Roy

Also, the two main grading companies (NGC and PCGS) wrongly graded the 2017 SotD as a PF and not an MS (the quality can be very similar, which is why I personally believe the Mint switched to Matte SotDs, to differentiate). The Mint actually sent out incorrect CoAs with the 2017s saying they were Proof, a big mistake!
Some people sent their graded coins back, to be reholdered as MS and not PF, and exchanged their CoAs with the Mint. Others like me have kept the 'error' CoAs and the coins graded as PF. So you may see a 2017 graded as PF, or even (I guess) people trying to sell as one without explaining the history.
I have not seen one myself but recently on here someone posted that another SotD had been wrongly graded as PF.
All SotDs should be classed as MS, even if many of us think they are almost as good as, or even as good as, proofs.
 

Firstly, all modern SOTDs produced to date are not proofs so will be graded as MS70 rather than PF70.  SOTDs are BU (brilliant uncirculated) not proofs.
A lot of SOTD sovereigns have a plain edge rather than milled (although not all of them) and many of them are a matte finish, but again not all.
The biggest factor (in my opinion) is the low mintages of SOTDs.  Some have very low mintages in the region of 650 or so.  
These factors make SOTD sovereigns unique and highly collectable (although not everyone would agree with this statement - horses for courses).

I've reported dubious coins to @ChrisSilver and the moderator team before and the sales posts have been hidden pending the seller's response. The system works well.
Remember, the admin team are enthusiasts, not experts, as are the sellers. I'm sure there is no malice involved, it's easy to make mistakes.
It's how the mistakes are rectified that matters. As Steve said,
That's what makes this forum the best.
 
As for the 'other' problem,
I completely agree, it's annoying. 

But wait...
Duncan is now a platinum business seller, his listings are comprehensive, well written, with great photos, specifications and reasonably priced. He's an asset to the forum as his many customers will testify.
Perhaps, and it's only a suggestion, he should have a dealer sub-forum or indeed become a forum sponsor? He needs his own space!
😊 👍

For sovereign collectors, they will want the proof...but the SOTD will be of interest too!
Then there are the SOTD collectors.
The Jubilee collectors.
The low mintage sov collectors.
The matte BU collectors.
And those who realise that this coin will mean something to almost everyone alive in the commonwealth, if not the world. 70 years as the longest-lived and longest-reigning British monarch, the longest-serving female head of state in history, the oldest living and longest-reigning current monarch, and the oldest and longest-serving incumbent head of state.

I believe it will be the key coin of the series.
 
 

Thank you for the suggestions, though we usually ask members to put forward any suggestions privately to myself. This topic has however given some useful information, and has been useful to read the posts in. I will therefore keep it open for the moment, though please forgive me if I do not reply publicly to any questions directed at me.
 
In general the trade section is working well, with over 7927 trade topics in 2021, and as previously stated in a post above I would eventually like to add gold/silver etc filters and a filter search to the trade section. I do agree though that we can improve the TSF trade section even further than simply doing this though.

TSF uses forum based software, it isn't designed as a marketplace and there are therefore a lot of limitations to the system. For example a usual 'shop' running on e-commerce software (I have had multiple online shops in various countries) is more geared up for selling items, even in the basic sense of categories and filters which are native features to most if not all e-commerce software. There is also already several custom plugins/applications related to the tag system / auto locking after 30 days (still needs to be updated by the developer) as well as other plugins/applications that also would need to not conflict with the code of any new plugin/application.

I do feel however that a forum style listing for precious metals does work well, and it has worked well for many years, as it is simple for members to list multiple items for sale in a list style in a single listing. With some extensive custom work, but just some simple changes to the front end, we can likely improve the trade section further. Any custom work requires a lot of resources to maintain (costs of going through the code and 'upgrading' each time there is a major software update which is regular on the platform we use, and the limited pool of developers to choose from who work with this software, and the initial developer needing to be the same developer to maintain) and even a simple change at a user end point's view may in practice not be simple.

I can start looking into this, in this coming week to find the associated costs and limitations. I do feel it is better to add a more extensive filter system rather than simple splitting into gold/silver, as was mentioned in some posts the ability to filter between private/commercial sales would also be useful. My initial thoughts are either a filter system or a tab style system to split the forum's trade section, or implementing both. And also being able to easily filter between auction / for sale listings. 

After we have a clearer idea as to what we can do, I will likely post in the Platinum Lounge section, or Premium Members Lounge, and members there will have a chance to comment. As the forum has a lot of members and even if I do read a lot of posts, it isn't possible to respond to each point raised unfortunately, especially publicly as there is a lot of work that goes into other aspects of running the forum also and I unfortunately do not have as much free time to post or to engage into debate/discussions, unlike many members. 

Unfortunately even after we have invested into improving the trade section, there will likely be a many members who disagree with any change. It isn't possible to please everyone unfortunately, especially with a forum of this size. Though I will try my best to make the trade section easier to use and to find what specifically you are looking for, as this is what ultimately is the issue with the growing trade section, it is harder to filter through listings. And hopefully this will positively affective the majority of members who use the trade section. 

Please also note that TSF does not charge any % fees to list on the forum, and even taking into account the low cost of optional Premium Membership the actual cost to buy & sell items on the forum is extremely low for members. Offering members a very low cost / free way to sell their precious metals items direct to other precious metals enthusiasts. I am dedicated to improving and growing the forum and will try my best to improve it for everyone  

Many thanks for those members who choose to buy and sell on the forum, as it is a key part of TSF. And thank you to those who support TSF with Premium Membership, as this helps a long way, especially into the costs of hiring developers for projects and maintenance which can in some cases be extensive. 

 

Made my day that 👍

2:30 is always a good time for a dental appointment...........And it does feel like some days the RM are pulling our teeth out.  

One of the moderators sold their collection or a large part of it, in a beautifully organised way that didn’t disrupt the main sales thread.  
That person is @morezone who listed their large inventory for sale on their sub forum and referenced it in the main for sale area.  There were not lots of bumps and I bought coins from his inventory perhaps 6 months after he listed them.
Listing coins in one “stream” does drown out the private seller just selling a single Panda or similar, and leads to more people bumping.
I buy from the same people repeatedly because they often specialise in Sovs and would visit their for sales Subs if they organised as per @morezone
Best
Dicker

Apologies. I missed this:
Gold/Platinum Premium Membership would also give you a licence to list items for sale commercially as well as have a link to your website in your forum signature, we also encourage you to fully disclose your relationship to the business within your forum signature.
Edit: It doesn't say what section, just that you can. 
My comment stands.

Surely the 'dealers sub forum' was conceived to solve this?
The trade section is for private sales, no matter your membership status.

Surely the 'dealers sub forum' was conceived to solve this?
The trade section is for private sales, no matter your membership status.

It would be much tidier and more consistent to follow the discussion section, yes.
Precious Metals Trading
Silver
Gold 
Platinum

I've reported dubious coins to @ChrisSilver and the moderator team before and the sales posts have been hidden pending the seller's response. The system works well.
Remember, the admin team are enthusiasts, not experts, as are the sellers. I'm sure there is no malice involved, it's easy to make mistakes.
It's how the mistakes are rectified that matters. As Steve said,
That's what makes this forum the best.
 
As for the 'other' problem,
I completely agree, it's annoying. 

But wait...
Duncan is now a platinum business seller, his listings are comprehensive, well written, with great photos, specifications and reasonably priced. He's an asset to the forum as his many customers will testify.
Perhaps, and it's only a suggestion, he should have a dealer sub-forum or indeed become a forum sponsor? He needs his own space!
😊 👍

I've reported dubious coins to @ChrisSilver and the moderator team before and the sales posts have been hidden pending the seller's response. The system works well.
Remember, the admin team are enthusiasts, not experts, as are the sellers. I'm sure there is no malice involved, it's easy to make mistakes.
It's how the mistakes are rectified that matters. As Steve said,
That's what makes this forum the best.
 
As for the 'other' problem,
I completely agree, it's annoying. 

But wait...
Duncan is now a platinum business seller, his listings are comprehensive, well written, with great photos, specifications and reasonably priced. He's an asset to the forum as his many customers will testify.
Perhaps, and it's only a suggestion, he should have a dealer sub-forum or indeed become a forum sponsor? He needs his own space!
😊 👍

Made my day that 👍

Its only in the last year as the forum has grown and business members are charged higher fees  that it has become a big problem and unharmonious in my opinion.
Personally I only see it going one way if left unfettered, private individuals will just list elsewhere and stop looking in and the sales forum will simply become pages filled with dealers stock lists.

Interesting thread. 
 
As someone who's recently made the transition from collector/stacker to amateur trader to dealer, I am reading with interest and hearing what people are saying wrt the trade section, which is an important extension of the community, and can see that having it flooded with posts from a small number of members at the expense of other members is not conducive to the community spirit. 
I am always keen to hear feedback on my listings in the trade section, whether that be on the frequency, content, quality of offerings, pictures and price. I'll certainly be taking some advice from the comments here. I do feel it's excessive to list lots of items in individual listings so try to group items into listings to reduce the flooding. 
 
On the topic of the sections, I do totally agree that the current split of ungraded/graded is poor, and a more logical and even split to me would be:
Silver
Gold
Other metals (platinum, palladium, copper etc etc)
 
The ungraded section is way too busy. It is a jumble sale. But where ungraded is jumble, graded is tumble weed.
Split it more evenly as per the above and each section will strike a better balance of busyness. Posts won't be swamped out within an hour, and sections will get visited by buyer's according to what metal they're in the market for. 
Dealer sub forums I don't agree with, as they tend to be mostly ignored and under-utilised with a couple of notable exceptions

2022 1oz Bullion Ronseal   Nothing to get too excited about in this wee collection, although it is good to see that both the Elephants' legs all reach the ground. So much more fortunate than several African leaders who disagreed with the 'flu-like pandemic that never wrought havoc across the continent. Their refusal to deceive their own people most certainly did not result in their assassinations. Just accidents, coincidences and "covid". They were not hanged for their opposition.   The Kook is good but does lend more than a nod to the 2020 RAM WMF 1oz coin. The vast majority of both 2021/22 Kookaburras are believed to have badly damaged and deformed, this following encounters with Queensland Police when the coins were being transported across State boundaries. Just doing their job.   It is well worth picking up a New Zealand 2020 Penguin. I agree with many that it the pictures do not to its 3-d effect justice. At around £30 and with a mintage of just 25,000 it is considerably better value than most 2022 bullion. Having been under 25,000 miles from somebody who coughed in 2020, most of the issue still have another 12 years quarantine still to complete. Coins are not legally allowed to be reimported to NZ due to the menacing risk of mass extermination of the already extinct bird.   The Maples continue to portray ERII in the most beguiling of fashions. She must be well chuffed. The only surprising element is that fascist Dictator Justin Castro didn't insist on the coin bearing his own portrait. This before he went into hiding from the Canadian people.   The Philly is yet one more Austrian Enigmatic Variation and can now only be purchased upon production of a vaccine passport, the sporting of a fylfot and the bellowing of three "Sieg Heils". Rumours of a forthcoming "Yellow Star privy" edition have not been confirmed.  

Surely the 'dealers sub forum' was conceived to solve this?
The trade section is for private sales, no matter your membership status.

Surely the 'dealers sub forum' was conceived to solve this?
The trade section is for private sales, no matter your membership status.

Anyone have any counter argument or foresee any problems with this simple format ?  

As someone has already mentioned, its should be limited to x amount of posts in x amount of time, a bump being allowed once a day as it currently is, in my opinion.
however, if I were a dealer having paid what they are asked to pay id want my money’s worth too and that sort of limit would not be acceptable.
The sales format just isn’t geared up to handle the loading a few dealer can easily put on it, never mind once the normal members are added in, it’s no wonder people get annoyed and push the bumping rules.
The forum needs to decide what it wants to be or do something significantly different like an eBay type environment for sales.
Edit: I also agree about splitting out the metals for what its worth. But I also remember when the highest paying members at the time were asked their opinion @richatthecroft and most were on a similar page to what you propose, but were basically told no and something quite different happened.

Surely the 'dealers sub forum' was conceived to solve this?
The trade section is for private sales, no matter your membership status.

I've reported dubious coins to @ChrisSilver and the moderator team before and the sales posts have been hidden pending the seller's response. The system works well.
Remember, the admin team are enthusiasts, not experts, as are the sellers. I'm sure there is no malice involved, it's easy to make mistakes.
It's how the mistakes are rectified that matters. As Steve said,
That's what makes this forum the best.
 
As for the 'other' problem,
I completely agree, it's annoying. 

But wait...
Duncan is now a platinum business seller, his listings are comprehensive, well written, with great photos, specifications and reasonably priced. He's an asset to the forum as his many customers will testify.
Perhaps, and it's only a suggestion, he should have a dealer sub-forum or indeed become a forum sponsor? He needs his own space!
😊 👍