Royal mint survey

[Silverlocks]

Victorian sovs typically used to have about 3-4 parts per thousand silver, which was enough to lift the colour to the gold you would expect from them.  Adding that to the alloy for modern sovereigns would cost about 1.5p per coin, and I can't imagine any way that doing that wouldn't make the coins more desirable to the point that they could charge enough extra to cover the costs.  Science is powerless to explain why they haven't done it.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Silverlocks

[bluffer]

1 hour ago, LemmyMcGregor said:

Purple sovereigns anyone?

dont give them f****** ideas!!!

[LemmyMcGregor]

55 minutes ago, bluffer said:

dont give them f****** ideas!!!

I'll be honest, I'd buy ONE, then I'd switch to Krugerrand. Sod the ginger sovereign and all the 99.9 coins, 22 carrots look way better. Must be all the vitamin A.

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

7 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

Well, the Royal Munt could take a leaf or two out of Perth Mint's book when it comes to quality control.

7 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

Victorian sovs typically used to have about 3-4 parts per thousand silver, which was enough to lift the colour to the gold you would expect from them.  Adding that to the alloy for modern sovereigns would cost about 1.5p per coin, and I can't imagine any way that doing that wouldn't make the coins more desirable to the point that they could charge enough extra to cover the costs.  Science is powerless to explain why they haven't done it.

That's what I wish they would do - get Perth Mint or even Sydney or Melbourne to make the sovs to the same specs as yesteryear. It seems a no-brainer to me for the Royal Mint to partner with Aussie mines and mints to leverage their joint skills and IPRs to sell the best quality coins worldwide. If they were available they're the only coins I would buy

[Silverlocks]

18 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

That's what I wish they would do - get Perth Mint or even Sydney or Melbourne to make the sovs to the same specs as yesteryear. It seems a no-brainer to me for the Royal Mint to partner with Aussie mines and mints to leverage their joint skills and IPRs to sell the best quality coins worldwide. If they were available they're the only coins I would buy

I don't think either the Sydney or Melbourne mints exist as business units anymore.  Melbourne was closed down quite a long time ago, and the Sydney Mint was closed in the 1950s or 60s from memory.  RAM have a factory in Sydney (IIRC) but there's not a continuity from the Sydney mint as such, at least not in the way that there is with the Perth Mint.

I don't think that the Royal Mint should have problems making decent sovereigns in the Wales factory, at least I can't see any substantial reasons why.  As far as I can tell they're just choosing not to.

[Chronos]

I think they send this surveys just to see how many of you think that they actually read what you have to say ...

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

34 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

I don't think either the Sydney or Melbourne mints exist as business units anymore.  Melbourne was closed down quite a long time ago, and the Sydney Mint was closed in the 1950s or 60s from memory.  RAM have a factory in Sydney (IIRC) but there's not a continuity from the Sydney mint as such, at least not in the way that there is with the Perth Mint.

I don't think that the Royal Mint should have problems making decent sovereigns in the Wales factory, at least I can't see any substantial reasons why.  As far as I can tell they're just choosing not to.

Perth Mint it is then! I love everything I've got that's Perth Mint

I'm sure you're right about the RM Wales facility but they seem incapable or perhaps unwilling to match the standards of Perth Mint. The Royal Mint actually chose to give us rose gold and their silver standards are reprehensible. Mexico can produce better silver not to mention numerous private mints in the USA and elsewhere

[Silverlocks]

3 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Perth Mint it is then! I love everything I've got that's Perth Mint

I'm sure you're right about the RM Wales facility but they seem incapable or perhaps unwilling to match the standards of Perth Mint. The Royal Mint actually chose to give us rose gold and their silver standards are reprehensible. Mexico can produce better silver not to mention numerous private mints in the USA and elsewhere

They don't have to match Perth Mint's standard, just their own standards of 150 years ago.

American mints are pretty hit and miss in my experience.  There's a lot of low grade silver tat produced by private mints there.  I do get that the market conditions there make generic silver rounds a cost-effective thing to stack, but it seems a bit of a race to the bottom.  A lot of folks love Scottsdale, but I'm pretty lukewarm to their designs.  But that's just personal taste.

I do think the RM is a lot more sophisticated than the smaller private mints - for example, all the anti-counterfeiting measures on the Britannia.  However, their quality control is terrible, and their insistence on sticking to the letter of the law on the alloy for sovereigns (they're only under legal obligation to contain a certain amount of gold) does have the vibe of management operating under perverse incentives.

[GoldDiggerDave]

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Edited December 30, 2023 by GoldDiggerDave

[dicker]

I suspect the RM’s problem is that it is run by accountants with incentive plans to boost revenue and profits.

As opposed to a health mix of accountants and passionate individuals.  

All of the “new issues” and weak innovation speaks to this in my opinion.

 

 

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

1 hour ago, Silverlocks said:

They don't have to match Perth Mint's standard, just their own standards of 150 years ago.

American mints are pretty hit and miss in my experience.  There's a lot of low grade silver tat produced by private mints there.  I do get that the market conditions there make generic silver rounds a cost-effective thing to stack, but it seems a bit of a race to the bottom.  A lot of folks love Scottsdale, but I'm pretty lukewarm to their designs.  But that's just personal taste.

I do think the RM is a lot more sophisticated than the smaller private mints - for example, all the anti-counterfeiting measures on the Britannia.  However, their quality control is terrible, and their insistence on sticking to the letter of the law on the alloy for sovereigns (they're only under legal obligation to contain a certain amount of gold) does have the vibe of management operating under perverse incentives.

Full of knowledge! 

I agree not all mints are equal. I've got some rounds from US mints that are good quality and haven't yet milked. I love the Britannias and the security features and design are world class. If it wasn't for the milk spots they would be my favourite silver bullion. They are the best price/value except for the milking which really bugs me

True also we just want the same quality the Royal Mint was producing 100 or 200 years ago!

[dicker]

1 minute ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Full of knowledge! 

I agree not all mints are equal. I've got some rounds from US mints that are good quality and haven't yet milked. I love the Britannias and the security features and design are world class. If it wasn't for the milk spots they would be my favourite silver bullion. They are the best price/value except for the milking which really bugs me

True also we just want the same quality the Royal Mint was producing 100 or 200 years ago!

So I believe (it was definitely the case in 2018 when I checked at the Perth mint) that the RM Silver blanks are produced by the PM for Brits.

I think Brits are milkier than the Kook for example - but don’t k ow why.  

[GoldDiggerDave]

Just now, dicker said:

I suspect the RM’s problem is that it is run by accountants with incentive plans to boost revenue and profits.

As opposed to a health mix of accountants and passionate individuals.  

All of the “new issues” and weak innovation speaks to this in my opinion.

 

 

They are running out of road and ideas.   There’s absolutely loads they could do to encourage collectors without decimating the sovereign (pun intended) 

The Royal Mint as a business are seeing their Kodak moment coinage is practically worthless and obsolete, don’t even need to have an ashtray full of change in the car for the car park anymore. 
 

They are directionless, just Wapping out one commemorative after another with decreasing sales figures no wonder they are not publishing their sales figures since 2019.

The frustration here the mint have a closed market not as if they really have any competition within the UK.

Id love to sit down with the decision makers at the RM……hell give me a job, as I could do it better than them. 

 

[Zhorro]

2 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

 

Id love to sit down with the decision makers at the RM……hell give me a job, as I could do it better than them. 

 

The really sad thing is that anyone who knows about coins and the coin market could do a better job than them.

[Agaupl]

I think the design of some of the RMint coins are best in the world .. but it doesn’t seem the production and QA , customer service, match the design elements.. plus the huge volume of coins really brings down the overall experience. The only reason for the modern sov colour and quality is a business decision. They have been able to get away with it due to demand but now the tide seems to be turning. Hope they listen!

I definitely think the RMint used to source some blanks from Perth, it a big part of Perth business, but I’m not sure if it’s still the case. Silver kangaroos certainly milk, but due to their price it’s not that much of an issue for the target market. I’ve never had any mint capsulated silver coins from PM milk at all. But tube supplied coins define you do.. although not like the Brit’s and the silver krugerrand.

I really like Perth, production is so much better than RM, but I  prefer the RM designs. 
 

PS.  Sydney mint was first built as a hospital (the rum hospital) and is still the oldest surviving building in Sydney. It’s now civil service building and law courts it’s only a few metres away from the original landing sight of the settlers just behind what is now Circular Quay. Follow me for more historical pub quiz fodder 🤣

 

[Agaupl]

They better not mess with the sovereign.. unless it’s to return it to actual gold good and increase the strike quality. 
I didn’t get this email .. last email they sent was asking me about the packaging on my order and was I happy with it .. I absolutely wasn’t…. Because I’d not received it yet!

When it did arrive I was very happy.. but it was abit too late by then 😬

[Chronos]

Design is irrelevant. It is what the coins are made of that matters.

[Agaupl]

25 minutes ago, Chronos said:

Design is irrelevant. It is what the coins are made of that matters.

Why buy sovereigns then? Buy whatever gold in whatever form you can at the lowest rate. Definitely a place for this and a valid option. But even a bad condition bullion sovereign is better imho than a gold bar of the same weight. Although I do like cast bars I have to admit. 
 

 

[Stuntman]

If you are primarily a collector rather than a stacker, then design is often very important indeed in determining which new coins/bars you choose to buy - especially on a relatively limited budget.

Design, production quality, popularity and rarity are probably the most important factors for collectors, with the order of those factors changing according to personal preference/exit strategy.

Back on topic: I will always collect a post-2000 bullion sovereign if it has a special obverse or reverse, but from now onwards I probably wouldn't buy a 'standard' KCIII sovereign (such as the 2024 coin) unless they changed the alloy composition.  My collector money would go towards any new 1oz gold bullion coins I liked.

However, If they did mess with the other specifications of the sovereign (size, weight, shape etc) I'd almost certainly buy one for the collection.  But it would be a very bad decision from the RM in my opinion.

[paulmerton]

Going forwards, I see no harm in adding some kind of security feature at some point. It would be beneficial to everyone and doesn't necessarily have to detract from the classic design.

Perhaps that's why they're asking about 12-sided coins, which is one of the features of the current circulating pound coin, although I don't think that's the way to go.

I do like the idea of a holographic latent image being added to the classic design, maybe also a laser etched QR code that uniquely identifies the coin as well as showing when it was made.

I know some people on here will baulk at the idea of uniquely identifiable coins, but some countries have already done it and I like it.

A latent image would also work well on a bullion sovereign, as it is likely to stay fairly intact as they no longer circulate.

What do you think Lawrence?!

 

[Petra]

Latent image/ holographic etc. sure they could adapt one of the sovereigns features to incorporate something so as there is higher level of security without altering what is probably the most iconic and identifiable coin out there?

But .. is it really necessary? 

 

[SilverJacks]

39 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

However, If they did mess with the other specifications of the sovereign (size, weight, shape etc) I'd almost certainly buy one for the collection.  But it would be a very bad decision from the RM in my opinion.

This is a good point. We wouldn't like it, but who's gonna refuse to buy one of their crazy-idea sovereigns?

12 minutes ago, paulmerton said:

Going forwards, I see no harm in adding some kind of security feature at some point. It would be beneficial to everyone and doesn't necessarily have to detract from the classic design.

That's what I said in the survey. I like the features on the Britannia. If they could add one of them to the bullion sovereign, it might work. But they'd have to change the coin as little as possible. Micro-lettering or something subtle.

 

 

[Agaupl]

Security features will definitely evolve.. and as long as the basic coin isn’t detracted from I don’t think many will complain at that. The coin itself being a security feature for gold currency…12 sides surely not though. And silver versions also would detract imho , despite there being precedence for it. 

[dicker]

I have said it before - I think there is mileage in hammered coins created by the RM.

I also think they would do well to sell coins via a lottery rather than a queue - perhaps not all but some.  

[paulmerton]

29 minutes ago, dicker said:

I have said it before - I think there is mileage in hammered coins created by the RM.

I also think they would do well to sell coins via a lottery rather than a queue - perhaps not all but some.  

I'd rather hammer my own "coin". They have some sort of facility for this but I think it's meant for kids!