Royal mint survey

[Shinus73]

5 hours ago, dicker said:

I suspect the RM’s problem is that it is run by accountants with incentive plans to boost revenue and profits.

As opposed to a health mix of accountants and passionate individuals.  

All of the “new issues” and weak innovation speaks to this in my opinion.

 

 

Very much this.

I do have some sympathy with the mint. As a private enterprise they need to be profitable and their primary purpose of churning out circulating coinage is now redundant.

Their only options to increase sales are with bullion or commemorative issues. Without this, they go out of business.

[Anteater]

4 hours ago, SilverJacks said:

That's what I said in the survey. I like the features on the Britannia. If they could add one of them to the bullion sovereign, it might work. But they'd have to change the coin as little as possible. Micro-lettering or something subtle.

Or go bigger - could they make the entire reverse a lenticular of a shield and G&D?

[SilverJacks]

1 minute ago, Anteater said:

Or go bigger - could they make the entire reverse a lenticular of a shield and G&D?

Interesting view.

Maybe add a different security feature each year. So only one feature per coin, but a different feature each year.

[apachebleu]

1 hour ago, Shinus73 said:

Very much this.

I do have some sympathy with the mint. As a private enterprise they need to be profitable and their primary purpose of churning out circulating coinage is now redundant.

Their only options to increase sales are with bullion or commemorative issues. Without this, they go out of business.

 Problem is that this path only slightly delays the inevitable. They can lazily milk the last vestiges of credibility from the soverign and have a few more decent launches/sales spikes but that won't last long and the trade off is that you burn your prize asset.

 To be successful they need to offer the customer something new. I mean some ideas they suggest in the survey are not bad in and of themselves, they are bad in the context of the soverign. May be look at applying those things to other coins/bars. Perhaps stop aiming the product at the older crowd?

 How many young people give a c**p about tutankhamun, Alexander graeme Bell, dame Vera Lynn etc? As long as you churn out unimaginative c**p like that you'll never grow. 

 Young people don't dislike gold, maybe the mint should be looking at what and who today's 18 to 30 group care about or are influenced by and collaborate with them rather than hoping we buy the outdated near weekly 'special editions'. Do they want ounce coins? Maybe not, would they like a medallion/pendant designed in collaboration with a rapper? It's more likely that's for sure.

[GoldDiggerDave]

Gold Pokémon cards! 

[SilverJacks]

St George & the Pokémon

[paulmerton]

Just now, SilverJacks said:

St George & the Pokémon

Gotta collect 'em all.

[GoldDiggerDave]

Just now, SilverJacks said:

St George & the Pokémon

George and the Dragonite !  
 

[SilverJacks]

2 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

George and the Dragonite !  
 

Royal Mint HQ

 

[Chronos]

Something that is popular on Tik-Tok ...

[Shinus73]

59 minutes ago, apachebleu said:

 Problem is that this path only slightly delays the inevitable. They can lazily milk the last vestiges of credibility from the soverign and have a few more decent launches/sales spikes but that won't last long and the trade off is that you burn your prize asset.

 To be successful they need to offer the customer something new. I mean some ideas they suggest in the survey are not bad in and of themselves, they are bad in the context of the soverign. May be look at applying those things to other coins/bars. Perhaps stop aiming the product at the older crowd?

 How many young people give a c**p about tutankhamun, Alexander graeme Bell, dame Vera Lynn etc? As long as you churn out unimaginative c**p like that you'll never grow. 

 Young people don't dislike gold, maybe the mint should be looking at what and who today's 18 to 30 group care about or are influenced by and collaborate with them rather than hoping we buy the outdated near weekly 'special editions'. Do they want ounce coins? Maybe not, would they like a medallion/pendant designed in collaboration with a rapper? It's more likely that's for sure.

I agree that the Sovereign is not to be meddled with, but I can see why the RM is tempted, it's a proven winner.

As for everything else, it's just a coin for the sake of a coin. Whatever the design, some people will approve, others will mock. 

By a distance, the most successful thing they've done recently was the Queens Beasts series, clearly aimed at the traditional coin crowd (old fogeys).

Personally, I love the British Monarchs series, but I seem to be in a minority. The fact is, when secondary prices don't immediately rise, people lose interest. 

I don't see the wisdom in trying to attract the 18-30 crowd, who are largely unable to afford such luxuries, even if they wanted them, and certainly not at the expense of existing customers.

I do however look forward to the Dua Lipa 1 oz silver proof. 🙂

The market for modern proof / commemoratives has reverted to where it was for most of the past few decades - in the toilet. This is why I have sympathy with the Mint, I think it will be incredibly difficult for them in the coming years.

[Britannia47]

A bit disappointed not to be selected to fill out a sovereign survey. I would have given the ‘yellow’ box a resounding YES! and I’m sure LC would have done the same, having campaigned for years for a change in the alloy. By the way it’s ’RED’ gold not ‘Rose’ that’s a Jewellery term!. Maybe it’s a term the RM will use as it ventures into the ‘886’ jewellery business 18ct gold etc?

Red gold has been used since about 1985 with the Maklouf proof sovereigns. Certainly the Gillicks and Machins look as if they were made with Yellow gold as did everything else before that. Perhaps the RM wanted to keep the Sovereigns as a separate entity, and to target different buyers/collectors, knowing that the new Britannias were being minted in 1987 mainly for bullion buyers, in competition with Krugerrands. 
 

What is odd, is that in 1997 it included the new £2 bi-metal coin in the Sovereign set with a ‘Red’ gold outer ring, and ‘Yellow’ gold inner, (as described by the RM,)  instead of the normal ‘double sovereign’ So that shows the RM knows the difference between the two shades of gold!

Anyway, changing the alloy to Yellow gold would be my only wish……but will the RM take any notice of the survey?

 

 

 

[apachebleu]

4 hours ago, Shinus73 said:

I agree that the Sovereign is not to be meddled with, but I can see why the RM is tempted, it's a proven winner.

As for everything else, it's just a coin for the sake of a coin. Whatever the design, some people will approve, others will mock. 

By a distance, the most successful thing they've done recently was the Queens Beasts series, clearly aimed at the traditional coin crowd (old fogeys).

Personally, I love the British Monarchs series, but I seem to be in a minority. The fact is, when secondary prices don't immediately rise, people lose interest. 

I don't see the wisdom in trying to attract the 18-30 crowd, who are largely unable to afford such luxuries, even if they wanted them, and certainly not at the expense of existing customers.

I do however look forward to the Dua Lipa 1 oz silver proof. 🙂

The market for modern proof / commemoratives has reverted to where it was for most of the past few decades - in the toilet. This is why I have sympathy with the Mint, I think it will be incredibly difficult for them in the coming years.

 

 It's easy to dismiss but as the older generation of collector moves on who is going to replace them? I do think the Harry potter coins were a very smart move in that direction, there are a lot of adults buying them for themselves. My girlfriend has no interest in coins but she had to have them and has now started collecting the new zealand mint fantastic beasts.

 It may seem a bit vulgar or crass but they need new customers and that's how you get them, @GoldDiggerDave joked about gold pokemon  cards....i bet that if the mint were to actually do that, and do it properly they would sell like crazy. That actually ties in to your other point about they can't afford it, people are paying thousands, sometimes millions for those cards and you think they wouldn't buy a gold one as a flex? 

 What about other aspects of gamer culture? Look at the game streaming industry, it's creating a lot of rich young nerds who might greatly appreciate a video game character line, you could easily have done gaming icons like Mario, link, sonic etc. rather than myths and legends or another james bond tie in. 

 You know I'm starting to think I may be a marketing genius

[paulmerton]

8 minutes ago, apachebleu said:

 

 It's easy to dismiss but as the older generation of collector moves on who is going to replace them? I do think the Harry potter coins were a very smart move in that direction, there are a lot of adults buying them for themselves. My girlfriend has no interest in coins but she had to have them and has now started collecting the new zealand mint fantastic beasts.

 It may seem a bit vulgar or crass but they need new customers and that's how you get them, @GoldDiggerDave joked about gold pokemon  cards....i bet that if the mint were to actually do that, and do it properly they would sell like crazy. That actually ties in to your other point about they can't afford it, people are paying thousands, sometimes millions for those cards and you think they wouldn't buy a gold one as a flex? 

 What about other aspects of gamer culture? Look at the game streaming industry, it's creating a lot of rich young nerds who might greatly appreciate a video game character line, you could easily have done gaming icons like Mario, link, sonic etc. rather than myths and legends or another james bond tie in. 

 You know I'm starting to think I may be a marketing genius

Five minutes into the new Wonka movie, it made me think a silver sovereign could become a big seller if Royal Mint did one! (Please don't though!)

[Silverlocks]

30 minutes ago, apachebleu said:

 It's easy to dismiss but as the older generation of collector moves on who is going to replace them?

Harrington & Byrne - pay attention.

[apachebleu]

19 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

Harrington & Byrne - pay attention.

  Well I think that's a bit uncalled for!! Question my taste, insult my intelligence,  but suggesting I belong in that company is crossing a line.

[Silverlocks]

4 minutes ago, apachebleu said:

  Well I think that's a bit uncalled for!! Question my taste, insult my intelligence,  but suggesting I belong in that company is crossing a line.

No, I was merely suggesting that Harrington & Byrne's customer base may be in the process of dying off and that they should maybe pay attention to OP's suggestion.  Perhaps they might finally start making something that people might actually want to collect.

Or - call me cynical - maybe selling stuff that only they are interested in buying back at a pittance, just to re-sell it so some other mugcustomer is actually quite a good business model.  Who knows?

Edited December 31, 2023 by Silverlocks

[apachebleu]

19 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

No, I was merely suggesting that Harrington & Byrne's customer base may be in the process of dying off and that they should maybe pay attention to OP's suggestion.  Perhaps they might finally start making something that people might actually want to collect.

Or - call me cynical - maybe selling stuff that only they are interested in buying back at a pittance, just to re-sell it so some other mugcustomer is actually quite a good business model.  Who knows?

 You know I'd never actually considered that. I always thought they were scum that preyed on the uninformed and, given where they do their marketing especially the elderly, but when you put it like that you may actually be on to something.

 My parents know I collect a bit of gold and recently they were telling me about an advert they had seem for super limited edition coronation coins and my first thought was it would be something from a company like that...I was so afraid they'd waste their money getting me one as a Xmas present.

 I needn't have worried, I got a bottle of shower gel they were probably given as a present by somebody else last year.

[Silverlocks]

8 minutes ago, apachebleu said:

 You know I'd never actually considered that. I always thought they were scum that preyed on the uninformed and, given where they do their marketing especially the elderly, but when you put it like that you may actually be on to something.

 My parents know I collect a bit of gold and recently they were telling me about an advert they had seem for super limited edition coronation coins and my first thought was it would be something from a company like that...I was so afraid they'd waste their money getting me one as a Xmas present.

 I needn't have worried, I got a bottle of shower gel they were probably given as a present by somebody else last year.

My standing advice to people - never buy gold coins commemorating any event in WWI or WWII, any armed services such as the RAF, or any member of the royal family, jubilee or other related material.  Nobody actually collects that tat and the real value is about spot +5%.

Maybe 30 or 40 years ago there were folks still alive who remembered WWII and might actually like a Battle of Britain commemorative coin, but I suspect most people to which that sort of thing has any meaning or nostalgic connotations are either dead or not far off it.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Silverlocks

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

7 hours ago, apachebleu said:

 Problem is that this path only slightly delays the inevitable. They can lazily milk the last vestiges of credibility from the soverign and have a few more decent launches/sales spikes but that won't last long and the trade off is that you burn your prize asset.

 To be successful they need to offer the customer something new. I mean some ideas they suggest in the survey are not bad in and of themselves, they are bad in the context of the soverign. May be look at applying those things to other coins/bars. Perhaps stop aiming the product at the older crowd?

 How many young people give a c**p about tutankhamun, Alexander graeme Bell, dame Vera Lynn etc? As long as you churn out unimaginative c**p like that you'll never grow. 

 Young people don't dislike gold, maybe the mint should be looking at what and who today's 18 to 30 group care about or are influenced by and collaborate with them rather than hoping we buy the outdated near weekly 'special editions'. Do they want ounce coins? Maybe not, would they like a medallion/pendant designed in collaboration with a rapper? It's more likely that's for sure.

What for the young people today, more "Diverisity Built Britain"?

Pokemon can be a good idea, but the risks are they'll have to pay a lot for the IP and not getting much money back. I think it's the desig , rather than the theme, that matters. Video games are resemblance of the real world, and just like the real world it's a concoction of many different ingredients from which RM draws their inspiration, and what RM does badly for LOTR and Star Wars will be equally bad for the Witcher or Elder Scroll. 

And you'd have to think how deep the pockets of the game addicts are

Edited December 31, 2023 by SeverinDigsSovereigns

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

6 hours ago, Shinus73 said:

 

Personally, I love the British Monarchs series, but I seem to be in a minority. The fact is, when secondary prices don't immediately rise, people lose interest. 

Glad I'm not alone. For one moment I thought I was the only one on TSF doing the series in 1oz gold

[SilverDrum]

6 hours ago, paulmerton said:

Five minutes into the new Wonka movie, it made me think a silver sovereign could become a big seller if Royal Mint did one! (Please don't though!)

These sold quick as can be... 

[GoldDiggerDave]

The next big thing IMO will be combining a gold bar or coin with crypto.

A minted QR code on the bar or coin  effectively gold backing the crypto.  RM crypto  Can you image the possibilities?   They could take a massive share of the crypto market.  

This is where the RM need to look at combining the old with the new without bastardising  the sovereign.  

There's loads they can do and I mean  loads to drive more young people into the market  while keeping their existing client base happy.   

Their  current account manger set up is painful they are utterly clueless in this area on how to make and maintain meaningful and beneficial relationships............Jesus lord or mighty RM!!!   just a few changes in this area alone would make 10's if not 100's of millions of additional sales with the current products they have.   

Getting a call 3 weeks after launch off some sales person who knows next to nothing about the product they are selling never mind the history and some of the nuances of the market  trying  to pedal stock they obviously can't shift and have zero belief in  is not the way to conduct good  business.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by GoldDiggerDave

[artalien]

Seems easy to me. Produce quality coins as close to spot as possible. Stop the milk delivery. Concentrate on the Britannia, it is a brillant series.

As for the youth and our history: a pile of stones is only brought to life by a "tour guide" - ie our history has to be made relevant. It is indeed glorious.

UK - home of the industrial revolution etc etc The UK made the modern world.

Edited December 31, 2023 by artalien

[Shinus73]

12 hours ago, apachebleu said:

 

 It's easy to dismiss but as the older generation of collector moves on who is going to replace them? I do think the Harry potter coins were a very smart move in that direction, there are a lot of adults buying them for themselves. My girlfriend has no interest in coins but she had to have them and has now started collecting the new zealand mint fantastic beasts.

 It may seem a bit vulgar or crass but they need new customers and that's how you get them, @GoldDiggerDave joked about gold pokemon  cards....i bet that if the mint were to actually do that, and do it properly they would sell like crazy. That actually ties in to your other point about they can't afford it, people are paying thousands, sometimes millions for those cards and you think they wouldn't buy a gold one as a flex? 

 What about other aspects of gamer culture? Look at the game streaming industry, it's creating a lot of rich young nerds who might greatly appreciate a video game character line, you could easily have done gaming icons like Mario, link, sonic etc. rather than myths and legends or another james bond tie in. 

 You know I'm starting to think I may be a marketing genius

The RM clearly need to attract new customers, but I guess my point is, that based on current reactions, any new series / innovations will simply be seen as more overpriced tat.