Royal Mint Upcoming Great Engravers 2022/23

[Paul]

So it's all agreed. Nobody knows, what is next in the series. We are really just speculating and guessing 

 My money is on a 'diversity built Britain ' crystal maze 50p reminting. Since the last was that  popular it didn't sell out, yet won most popular coin of the year allegedly in RM awards. 

 

[Britannia47]

It’s easy to be cynical about the RMs motives in producing this series of coins. I expect most members of TSF, myself included, rarely venture into the world before the modern 1817 sovereign in terms of the achievements of the engravers/medalists of the day. But it’s certainly interesting to hear about engravers other than Pistrucci and the Wyons.

 

 

 

[NewCoins]

14 hours ago, Paul said:

So it's all agreed. Nobody knows, what is next in the series. We are really just speculating and guessing 

 My money is on a 'diversity built Britain ' crystal maze 50p reminting. Since the last was that  popular it didn't sell out, yet won most popular coin of the year allegedly in RM awards. 

 

My money is on an even higher mintage than the gothic crown portrait.

And that my friends means there will be plenty for everyone who really wants one, one way or another.

[Paul]

6 minutes ago, NewCoins said:

My money is on an even higher mintage than the gothic crown portrait.

More than likely i think - might end up like just another RM release this Great Engravers series - now the Una/Graces/Gothic hype doesn't seem to be there so much, as society dont seem to have a receptacle to urinate into 

[Paul]

"Pistrucci - Waterloo Medal" could be a contender given the history & controversy behind it maybe?

Think we would all agree in gold will be something to behold 

• Waterloo Medal

The problem with Pistrucci was not just his fiery temperament and his bitterness at not being appointed Chief Engraver when, as he insisted, the post had been promised to him by William Wellesley Pole.

There was also the long-standing difficulty caused by a large commemorative medal for the Battle of Waterloo, officially commissioned from Pistrucci for presentation to, among others, the allied sovereigns who had been victorious in defeating Napoleon.

Pistrucci had conceived the medal on the grandest scale and his progress was slow – and deliberately so since he feared that, having put himself beyond the pale by his obstinate behaviour, the Royal Mint would sever its association with him as soon as he handed over the dies.

 

• Completion of the dies

The work dragged on and, having invested so much money in the ‘coming wonder’, successive Masters of the Mint felt obliged to encourage the argumentative and dilatory Pistrucci to complete the dies. Years passed and eventually, in 1849, Pistrucci was able to hand over the completed dies.

These unfortunately were so large that they could not be hardened and the outcome of a project that had begun 30 years before was that no medals could be struck.

The dies survive and undoubtedly represent a triumph of medallic art and a masterpiece of engraving skill.

With their completion Pistrucci’s association with the Royal Mint finally came to an end and he died at Englefield Green, near Windsor, in 1855.

Source: https://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/journal/people/benedetto-pistrucci/

[Paul]

It could also come out as two part set like last release so double bubble profits for the royal mint. 

[GoldStatue]

The battle of waterloo medal is a good shout, in my mind it would be a crying shame not to start with the George and Dragon broken spear if they were to do Pistrucci's work.

[NumismaticNI]

Whatever comes next, the waiting is deadful with the RM, a year between each release, it'll take years to complete a series, some may not at this rate. Look at the Music Legends also, started off 6months apart, we're not far off a year now and no word on these either. And no doubt it'll be some ridiculous release although it couldn't be much worse than the Who. Would be nice if we saw something this side of Christmas, would be nice to squeeze another Great Engravers before the end of year to finish with the Queen's last Effigy on the series. 

[tpcob303]

On 03/11/2022 at 17:33, GoldStatue said:

The battle of waterloo medal is a good shout, in my mind it would be a crying shame not to start with the George and Dragon broken spear if they were to do Pistrucci's work.

If they do, I hope they do a lower mintage than 2013 St George/Royal Birth Commemorative. The mintage was quite high and I would have like to have seen it with a lower mintage, but with a 5oz coin with that design would be exceptional.

[sovereignsteve]

Personally think this series is dead. They have ruined it by increasing the mintages and I suspect interest will quickly die, if it hasn't already. The Gothic Crown was a spectacular failure. People holding the Una should be worried, especially if they paid top dollar. The fact that it is the Una may save it to a certain degree but at the end of the day, it's not a real Una! I can't see it's value holding long term.

[Zhorro]

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

Personally think this series is dead. They have ruined it by increasing the mintages and I suspect interest will quickly die, if it hasn't already. The Gothic Crown was a spectacular failure. People holding the Una should be worried, especially if they paid top dollar. The fact that it is the Una may save it to a certain degree but at the end of the day, it's not a real Una! I can't see it's value holding long term.

I think the Gothic Crown was a great success - when it was launched.  People that wanted one were able to get them either from the Mint or at a high premium on the secondary market.  And this is one of the problems, if people that wanted one they already have one, and so the only way to generate sales is by reducing prices.  The other problem is that there are so many varieties of the coin - I think this does undermine the scarcity / desirability of the coin.

[NewCoins]

8 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Personally think this series is dead. They have ruined it by increasing the mintages and I suspect interest will quickly die, if it hasn't already. The Gothic Crown was a spectacular failure. People holding the Una should be worried, especially if they paid top dollar. The fact that it is the Una may save it to a certain degree but at the end of the day, it's not a real Una! I can't see it's value holding long term.

I do fear you might be right.

It is all about mintages/availability and of course the design.

Una was certainly a great coin. I love it. 

They should be bold and drop the mintages for the next one. Especially if it's a series that goes on for years.

Otherwise it's going to fade into nothingness as a series, with a few standouts.

I liked the gothic crown. I probably have too many. It could have have been much more special. For me, rarity and a good design makes a coin extra special.

I appreciate some people think that availability is a good thing. I didn't buy the first unlimited (until the end of year) charles coin for that reason. 

I dare say I wouldn't have bought an unlimited Una either, but due to the design I may have.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by NewCoins

[GoldDiggerDave]

I would like modern low mintage hammered gold coin. 

8 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Personally think this series is dead. They have ruined it by increasing the mintages and I suspect interest will quickly die, if it hasn't already. The Gothic Crown was a spectacular failure. People holding the Una should be worried, especially if they paid top dollar. The fact that it is the Una may save it to a certain degree but at the end of the day, it's not a real Una! I can't see it's value holding long term.

Agree if you have bought a 2oz gold Una at RRP then you are safe but paying almost 10X RRP is another matter.

Everyone over compensated with the 3 Graces, and the Gothic got smacked with the pull back, gutting really as it’s the best coin of the series IMO the RM rollout was far from great.

 

[sovereignsteve]

The mint should try to match availability at launch to demand. This enables almost everyone who wants one to buy at retail and ensures the flippers will not make a killing. Mintages need to be low enough so that the secondary market isn't flooded and prices crash to below release. Collectors want some kind of supply restriction so that the value of their holdings doesn't fall below what they paid. Even strict collectors want their collections to keep value at worse and increase in value ideally.

The Una did not sell out immediately by any means, so in my book, the mintage and price were probably correct. The problem was, suddenly everyone jumped on the coin for the design and the prices shot up. I'm not sure where they have dropped back to now but when the 2oz gold started selling for £50k the Mint jumped at the next opportunity to grab some of the profits with the Three Graces. They clearly overdid it and the signs were there that demand for this series was going to go south from there on.

The trouble is the Una design is so iconic and the real thing is so rare and expensive that very few can afford to own on. People aquired the 2 oz gold as an affordable substitute so prices went silly. I doubt they will hold long term.

[Paul]

4 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

The mint should try to match availability at launch to demand. This enables almost everyone who wants one to buy at retail and ensures the flippers will not make a killing. Mintages need to be low enough so that the secondary market isn't flooded and prices crash to below release. Collectors want some kind of supply restriction so that the value of their holdings doesn't fall below what they paid. Even strict collectors want their collections to keep value at worse and increase in value ideally.

The Una did not sell out immediately by any means, so in my book, the mintage and price were probably correct. The problem was, suddenly everyone jumped on the coin for the design and the prices shot up. I'm not sure where they have dropped back to now but when the 2oz gold started selling for £50k the Mint jumped at the next opportunity to grab some of the profits with the Three Graces. They clearly overdid it and the signs were there that demand for this series was going to go south from there on.

The trouble is the Una design is so iconic and the real thing is so rare and expensive that very few can afford to own on. People acquired the 2 oz gold as an affordable substitute so prices went silly. I doubt they will hold long term.

One in St James sale Dec 7

https://bsjauctions.auctionmobility.com/auctions/1-6OPMKE/st-jamess-auctions-auction-70?sort=high_estimate_desc&limit=36

Last one they had sold for, in PF69 

https://bsjauctions.auctionmobility.com/lots/view/1-6AUASX/the-royal-berkshire-sovereign-and-great-engravers-collection-part-ii

Sold hammered for £27,000 +20% BP + VAT at tail end of Sept

@Frenchie

[Paul]

9 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

The mint should try to match availability at launch to demand. This enables almost everyone who wants one to buy at retail and ensures the flippers will not make a killing. Mintages need to be low enough so that the secondary market isn't flooded and prices crash to below release. Collectors want some kind of supply restriction so that the value of their holdings doesn't fall below what they paid. Even strict collectors want their collections to keep value at worse and increase in value ideally.

The Una did not sell out immediately by any means, so in my book, the mintage and price were probably correct. The problem was, suddenly everyone jumped on the coin for the design and the prices shot up. I'm not sure where they have dropped back to now but when the 2oz gold started selling for £50k the Mint jumped at the next opportunity to grab some of the profits with the Three Graces. They clearly overdid it and the signs were there that demand for this series was going to go south from there on.

The trouble is the Una design is so iconic and the real thing is so rare and expensive that very few can afford to own on. People acquired the 2 oz gold as an affordable substitute so prices went silly. I doubt they will hold long term.

also worthy to consider, away from coin market what the economy & general outlook on life was like them when we have gone through the price uplift madness 

Record low borrowing rates, house market at all time highs, mega Crypto profits floating around, record stock market rises/profits , COVID bounceback loans & furlough money in abundance in later stages

All these profits/free extra money/super cheap borrowing - always finds another home in "something" of value

Luxury Rolex market did similar thing and is softening now just like the coin market is 

[Britannia47]

Thought it might be interesting to revive this topic/discussion from last November for those interested in Simons petition crown out this Thursday, for background information……

[ak74]

5 hours ago, Britannia47 said:

Thought it might be interesting to revive this topic/discussion from last November for those interested in Simons petition crown out this Thursday, for background information……

Here the discussion has been quite active for some time already:  

 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by ak74