Jump to content
  • The above Banner is a Sponsored Banner.

    Upgrade to Premium Membership to remove this Banner & All Google Ads. For full list of Premium Member benefits Click HERE.

  • Join The Silver Forum

    The Silver Forum is one of the largest and best loved silver and gold precious metals forums in the world, established since 2014. Join today for FREE! Browse the sponsor's topics (hidden to guests) for special deals and offers, check out the bargains in the members trade section and join in with our community reacting and commenting on topic posts. If you have any questions whatsoever about precious metals collecting and investing please join and start a topic and we will be here to help with our knowledge :) happy stacking/collecting. 21,000+ forum members and 1 million+ forum posts. For the latest up to date stats please see the stats in the right sidebar when browsing from desktop. Sign up for FREE to view the forum with reduced ads. 

1914S half sovereign - genuine or fake


Booky586

Recommended Posts

Can you please help with a recently purchased 1914 Sydney mint half sovereign?

When it arrived it looked like a very nice purchase but a closer inspection raised my doubts. Firstly, the diameter measures at 19.7mm compared to the specification of 19.3mm, 0.4mm oversize. I've taken a photo of the coin so you can have a good look at it. There's a bit of detail missing from the reverse. Take a look at the ground where the dragons forearms and claws disappearing into the field, no dots in the initials B.P. etc.

So what do you think? A weakly struck oversize coin or is it a very good fake?

image.thumb.jpeg.ebcd353f8c0ac483dcdfcf060cbcce9b.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Booky586 said:

Can you please help with a recently purchased 1914 Sydney mint half sovereign?

When it arrived it looked like a very nice purchase but a closer inspection raised my doubts. Firstly, the diameter measures at 19.7mm compared to the specification of 19.3mm, 0.4mm oversize. I've taken a photo of the coin so you can have a good look at it. There's a bit of detail missing from the reverse. Take a look at the ground where the dragons forearms and claws disappearing into the field, no dots in the initials B.P. etc.

So what do you think? A weakly struck oversize coin or is it a very good fake?

 

Is the weight correct?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Booky586 said:

Yes, the weight is correct, it's 3.99/4.00g. Thickness across the edge is 1.2mm. I've tested the specific gravity and it's came out at 17.28, which equates to about 21-21.5ct.

Your "discrepancy" is less than half a millimetre - I think very few people would / could measure to this accuracy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole right hand side looks weak in general, no dots by initials BP ,but P is nearly non existent also ( without wear to the edge)

Focus on the fields, are these not almost always blotchy on fakes?( yours appears smooth) not to mention St george usually has organs missing on the fakes😃

The dates seem pretty identical also.

How accurate were they on size over a hundred years ago 🤔 

I like to buy the pre-dip dip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree with @GoldDiggerDave on the weak strikes.

The diameter is a bit odd along with...

- The striations around the rim - not sure what has gone on here

- The odd cracks - one through the ear of King George

- The other more prominent one through St Georges cape

 

Best

Dicker

Not my circus, not my monkeys

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 30/06/2022 at 15:58, Booky586 said:

Can you please help with a recently purchased 1914 Sydney mint half sovereign?

When it arrived it looked like a very nice purchase but a closer inspection raised my doubts. Firstly, the diameter measures at 19.7mm compared to the specification of 19.3mm, 0.4mm oversize. I've taken a photo of the coin so you can have a good look at it. There's a bit of detail missing from the reverse. Take a look at the ground where the dragons forearms and claws disappearing into the field, no dots in the initials B.P. etc.

So what do you think? A weakly struck oversize coin or is it a very good fake?

image.thumb.jpeg.ebcd353f8c0ac483dcdfcf060cbcce9b.jpeg

Those are better photos.

I previously said:

"I think you mean 1914-S!

Looks OK to me, but would be easier with a better photo.

I suggest put it on a public forum, but other people might also be able to help, or learn.

😎

So, with the better photos, it still looks OK.

I have never done any rigorous comparison of diameters.

You may be worried about the "orange peel" or radiating flow lines near the edges, but I see this on many bullion sovereigns. It does make me take a closer look, but I still think your coin is alright.

The weak B.P. or B P is interesting, but probably not sinister.

 

Edited by LawrenceChard

Chards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can understand your concern as diameter is generally very tightly specified and oversize would point to a fake usually to make the correct weight.
However your specific gravity measurement, a trickier measurement to make at home, does suggest 22ct or very close to 22ct gold.
Your SG is about 3% low but within home experimental tolerances I reckon.
Rim thickness is not a good indication as rims can be extruded; average centre thickness needs to be around 0.99mm.

This would trade as a half sovereign to any dealer so its value is not in question but if it was mine I would replace unless there is some specific reason to hold onto this coin. It is a common coin with no special value so get it swapped and sleep at night but don't sell it on the S.F.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Booky586 said:

Can you please help with a recently purchased 1914 Sydney mint half sovereign?

When it arrived it looked like a very nice purchase but a closer inspection raised my doubts. Firstly, the diameter measures at 19.7mm compared to the specification of 19.3mm, 0.4mm oversize. I've taken a photo of the coin so you can have a good look at it. There's a bit of detail missing from the reverse. Take a look at the ground where the dragons forearms and claws disappearing into the field, no dots in the initials B.P. etc.

So what do you think? A weakly struck oversize coin or is it a very good fake?

image.thumb.jpeg.ebcd353f8c0ac483dcdfcf060cbcce9b.jpeg

If you want to see an obvious fake (sovereign), take a look at this:

😎

Chards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

I can understand your concern as diameter is generally very tightly specified and oversize would point to a fake usually to make the correct weight.
However your specific gravity measurement, a trickier measurement to make at home, does suggest 22ct or very close to 22ct gold.
Your SG is about 3% low but within home experimental tolerances I reckon.
Rim thickness is not a good indication as rims can be extruded; average centre thickness needs to be around 0.99mm.

This would trade as a half sovereign to any dealer so its value is not in question but if it was mine I would replace unless there is some specific reason to hold onto this coin. It is a common coin with no special value so get it swapped and sleep at night but don't sell it on the S.F.

I think it is worth keeping, as almost all mintmarked half sovereigns are scarce, and particularly so in higher grades.

😎

Chards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it is a fake its very good, none of the 'bubbling', the 1917 fakes tend to have and nothing jumps out in any of the details, the hand a bit maybe but not enough to be really concerning

I have seen a lot of sovereigns where the dots in the B.P. and the details around the broken lance look to have worn.  Don't think I would be concerned and Aussie half's from that era are quite sought after.

The crack gives it character, well for me lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought I'd written about the very same problem I had once, but I can't find it so will continue....

I had issues with two 1912 George V 'S' half sovereigns, the coins looked fine until I tried to put them into capsules- they were too big in diameter and wouldn't fit.

I can't recall the measurements now, but I think I'd got the same figures as you. I put them in the 'fakes' box.

Later, I was in London and popped into HGM to sell some scrap jewellery. I took my 'fakes' with me and, with full disclosure, asked the chap to kindly test them for me. He wandered off into the backroom and, when he returned, declared them genuine and offered to buy them.

If they're genuine, I thought, I may as well keep them, so I did/have.

Even if they are fakes, they are still worth their weight so I've nothing to lose but I won't be selling them privately.

12.JPG.00ca3853737d87278789eaab670a8a8e.JPG 12obv.thumb.JPG.0154333614404034cd8e957b25476c32.JPG

Edited by Roy
added some low res pics!

Technically, alcohol is a solution..

'It [socialism] poses a growing threat, however unintentional, to the freedom of this country, for there is no freedom where the State totally controls the economy. Personal freedom and economic freedom are indivisible. You can’t have one without the other. You can’t lose one without losing the other.'

"There is no such thing as public money, there is only taxpayers' money"

Let not England forget her precedence of teaching nations how to live, and It's  Britannia, with one t and two n's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one is of the opinion it's fake, which I'm really pleased with. It's a keeper as it's a nice coin with some character (oversized, die cracks, etc.). To be honest I've seen die cracks in Victorian sovereigns but never one this new.

I've been searching the internet looking for other 1914-S halves with no dots in B.P. and this appeared, with thanks to @drakesterling for the use of his very good photo (source: https://www.drakesterling.com/sold-coins/half-sovereigns/1914-sydney-half-sovereign-2-3-4-5-6). Coincidently it has a weak strike, no dots in B.P. and a die crack in it's early stages on the cloak in the same position. This looks like a die match to me and again backs up the coins authenticity:

image.thumb.jpeg.0f21d0e2d1b8224bf58eebaf4c208e82.jpeg

Here's a close up on the cloak die crack, side by side:

image.jpeg.3bc2395e8af866e7d0238b10fcff0377.jpeg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The oversize diameter of 19.7mm is still bothering me. So much so that I've done a serration count as a reference check only to discover I don't have a reference to check against!

Does anyone know if there is a standard number of serrations on a half sovereign of this type? I get 100 serrations:

image.thumb.jpeg.a5093ccb2875cad2b8a924d6d5be5a9a.jpeg

Edited by Booky586
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Cookies & terms of service

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. By continuing to use this site you consent to the use of cookies and to our Privacy Policy & Terms of Use