of the texts there are many OT 'gods', but that's not what the religion is all about, so it's not part of the teachings. Is that any worse than making kids believe in a punishing Santa? What hurts a child more, that their parents lied to them from day one, or that their religion does (if they ever find that out)?

My sister tells her kids there's a heaven, but she doesn't believe it, it's another conscious lie to protect their feelings (and to some extent I suspect it lets her kid herself). As someone who knows there is I find that desperately sad, I cannot imagine having such a desperately bleak outlook on why and how we are here. So she tells them there is a heaven but I am not 'allowed' to mention messages from psychic friends, ones I have received myself, that prove there is life after death. I got told off very sternly for mentioning UFOs 'in case it scares the kids' (oldest is a teenager!).

On that note why don't Catholics pay more attention to the fact that the Pope has said aliens would be welcomed by the church? I haven't seen that mentioned once on this thread. Was that not a big enough 'hint' for most people?

Don't mind me I am crazy

 

[ChrisSilver]

I haven’t read all of the posts in this topic, but this topic is in the general precious metals section and titled “Does it bother you in the U.K. that the queen is on coins?”

Not sure where it has gone off topic but somewhere it has.

May I ask that those wishing to discuss religion, aliens or the pope etc start a topic in the relevant section. Non PM discussions topic: https://thesilverforum.com/forum/8-all-other-non-pm-related-discussions/

All posts with unrelated content to the original topic here after my post will be deleted. So please start a new topic. 

[Troy77]

It doesn't bother me, I like buying second grade coins because I think she looks hardcore with scars on her face.

It does seem to bother my wife though, I don't know why but every time I show her a new coin she turns it over and comments that she has spoiled the coin.

She would probably like it if she was on the toilet paper though.