Has the secondary silver market hit the market saturation point.

[Shinus73]

1 minute ago, Fenlander1 said:

Normally I would agree and if it was the odd tube here and there it wouldn't be a problem but the situation we are in now where the market is flooded is when you come to sell your cheap silver your investment has failed to keep up with inflation due to external forces and you are forced to make a loss.

 

I started buying silver in 2010, discovered the EU loophole in 2011 and took advantage where I could.

It was clear then that buying silver in the UK at 20% VAT was a terrible idea if you were looking for a quick return or trying to make a business out of it.

Silver bought in the UK is either a long-term hold, a moonshot gamble or a useful savings vehicle to help you buy gold.

[treetop1280]

1 hour ago, Fenlander1 said:

Normally I would agree and if it was the odd tube here and there it wouldn't be a problem but the situation we are in now where the market is flooded is when you come to sell your cheap silver your investment has failed to keep up with inflation due to external forces and you are forced to make a loss.

 

[MrMidas]

What is this monster box you speak of?,..the price of silver not dropped I just been away a few days maybe 😂

[treetop1280]

I  have only been at this a year , and silver was £20 odds last year ???? I know f all about it , however I looks like a  terrible investment??? However coin collectors are what keep the market going ???

[MrMidas]

Damn I see it now !,.is a monster box sure it will move quick enough if you split it up 

[bluemoon]

I haven't purchased on this forum for a while, when did these cheaper silver prices start coming in? I used to do the Estonia group buys with BYB. About a year ago I saw a controversial sales thread with someone selling the silver cheap, but he was previously banned so got banned again, but partly also because the prices seemed "too cheap" considering VAT.

I've been buying Special VAT Scheme silver from reputable bullion dealers to buy cheaper silver anyway.

Edited March 18 by bluemoon

[Fenlander1]

There is certainly some interesting thoughts on this matter. I personally think its the volume available that causes the issue. A dealer on a special vat scheme only has a limited quantity and therefor wouldn't really affect the market.

Edited March 18 by Fenlander1

[Spark268]

a market is a market imho - if there is a large amount of supply then that is going to push prices down.

on tsf - gold krugs and sovereigns have been available for spot or below - do you also view these as questionable origin?

What nonsense  - someone has even managed to bring immigration into the fray.

This just sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

 

 

 

[Fenlander1]

9 minutes ago, Spark268 said:

What nonsense  - someone has even managed to bring immigration into the fray.

Lost me a bit there. 

[Spark268]

this topic is nonsense - the guy wanting to sell a monster box of silver is complaining about volume??

[Fenlander1]

20 minutes ago, Spark268 said:

a market is a market imho - if there is a large amount of supply then that is going to push prices down.

on tsf - gold krugs and sovereigns have been available for spot or below - do you also view these as questionable origin?

This just sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more on the market thing and yes the point of the conversation is have prices been pushed down artificially.

You can always buy a certain amount of any metal for below spot that's how dealers trade  krugs and sovs are no different but their origin is of no relevance as the market is global not insular as in the UK.

The problem with an unlevel  playing field the ball always rolls to the bottom.

I don't think there is any sour grapes tbh 

8 minutes ago, Spark268 said:

this topic is nonsense - the guy wanting to sell a monster box of silver is complaining about volume??

No I don't think so 

 

Edited March 18 by Fenlander1

[JamesH]

I think a few things have come together to cause the price premium to drop heavily:-

1. Current state of the economy and fewer having spare cash with which to devote to metals

2. In view of point 1 there’s a greater number of stackers needing to make more cash available thus over supply to the secondary silver market whilst all trying to sell

3. Two or three sellers converged to crash the market somewhat by undercutting existing sellers and creating a new floor in price

4. Greater sense of apathy over silver versus gold? Maybe

I actually think both silver and gold may be seeing something of an ebb in current appetite to buy. Maybe if silver can hold £20/oz for a good while people will begin to see this is normal and higher premiums will return

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

24 minutes ago, Spark268 said:

a market is a market imho - if there is a large amount of supply then that is going to push prices down.

on tsf - gold krugs and sovereigns have been available for spot or below - do you also view these as questionable origin?

What nonsense  - someone has even managed to bring immigration into the fray.

This just sounds like sour grapes to me.

There's no VAT on gold you muppet. Krugs are the most common modern gold coin and are subject to CGT which makes them less attractive than UK gold, hence they sell for spot

There is 20% VAT on silver. To evade the 20% is VAT fraud and carries serious penalties. Why should sellers who obey the law be punished by those who don't??? sour grapes 😂

I didn't say "immigration" either you twat. I said "MASS MIGRATION". Do you understand the difference between gold and silver, between immigration and mass migration?

[Spark268]

there's no need to get personal and as for the rest of your post - good one - why dont you carry on?

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

Just now, Spark268 said:

there's no need to get personal and as for the rest of your post - good one - why dont you carry on?

Sounds like a case of sour grapes to me

[Spark268]

so if some one sells silver at spot -5% + 20 % vat = spot +15% then its VAT fraud and of questionable origin - as per fenlander and honestmoneys arguements ... but someone selling gold at spot - 5% + 0 % vat = spot - 5% , is all okay, dealers do it and krugs are common? It doesn't matter if the latter is covered in blood.

 

I'm still boggled that someone attempting to sell a monster box of silver in one go is complaining about volumes!

 

 

Edited March 18 by Spark268

[Spark268]

2 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Sounds like a case of sour grapes to me

i am - how the hell is immigration, or mass migration as you want to call it even tangentially involved with the OP? 🤪

[James32]

Silver at £19.68

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry wrong universe

[Fenlander1]

7 minutes ago, Spark268 said:

as per fenlander and honestmoneys arguements ..

Not really an argument tbh just a question based on an observation of market trends 

[AllThingsShiny]

Only on this very bitchy forum do you find people moaning about sellers offering good deals to fellow stackers. 

In any other walk of life these people would be seen as a godsend in the current economic climate.

There definitely seems to be a clique on this forum atm 

[AOB]

Debate incoming…🤣🤣

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

2 minutes ago, Spark268 said:

i am - how the hell is immigration, or mass migration as you want to call it even tangentially involved with the OP? 🤪

Mate, immigration (positive) and mass migration (negative) are two different things. One is natural and healthy, the other is a waking nightmare. Why is it relevant? Because the migrants value precious metals a lot more than westerners do.

It is common cultural practice on the Indian subcontinent to store your wealth in silver and gold, whereas only about 1% of the population of the UK does the same. So, when you import a million people to the UK within a year who already own silver and bring it with them, of course that's going to result in an excess of cheap (VAT-free) silver. It would significantly increase the prevalence of physical silver ownership in the UK overnight - significantly more silver but not significantly more demand, you see? 

[Fenlander1]

1 minute ago, AllThingsShiny said:

Only on this very bitchy forum do you find people moaning about sellers offering good deals to fellow stackers. 

In any other walk of life these people would be seen as a godsend in the current economic climate.

There definitely seems to be a clique on this forum atm 

Who is moaning we were having a reasonable debate, my question wasn't is it right or wrong but does it negatively affect a market.

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

Just now, AllThingsShiny said:

Only on this very bitchy forum do you find people moaning about sellers offering good deals to fellow stackers. 

In any other walk of life these people would be seen as a godsend in the current economic climate.

There definitely seems to be a clique on this forum atm 

If there is my invite must have been lost in the post 😂 The problem is when you undercut the legitimate sellers those sellers just leave or get forced out of business. Selling silver or any item below fair market value is not a sustainable business practice. I'm with you 100% we need all the help we can get in the current economic climate. The root problem is our government, as always. I appreciate a bargain as much as the next man

[Spark268]

2 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Mate, immigration (positive) and mass migration (negative) are two different things. One is natural and healthy, the other is a waking nightmare. Why is it relevant? Because the migrants value precious metals a lot more than westerners do.

It is common cultural practice on the Indian subcontinent to store your wealth in silver and gold, whereas only about 1% of the population of the UK does the same. So, when you import a million people to the UK within a year who already own silver and bring it with them, of course that's going to result in an excess of cheap (VAT-free) silver. It would significantly increase the prevalence of physical silver ownership in the UK overnight - significantly more silver but not significantly more demand, you see? 

mate - you accuse me of confusing VAT, migrants and immigrants etc

however

1) this thread (as i understand it) is about the silver secondary market

2) you seem to mix up the definitions between migrants, westerners, indians etc (what on earth has that got to do with this thread?)

3) vat registered business must include 20% vat on silver, however, if you are not vat registered, then, "you cannot apply charge VAT to your invoices even if the product or service is VAT rated. If you do, you will incur a penalty charge from HMRC."

4) the idiocy of the OP of complaining about volumes at low prices when talking about the issues of selling a monster box in one go.