Is this 1957 sovereign fake?

[JJH]

As the title says, I was shopping online. After I actually got the item, I took a look at it. Except for the face, I couldn’t see the details on the front. The part I suspected was on the back. First, the tail end of the helmet was pointing downwards. The second one is a short ponytail, the third one is not sure if the details of the horse mane are wear and tear or a weak blow, the fourth one is that the stick on the ground is very thin and smooth, and is relatively high off the ground, the fifth one has no BP... So is it really a fake? After all, it is 15 PCGS boxes from years ago, I’m not sure if even the boxes are fake, what do you think...

[JJH]

[JJH]

[dicker]

Yes!

[GoldDiggerDave]

Obverse is hideous 

The reverse is all kind of wrong, it looks like a photo thats been cropped at 95% of real size. 

Tail is very poor.  B.P?  

Overall surface is not right

Too many alarm bells with this coin. 

 

 

 

[Orpster]

Its a bad un I'm afraid

[JohnV66]

The font is completely wrong. The fields are not flat at all. Coin looks cast rather than milled.

Here's my 1957 which NGC graded 64.

[Deus]

Fake

[Petra]

This could be one of the hundreds of thousands of fake sovereigns that were being openly manufactured and traded in the 1950s which actually resulted in the Royal Mint changing its strategy on the gold sovereign. Most were being made in Italy and Syria and being used in the Middle East.
If you spotted all these points that you mention at the start, is there a reason why you bought it?🤔cheap?

Edited January 24, 2024 by Petra
addition

[dicker]

I’m not an expert on slabs but it may be that the slab is genuine and has been opened - and a counterfeit coin substituted.

Counterfeit PCGS graded slabbed coins are readily available and the slabs themselves are pretty convincing.  See below for an example on a Chinese knockoff site   

Beware everyone!

[JJH]

1 hour ago, Petra said:

This could be one of the hundreds of thousands of fake sovereigns that were being openly manufactured and traded in the 1950s which actually resulted in the Royal Mint changing its strategy on the gold sovereign. Most were being made in Italy and Syria and being used in the Middle East.
If you spotted all these points that you mention at the start, is there a reason why you bought it?🤔cheap?

This is a small auction here in Asia. At that time, only the front photo was clear, and the back was taken from a distance, so I missed it at the time. The front was not so rough at that time, and even when I hold it in my hand, I can’t see clearly. The three bidders (including me) all confirmed that the PCGS box history confirmed that the box and the number were correct, and they all thought that the old box was more rigorously graded, maybe he could change it to 66, and bid about 12 pounds each time until I got it. I saw George on the back. In order to highlight the muscles of the abdomen and buttocks, the rough casting almost cut George into three pieces, as did the horse's abdomen. The final price of this coin in my hands was 800 pounds.

[SidS]

7 hours ago, JJH said:

That quiff is bigger than Tony Curtis'. 😁

[Jvc2858]

ouch, can you return it?

[Petra]

21 minutes ago, JJH said:

This is a small auction here in Asia. At that time, only the front photo was clear, and the back was taken from a distance, so I missed it at the time. The front was not so rough at that time, and even when I hold it in my hand, I can’t see clearly. The three bidders (including me) all confirmed that the PCGS box history confirmed that the box and the number were correct, and they all thought that the old box was more rigorously graded, maybe he could change it to 66, and bid about 12 pounds each time until I got it. I saw George on the back. In order to highlight the muscles of the abdomen and buttocks, the rough casting almost cut George into three pieces, as did the horse's abdomen. The final price of this coin in my hands was 800 pounds.

Can you try returning it? How was it advertised? Over here I would see it being returned 🤔

[JJH]

1 hour ago, Jvc2858 said:

ouch, can you return it?

 

1 hour ago, Petra said:

Can you try returning it? How was it advertised? Over here I would see it being returned 🤔

It was a very small auction from the Chinese Coin Society on Facebook. NO THEY  SAY,Because it show photo before bid and win,and pcgs box is real, they say it need to ask why pcgs let a fake coin be grade

Edited January 24, 2024 by JJH

[sovereignsteve]

Oh dear, that is so bad, there is no chance it ever went through the PCGS, must be a fake slab.

[JJH]

9 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Oh dear, that is so bad, there is no chance it ever went through the PCGS, must be a fake slab.

It’s hard to say. Many people who collect Chinese coins know that a coin is fake but can successfully grade it when sent to PCGS. They have also cracked many fake coins that were authenticated by PCGS, and this version was about 15 years ago. PCGS 4.5 generation

[dicker]

1 hour ago, JJH said:

It’s hard to say. Many people who collect Chinese coins know that a coin is fake but can successfully grade it when sent to PCGS. They have also cracked many fake coins that were authenticated by PCGS, and this version was about 15 years ago. PCGS 4.5 generation

Interesting.  I know one dealer who purchased an unusual gold coin and cracked it out and realised it was counterfeit but had got through PCGS / NGC.

He even has a post about it here:

https://www.sterlingcurrency.com.au/blog/news-research/proclamation-and-colonial-coins/a-jewellers-copy-of-the-british-east-india-company/

[dicker]

This is also an excellent example of why not to blindly trusted graded coins.  

PCGS / NGC know there are counterfeit slabs being produced that are high quality which is why they are now using RFID chips in their slabs.  

Buy the coin not the slab

[JJH]

14 minutes ago, dicker said:

Interesting.  I know one dealer who purchased an unusual gold coin and cracked it out and realised it was counterfeit but had got through PCGS / NGC.

He even has a post about it here:

https://www.sterlingcurrency.com.au/blog/news-research/proclamation-and-colonial-coins/a-jewellers-copy-of-the-british-east-india-company/

So there is a paragraph in this article, and my understanding is this: as long as it is in a real blank, the coins inside should be considered real? No wonder the other party said that if there is a problem, you should contact PCGS...

[SilverJacks]

There's no way PCGS slabbed that coin. It's either a fake holder, or it's been cracked open and resealed. 

[Britannia47]

 @JJH  Have another look at the real thing….

[bazbigfoot]

unfortunately this is the way buying coins is going ebay lots on there wherever there is the chance of a con people will try it ,they spread word round and before long all con artists are doing it you just cant trust anyone where moneys concerned as we all know 

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

Fake coin but is it real gold? 

[Petra]

1 hour ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Fake coin but is it real gold? 

If it is a 1950s fake then yes it will be gold🤔😮