Counterfeit sovereign

[thanasis]

Hello forum! 🖐️

It's been a long time since my last visit here and I 'm back again posting one more topic on (what else?) sovereigns.

Here is a listing of a sovereign on a well known website called catawiki.

URL: https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/65619887-australia-sovereign-1923-p-georg-v

Seeing St. George reminds me of Robocop...🤣

What do you think?

Cheers!

 

[Petra]

Quick glance… been bashed around whatever it is😮🤔

[Orpster]

Was left in the sun and the chocolate inside melted a bit

[Petra]

Hairs a bit off!🤔😮

[James32]

Think it's been mounted and cleaned, then hit with a hammer for the craic and possibly cast to begin with.

[CollectForFun]

Catawiki is gradually becoming the second eBay, as far as fake coin offers are concerned. They try to create an impression that the listings are checked by the experts, but I have personally reported 4-5 fake coins just in the previous few months and have serious doubts that their experts can really guarantee trouble-free listings. And some lots have not been even withdrawn after my reports!

If anyone was interested I can upload photos of some of the fakes their "experts" approved for sale. Some were absolutely laughable, if you know what to look at.

Regarding this sovereign, it does look a bit weird. The seller however regularly sells a lot of authentic gold coins and bullion so in his case I would say he's no scammer but genuinely someone who just got fooled by this coin, if it's indeed counterfeit. But it looks like that - does it even have reeded edge?

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by CollectForFun

[ShineyMagpie]

Hmm I'm not an expert (or anything close to) but to my eyes it looks like a fake. 1)I thought the first thing to ware was top of the ear not the hair on this coin? 2) the "clean/deep definition on the front of the face looks off maybe lighting. 3) the lack of clarity on some of the text 4) the "overspill" on the top left of the 2nd picture makes it look cast 5) doesn't look to have milled edge (but may have been in a mount and warn). That's just  few of the issues I see be curious to hear other thoughts though. Helpful to know what to look for.

Maybe a others can offer opinions: @LawrenceChard @

[RDHC]

A few more details that look dodgy. The 'P' for Perth is slightly too much to the left of the hoof above it (our left), compared to the 1923 Perth sovereign shown on the Bullion by Post website, and its font is different, too. And there are suspicious lines outlining the horse's lower body and front legs.

[LawrenceChard]

11 hours ago, CollectForFun said:

If anyone was interested I can upload photos of some of the fakes their "experts" approved for sale. Some were absolutely laughable, if you know what to look at.

I am sure these would be more than interesting.

Links would also be good.

😎

[LawrenceChard]

15 hours ago, thanasis said:

Hello forum! 🖐️

It's been a long time since my last visit here and I 'm back again posting one more topic on (what else?) sovereigns.

Here is a listing of a sovereign on a well known website called catawiki.

URL: https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/65619887-australia-sovereign-1923-p-georg-v

Seeing St. George reminds me of Robocop...🤣

What do you think?

Cheers!

 

15 hours ago, Petra said:

Quick glance… been bashed around whatever it is😮🤔

10 hours ago, ShineyMagpie said:

Hmm I'm not an expert (or anything close to) but to my eyes it looks like a fake. 1)I thought the first thing to ware was top of the ear not the hair on this coin? 2) the "clean/deep definition on the front of the face looks off maybe lighting. 3) the lack of clarity on some of the text 4) the "overspill" on the top left of the 2nd picture makes it look cast 5) doesn't look to have milled edge (but may have been in a mount and warn). That's just  few of the issues I see be curious to hear other thoughts though. Helpful to know what to look for.

Maybe a others can offer opinions: @LawrenceChard @

At a first, and second look, I did not think it was a fake.

Sure, the photos are not great, and the lighting is too directional.

It just seems to have a lot of edge damage, as if it had been rolled under some pressure, in a similar manner to edge lettering being rolled onto coins, before collars came into use. Possibly hammered and knocked rather than rolled (I nearly put trolled).

1923-P is a scarce date / mint combo, but we would probably throw this into our grade "C" bin.

I might come to a different conclusion seeing and handling the actual coin.

Having said that, I took a third look, and noticed a few raised lines and pimples in the exergue, and the "9" of the date.

A Niton test would be interesting, but not necessarily conclusive.

😎

[Petra]

10 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

 

At a first, and second look, I did not think it was a fake.

Sure, the photos are not great, and the lighting is too directional.

It just seems to have a lot of edge damage, as if it had been rolled under some pressure, in a similar manner to edge lettering being rolled onto coins, before collars came into use. Possibly hammered and knocked rather than rolled (I nearly put trolled).

1923-P is a scarce date / mint combo, but we would probably throw this into our grade "C" bin.

I might come to a different conclusion seeing and handling the actual coin.

Having said that, I took a third look, and noticed a few raised lines and pimples in the exergue, and the "9" of the date.

A Niton test would be interesting, but not necessarily conclusive.

😎

🤔is that a yes it is or a no it’s ok then?🤔🫣

[LawrenceChard]

15 minutes ago, Petra said:

🤔is that a yes it is or a no it’s ok then?🤔🫣

It's exactly as I told it.

I certainly would not buy on the strength of the photos, rather the opposite.

As the edge is so obviously damaged, it is not good that the seller has failed to mention it.

You could try e-mailing the seller.

😎

[Petra]

4 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

It's exactly as I told it.

I certainly would not buy on the strength of the photos, rather the opposite.

As the edge is so obviously damaged, it is not good that the seller has failed to mention it.

You could try e-mailing the seller.

😎

🤔 at the end of the day there is nothing to beat having it in your hand to check it over properly 🤔🫣

[sovereignsteve]

Difficult to imagine how you could get a genuine sovereign into this state ie the edge and rim, under reasonable use. Even with moderate abuse.

Don't think there's any way being in a jewellery holder could have done it.

Could just be the photo lighting but the edges of all the relief details look too sharp and angular.

[LawrenceChard]

13 minutes ago, Petra said:

🤔 at the end of the day there is nothing to beat having it in your hand to check it over properly 🤔🫣

I can remember saying something very similar many times in the past, although under slightly different circumstances!

😎

[sovereignsteve]

1 minute ago, LawrenceChard said:

I can remember saying something very similar many times in the past, although under slightly different circumstances!

😎

Depends who you are saying it to😎

[ShineyMagpie]

Do like the description in the list though, condition= ungraded....while factual correct, may be an understatement!

[James32]

Just now, ShineyMagpie said:

Do like the description in the list though, condition= ungraded....while factual correct, may be an understatement!

Should read..upgradeable 

[ShineyMagpie]

3 minutes ago, James32 said:

Should read..upgradeable

Or un-gradable ? 😝

[James32]

7 minutes ago, ShineyMagpie said:

Or un-gradable ? 😝

That's what u wrote until auto-spell decided it's personality is better 😆 

[ShineyMagpie]

That's ok @James32, I nearly made the same blunder making my statement. I will not tell @LawrenceChard about your typos I know that's a touchy subject. I definitely will not mention you also wrote u instead of I above 😝

I'm quitting while I'm ahead, I make enough typo's.

[LawrenceChard]

29 minutes ago, ShineyMagpie said:

That's ok @James32, I nearly made the same blunder making my statement. I will not tell @LawrenceChard about your typos I know that's a touchy subject. I definitely will not mention you also wrote u instead of I above 😝

I'm quitting while I'm ahead, 

Like the Irish jockey?

😎

[Petra]

3 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

I can remember saying something very similar many times in the past, although under slightly different circumstances!

😎

Hope your wife gave you a good slap🤔😮😁

[LawrenceChard]

9 minutes ago, Petra said:

Hope your wife gave you a good slap🤔😮😁

She doesn't know!

😎