1oz Silver Eagles vs the rest, why the premium?

[CageFree]

Why on earth are the 2021 1 oz silver eagles $37 dollars, while 2021 philharmonics or britannias are $27 at that same dealer? Why is the market willing to pay up so much for an eagle vs the rest of of the group? I am a total loss to understand the pricing dynamics here, because in either case it's just a 1oz silver government minted coin, so what gives?!

Edited August 23, 2021 by CageFree

[Lr103]

I personally think this has to do with the change over in design this year. Eagles tend to have a higher premium to begin with, and this year many buyers seems to be loading up on the “last year of design” and “first year of design” coins. 

I’m not one of them (except for a single coin of each I purchased 🙂), and I like other coins more given the premiums. However the dealers wouldn’t charge these premiums unless the buyers were buying, so I think it’s just supply and demand.  

Edited August 23, 2021 by Lr103

[SilverJacks]

Is US Mint production currently lower than others? Idk...

[CollectorNo1]

The ASE is the most recognised silver bullion coin in the world and backed by the biggest government in the world. When the spot price of silver went to $28-29 and touched $30 for a short time the premiums shot up and have stayed there despite the spot price coming down. Also this year all the news on the silver shortage,silver squeeze etc.... dealers holding back stock and telling their customers they couldn't get their hands on American eagles for love nor money the premiums kept going up and the reason I think its stayed there is greed!!

But I will also say premiums on all bullion coins Eagles,Britannias,Maples,Philharmonics blah blah blah... are all too high in my opinion,but if you shop around you can pick up Eagles for around £31-32

Of course this is just speculation and you can take it with a pinch of salt.

I'm guessing there is some kind of manipulation going on at some level.but will we ever know? I doubt it.Hopefully premiums will come down but not holding my breath...we all know whether it's the Mints of the world,bullion dealers or your local coin shop...their motto is " buy low sell high)😄😄😄

[Bigmarc]

I recently tried selling Ase here (in the UK) and cheekily tried to put a little premium because of all the silver shortage and squeezing hype going on. It didn't work, still ended up selling the same as kooks, maples and Philis. Britt's tho seemed to do a lot better and sold quickly. So my conclusion it's all down to you own government mints. It was a great learning curve for me moving forward.

[metallica73]

When I first started stacking 10 years ago Brits & Pandas were the coins with the highest premiums and ASE's one of the cheaper ones. Amazing how trends can change over time.

[modofantasma]

14 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

I recently tried selling Ase here (in the UK) and cheekily tried to put a little premium because of all the silver shortage and squeezing hype going on. It didn't work, still ended up selling the same as kooks, maples and Philis. Britt's tho seemed to do a lot better and sold quickly. So my conclusion it's all down to you own government mints. It was a great learning curve for me moving forward.

I'd agree. The ase tend to be advertised at higher premiums in Europe and UK but my local bullion dealer would rather take brits and doesn't see us coins as better they're just bullion.

 

I think your local mints going to be the best bet and easiest to sell (eg ase if you're US based, kangaroos in Aussie, Brits in UK) 

Certainly worth considering the buy price though. I've not bought many bullion coins this year due to premiums

[CollectorNo1]

18 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

I recently tried selling Ase here (in the UK) and cheekily tried to put a little premium because of all the silver shortage and squeezing hype going on. It didn't work, still ended up selling the same as kooks, maples and Philis. Britt's tho seemed to do a lot better and sold quickly. So my conclusion it's all down to you own government mints. It was a great learning curve for me moving forward.

I buy Britannia's foremost..I think you always do better when it comes to liquidity to have the coins of the country you live in. I do buy from the Perth mint mainly because I do like the diversity of their coins and the quality control I believe is unrivaled. I've only bought 1 Ase and that was the WWII 75TH Anniversary silver proof with the privy mark...I like them but wouldn't buy or stack them..

[TommyTwoShots]

ASEs are just better. They are just more beautiful from a bigger more well recognised mint.

[CageFree]

Thanks all for your thoughts. My silver stash is all ASEs of different years, and now I am wondering if I should trade those out for something else, if the dealers will give me some of the spread between those coins.

I agree with you guys that the price wouldn't be where it is if enough people out there weren't paying it, but that's the head scratcher for me, as I don't understand what value the ASE brings over the others, despite redesigns and whatever other BS. It's not a $0.50 markup, it's a $10 markup for a freaking 1 oz government minted coin that isn't low mintage so not anything special. I'm just really confused by this market.

Going to be looking to offload my ASEs, probably into platinum or other silver coins, if I can setup the right trade. Just not feeling the ASE "magic" that the market seems to think is there in those coins Just seems overrated to me.

Edited August 23, 2021 by CageFree

[CollectorNo1]

You live in the states?...its the coin of your country..I'd hold on to them..why would you want to sell? I was advised some years ago to stack/collect the PM's of the country you live in as I said in my above comment..but doesn't mean you can't buy coins you like from other countries, I do....at the end of the day there will always be people to buy any coin from any country..

Regards

[SilverJacks]

1 hour ago, metallica73 said:

When I first started stacking 10 years ago Brits & Pandas were the coins with the highest premiums and ASE's one of the cheaper ones. Amazing how trends can change over time.

Only 12 months ago I bought  pre-owned ASEs from a dealer (BBP) and he wouldn't match the price for Brits, which were more expensive. His reason - he knew the Brits would sell quicker and therefor wanted a higher price for them...

[CollectorNo1]

4 minutes ago, SilverJacks said:

Only 12 months ago I bought  pre-owned ASEs from a dealer (BBP) and he wouldn't match the price for Brits, which were more expensive. His reason - he knew the Brits would sell quicker and therefor wanted a higher price for them...

You will find that in every country I'm afraid..😒

[metallica73]

Yeah!

I'd always buy the coin of your country first if the premiums were no worse than any other coin but from viewing a few US youtube videos it seems with the premiums over there that you would get 10oz of Brits and 9oz ASE's for the same price.

Is there anywhere which has tracked premiums over a period of say 5-10 years? Would be very interesting to see.  $13 premium is crazy, it always used to be $3-4 over spot.

[SilverJacks]

Just now, CollectorNo1 said:

You will find that in every country I'm afraid..😒

I would generally agree, but if I spoke to that same guy today, I bet he wouldn't be selling the eagles cheaper again. I'd be keen to hear his reasons as to why the Brits are currently cheaper. Maybe this time he'd know the ASEs will sell quicker...

 

Currently, you can get new Brits cheaper than pre-owned ASEs...

 

 

[metallica73]

Honestly think if I was in the US and had stacked a decent quantity of ASE's now would be the time to offload them. You could probably turn 500oz's into 550oz by buying Brits or Phils.

[CollectorNo1]

4 minutes ago, metallica73 said:

Yeah!

I'd always buy the coin of your country first if the premiums were no worse than any other coin but from viewing a few US youtube videos it seems with the premiums over there that you would get 10oz of Brits and 9oz ASE's for the same price.

Is there anywhere which has tracked premiums over a period of say 5-10 years? Would be very interesting to see.  $13 premium is crazy, it always used to be $3-4 over spot.

Maybe the phrase has now reversed...a case of 'demand and supply'. The interest in coin collecting,stacking,investing In precious metals appears to be getting more popular...with the media of YouTube videos,forums,word of mouth and fleabay the word is getting around and people are now thinking of different avenues to invest their money....PM's are catching on as a way of storing wealth..lets face it we are not going to get rich putting our fiat in our savings accounts now...

 

[Bigmarc]

16 minutes ago, SilverJacks said:

Currently, you can get new Brits cheaper than pre-owned ASEs.

Just been on their website. All the pre owned bits are crazy prices.

[CageFree]

1 hour ago, CollectorNo1 said:

You live in the states?...its the coin of your country..I'd hold on to them..why would you want to sell? I was advised some years ago to stack/collect the PM's of the country you live in as I said in my above comment..but doesn't mean you can't buy coins you like from other countries, I do....at the end of the day there will always be people to buy any coin from any country..

Regards

Well that's just it, your last sentence is the answer to your question. Yes, I do live in the states and yes the ASE is the preferred coin here, so what premium do you put on that vs exactly the same item just from a mint of a different country?! 50cents? $1? I was ok with the small premiums for ASEs when i first bought my ASEs. But today, that premium is $10!!! And you said this yourself:

".at the end of the day there will always be people to buy any coin from any country.."

So as metallica73 put it, why would I not trade in my ASEs for a significantly larger number of foreign minted 1oz silver, if the current ASE market seem so badly distorted?! Over the long term, I see those ASE premiums coming back down to the historic norms. There will not be a shortage of ASEs for ever. 

 

[stefffana]

1 hour ago, CollectorNo1 said:

You live in the states?...its the coin of your country..I'd hold on to them..why would you want to sell? I was advised some years ago to stack/collect the PM's of the country you live in as I said in my above comment..but doesn't mean you can't buy coins you like from other countries, I do....at the end of the day there will always be people to buy any coin from any country..

Regards

He can sell his ASE and buy bullion Buffalo cheaper. Finally, his stack of silver will increase with a minimum of 20%, only speculating a good moment. And Buffalo is well recognised in US.

[MonkeysUncle]

My brain says if you can offload the eagle, buy an oz of something else and pocket a good few $ whilst at it then go for it!

It all melts down the same...

[MetalMandible]

The premiums are indeed somewhat out of hand on ASE in particular...

Still went ahead and bought a tube on the dip this past weekend, for $592.XX  Thats $6 and change per oz over spot for BU coins.

Worth it imo, with such a high degree of uncertainty in the world, the ASE carries mass recognition and appeal.  Also with the unfortunate design change, my guess is that the premiums on the classic design is less likely to ever return to what it once was.

[Bigmarc]

1 hour ago, CageFree said:

Well that's just it, your last sentence is the answer to your question. Yes, I do live in the states and yes the ASE is the preferred coin here, so what premium do you put on that vs exactly the same item just from a mint of a different country?! 50cents? $1? I was ok with the small premiums for ASEs when i first bought my ASEs. But today, that premium is $10!!! And you said this yourself:

".at the end of the day there will always be people to buy any coin from any country.."

So as metallica73 put it, why would I not trade in my ASEs for a significantly larger number of foreign minted 1oz silver, if the current ASE market seem so badly distorted?! Over the long term, I see those ASE premiums coming back down to the historic norms. There will not be a shortage of ASEs for ever. 

 

I recently went through the same process. I sold off half of my stack and went for a vaulted possition at 1.5%. my plan is to buy back when premiums drop or quickly liquidate if the £100 per Oz comes in as promised by 90% of YouTubers. It was also good experience of selling. No use collecting all these shiny bits if you can't sell them.

[Arcadian]

Silver is heavy so local mints will always have lower transport costs.  Perth mint has to get it's coins and bars halfway around the world to the UK, so it's not surprising they are more expensive compared with spot price, coins from the US mint face the same problem in Europe.  I'd look at bars if all I was interested in was bullion, but then I'd face potential cgt costs at sale time.  You can't win.

[CollectorNo1]

I can understand everyone's view on this topic...You have to do what you feel is best for you at the time. With bullion bars,yes the premiums are lower but not as desirable for most as coins... and bars are always more difficult to sell...mainly because they are much  easier to fake  than bullion coins and don't hold the appeal of coins. 

Regarding the Perth mint and their bullion,the premiums are always going to be high not because of the distance but because of their very low mintages which makes them more collectable and sought after..