SlowFrog

I'm a bit slow and still don't understand what I'm looking at. How is it a 2015 full sovereign and how did Roy know? I thought it was a Bakewell tart.

Looks like wide open with tongue out... Just like this

Thirsting...lol.

If it happens.. I'd also ask; who is going to be selling? As in, those without PMs and nothing but worthless fiat may need to sell/trade other assets whether that be property, cigarettes or alcohol! Those with PMs won't be letting them go easily if the price has been driven up massively. Horrible situation for all of us in many respects. Even if you own a load of PMs, do you really want to be living in a society like that? I personally don't but feel like a monumental crash is inevitable at some point. For me, PMs are about wealth preservation rather than waiting for tenfold increases. I encourage every one I know to do all they can to minimise their debt and buy whatever they can whether it's scrap gold or silver rounds.

If it happens.. I'd also ask; who is going to be selling? As in, those without PMs and nothing but worthless fiat may need to sell/trade other assets whether that be property, cigarettes or alcohol! Those with PMs won't be letting them go easily if the price has been driven up massively. Horrible situation for all of us in many respects. Even if you own a load of PMs, do you really want to be living in a society like that? I personally don't but feel like a monumental crash is inevitable at some point. For me, PMs are about wealth preservation rather than waiting for tenfold increases. I encourage every one I know to do all they can to minimise their debt and buy whatever they can whether it's scrap gold or silver rounds.

Oh dear that is horrendous 🤣

I prefer the other 2002 Sov design....

Another portuguese coin of 2016

Portugal is famous for his beautiful beach, nice people and ugly coins. Commemorative of the Money Museum.

I am not an owner of this portuguese beaty, and is a pity.

I'd leave as is, it won't make any difference to the value of the bar, if it bugs you clean by any of the methods brought up by other members.

If it is just for getting a non-numismatic piece of silver back nice and shiny, why not just use a silver polish product for coins ?
I used the baking soda way once and I think it is so much work to get it really clean, so using a special product to clean coins is so much easier.
( I use it for really dirty 90% junk silver coins, just because they look nicer when they are clean, value wise it does not make an impact because it is junk silver ... )

Leave as is, no point in cleaning they will just tarnish again.

It is a well known fact that Atkinsons buy all Metalor's rejects.
I am only joking!
Please don't anyone selectively quote me. 😎
On a serious note, this happens with silver, and it is best just to accept it, IMO.
If you could ensure your storage was competely airtight, it should not happen.
The electrolytic process described is well attested, so should be OK if you really dislike the tarnish / toning.
I suspect that when the silver sulphide gets removed, some slight silver loss occurs, but have never got round to trying to check.
Repeated tarnish removal adversely affects the surface of the item, which is another good reason to avoid it.
If anyone has any Goddard's Silver Dip, try leaving a junk silver coin in it for a few days. It would probably be worth taking before and after photos. 
 On the plus side, it might make milk spotting look good in comparison.

Basically baking soda some foil and hot water.....in my opinion clean them if they annoy you but please never use this method on Numismatics coins or bars ( big no no)
Be advised it will remove the smallest amount of metal too ( unnoticeable on a 1kg bar though)

If it happens.. I'd also ask; who is going to be selling? As in, those without PMs and nothing but worthless fiat may need to sell/trade other assets whether that be property, cigarettes or alcohol! Those with PMs won't be letting them go easily if the price has been driven up massively. Horrible situation for all of us in many respects. Even if you own a load of PMs, do you really want to be living in a society like that? I personally don't but feel like a monumental crash is inevitable at some point. For me, PMs are about wealth preservation rather than waiting for tenfold increases. I encourage every one I know to do all they can to minimise their debt and buy whatever they can whether it's scrap gold or silver rounds.

Its not in doubt. PMs, under a fiat system IS wealth preservation. Central bankers and governments do not want the lower classes to learn this, instead they follow the narrative that credit systems (to believe - fiat worthless paper) are better. Unfortunately many people actually believe that notes are more valuable than Gold. Its an astounding reality.

Think of the (in every sense) poor Afghan families with no real assets that are now being forced to sell their young or very young daughters to much older men as brides so as to get some money with which to buy food (so long as that may last).

If it happens.. I'd also ask; who is going to be selling? As in, those without PMs and nothing but worthless fiat may need to sell/trade other assets whether that be property, cigarettes or alcohol! Those with PMs won't be letting them go easily if the price has been driven up massively. Horrible situation for all of us in many respects. Even if you own a load of PMs, do you really want to be living in a society like that? I personally don't but feel like a monumental crash is inevitable at some point. For me, PMs are about wealth preservation rather than waiting for tenfold increases. I encourage every one I know to do all they can to minimise their debt and buy whatever they can whether it's scrap gold or silver rounds.

If it happens.. I'd also ask; who is going to be selling? As in, those without PMs and nothing but worthless fiat may need to sell/trade other assets whether that be property, cigarettes or alcohol! Those with PMs won't be letting them go easily if the price has been driven up massively. Horrible situation for all of us in many respects. Even if you own a load of PMs, do you really want to be living in a society like that? I personally don't but feel like a monumental crash is inevitable at some point. For me, PMs are about wealth preservation rather than waiting for tenfold increases. I encourage every one I know to do all they can to minimise their debt and buy whatever they can whether it's scrap gold or silver rounds.

All you can do is to put yourself in the best position you can, and don't buy into all out consumerism, In my late 20's I would buy into the biggest and best tech, spend's £650 on a stone island jacket etc, and I could not understand why I was skint all the time.   I woke up and stopped spending on stuff that is designed to keep poor people poor.  I took the decision to have a goal of being 100% mortgage and debt free before I was 40,  I did this by 38.  Not because I was earning loads I looked at debt differently and saw it as the beast that controlled me, I did without a new car, did not go on holiday for years.  The day I cleared everything I realise I have not missed the flash goods that  depreciate 99% the second you bought them. 
Now 45 and I work part time only doing the jobs I totally love to do.  There's has not been a day in the last year or so that getting out of bed and working that's felt like a chore,  I have done so many jobs in the past though very good at it  I hated and felt physically sick doing,   if people are honest I'd have to say 3/4 of people right now are doing a job that they hate but also have to admit they are the ones who have enslaved and indebted themselves to do, some until they are well past 65 years old. 
I could talk for hours about the way the system is designed to control the masses.  
Cheers
Dave 
 

They want you to think they hate it, and do a pretty good job most of the time.
But really its their bread and butter for mopping up the gravy 😋 
What else would a socially profiled person like a stacker do with HIS/her money fiat ?
Hoard it?
So watch out with crypto currency too! e bankers invented the tec. (People almost always never pull out at the top).
Think of the choices, make the decision but face up to reality...You are GIVEN the choice.
 
Have a nice weekend.
I looooooove working in the rain...It is my own choice  
 

Do governments hate gold?
 The answer: Yes — Governments hate gold because they cannot print it, and it is difficult for them to control.
Because they cannot print it or easily control it, gold has little use to them during the never-ending schemes to tax and then redistribute wealth.
India is a recent example of a government trying to control gold imports through increased taxation on imports and imposing rules, such as that importers had to re-export 20% of imports as gold jewelry.
These types of rules are difficult to enforce and smuggling of gold into India skyrocketed. Once gold is in the form of jewelry or physical metals it is very difficult to tax. Below we explore some other granular points about why governments disown gold.  
Yes, some central banks do own gold …  which seems counter to our thesis but in actuality, central banks own gold for the same reasons that you and I own gold – because it is not the liability of another government.
Why Governments Hate Gold?
A) Legal tender laws mean that all taxes must be paid in fiat currency (such as the dollar in the U.S., Euros in W. Europe, …) not gold or silver (held in physical form). Nothing but sponsored fiat currencies issued by the government is acceptable to pay debts and taxes.
Why do governments pass these legal tender laws? Because in a long running series of decisions from 1921 until 1971 western governments, in response to politicians creating ever larger government spending, countries decided they prefer interference and redistribution over letting capitalism and ingenuity grow the pie for everyone (However, the pie has grown tremendously…looking at GDPs over the last 50 years).
Pursuing perfectly equal pizza slices became the ideal goal rather than a rapidly growing pizza diameter.
But you cannot control pizza slice sizes if you don’t control the pizza cutter. Since wealth is the pizza slice, and taxation is the pizza cutter, the government must ensure that only fiat money gets recognized as wealth since fiat is easier to find and tax than physical metals.
Heavily government-regulated industries cannot be bailed out if the currency is not fiat – and if it is tied to a gold standard or some other limiting factor.
Once we see that the government is helping to set the rules for industries, and influences industry via regulation, it becomes clear that government is then liable for when a regulated industry fails.
Inflation is Everywhere!
Watch Kevin Muir only on GoldCore TV
 
During the 1930s banks, the world over failed because the government applied the wrong policy response to illiquidity problems. To be sure speculation and double counting of cheques all played a part in the 1930s banking crisis.   
But since the US government, along with many others were on a gold standard they could not print more US currency without more gold. In order to increase its gold reserves, the US government seized all gold held by citizens and banned citizens from owning gold.
The UK put into place restrictions which limited citizens to owning no more than four gold or silver coins and restricted any imports of gold for private citizens. The US government paid well below market prices for the seized gold and then raised the price to a higher official rate.
This allowed the government to then print more dollars to bail out the banks. Gold was ‘officially’ banned for individual ownership in the US until the 1970s – but the underground market prevailed and because gold is a physical asset it was easily hidden from government raids. 
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Click Here to Download Your Copy Now C) Gold has gained value against all currencies since governments abandoned the gold standard.
D) The existence of gold in the economy is a constant reminder of the poor quality of the government paper, and it always poses a threat to replace the paper as the country’s money.
Even with the government giving all the backing of its prestige and its legal tender laws to its fiat paper, gold coins in the hands of the public will always be a permanent reproach and menace to the government’s power over the country’s money.
E) Central Banks (e.g., the Federal Reserve) are for the most part privately held but controlled by the country’s government. A central bank derives its power to create and control fiat currency from the government.
So long as people use their money the central bank is happy. The problem becomes when people find an alternative to fiat currency. The biggest alternative is gold. That is why central banks hate gold. If people use gold instead of their fiat currency, the central bank loses power.
F) The Federal Reserve operates under a dual mandate. It must maintain price stability while also simultaneously promoting maximum employment. 
The Fed hates it when the price of gold rises because it correlates with a rising unemployment rate.
Gold Prive VS US Labour Force Participation Rate Chart G) The hatred of gold is nothing new. When it operated on a gold standard, the US government was limited in terms of its ability to pursue deficit spending. It could only accrue so much debt.
The gold standard forced the practice of austerity. When the government abandoned the gold standard, it gained the power to finance any national expense by simply borrowing from the Federal Reserve.
Today, no amount of gold is necessary for the Fed to purchase treasury bonds. It is blessed with the ability to expand their balance sheet with zero limitations. 
Simply put, gold limits the power and influence of central bankers. No wonder they hate it.

If it happens.. I'd also ask; who is going to be selling? As in, those without PMs and nothing but worthless fiat may need to sell/trade other assets whether that be property, cigarettes or alcohol! Those with PMs won't be letting them go easily if the price has been driven up massively. Horrible situation for all of us in many respects. Even if you own a load of PMs, do you really want to be living in a society like that? I personally don't but feel like a monumental crash is inevitable at some point. For me, PMs are about wealth preservation rather than waiting for tenfold increases. I encourage every one I know to do all they can to minimise their debt and buy whatever they can whether it's scrap gold or silver rounds.